ADSL2...a big con job.

**z80** · 02-09-08, 10:19 PM

Have now had three installations where the upgrade

to ADSL2 from ADSL1 has been of negligible benefit.

I thought I would setup a little trap for the indian techos at optus on this one.

This time I left the existing adsl1 service live till I was happy with the adsl2.

Here are the pics from a direct comnparison.

Same cable,same modems,same pc...a perfect test.

3 kilometres from exchange.....not too far I think.

ADSL1 with ozonline using telstra infrastructure shits all over adsl2 .

have a look at the two line speeds as reported by the modem...

BIG difference on ADSL1...

There are no telephony devices on the line...no filters...nothing at all.

Just the two modems.

**LeroyPatrol** · 02-09-08, 10:27 PM

Originally Posted by z80

Have now had three installations where the upgrade

to ADSL2 from ADSL1 has been of negligible benefit.

I thought I would setup a little trap for the indian techos at optus on this one.

This time I left the existing adsl1 service live till I was happy with the adsl2.

Here are the pics from a direct comnparison.

Same cable,same modems,same pc...a perfect test.

3 kilometres from exchange.....not too far I think.

ADSL1 with ozonline using telstra infrastructure shits all over adsl2 .

have a look at the two line speeds as reported by the modem...

BIG difference on ADSL1...

There are no telephony devices on the line...no filters...nothing at all.

Just the two modems.

I see no diff the pics are the same. I think you will find 3kms is considered the extreme reliable distance from an exchange .

Leroy

**viewer** · 02-09-08, 10:39 PM

I think you posted 2 the same z.
I am on adsl 1,on 1500/ 256.When I did a theoretical test on adsl2, via it indicated my speed would still be 1500 on adsl, albeit, the cable length to home was nearly 4 km. The only win for me wud be a drop from 49 per month to 39 via tpg. speed wud not be better....us bushies find it hard to gain good speeds.

**fandtm666** · 02-09-08, 10:41 PM

at 3k and that line attenuation you are only going to get a max of about 8000 similar to the max adsl1

Less than 1km should be 23-24Mbit
1.0km = 13.81dB = 23Mbit
1.5km = 20.7dB = 21Mbit
2.0km = 27.6dB = 18Mbit
2.5km = 34.5dB = 13Mbit
3.0km = 41.4dB = 8Mbit
3.5km = 48.3dB = 6Mbit
4.0km = 56dB = 4Mbit
4.5km = 62.1dB = 3Mbit
5.0km = 69dB = 2Mbit

**gado** · 02-09-08, 10:45 PM

Looks like you might have to move out of the bush Zed.

**RHCP** · 02-09-08, 10:46 PM

I beg to differ lol

The funny thing is, when it was connected i didn't realise you have to select your connection mode through the isp (adam), so i was only connecting using G.dmt aka normal adsl 1, so i was only getting the max adsl1 speed of 8,000 - this was still 5 or 6x faster than my old adsl1 speed - so i never really thought much of it lol. Perhaps you have a similar situation?

Cheers, RHCP.

**intelliGEORGE** · 02-09-08, 11:49 PM

Originally Posted by fandtm666

at 3k and that line attenuation you are only going to get a max of about 8000 similar to the max adsl1

Less than 1km should be 23-24Mbit
1.0km = 13.81dB = 23Mbit

That's me, I can spit on my exchange from out the window of my unit.

**z80** · 03-09-08, 02:17 AM

aghh...shit, posted the same jpeg twice.

Anyways, looks like in this case ADSL1 with an 8m connection is faster.

Unfortunately with the inverse square law...most customers don't live close to the exchange.

ADSL2 is a piece of crap for most people is my assessment.

UPDATE:.....

Optus tech support reckon that the street has thin wires or some shit.

I must be real unlucky cause in geelong,adelaide, Clayton all have the same thin wire.

Might give Optus the flick for my customers...try telstra next time I think.

**oceanboy** · 03-09-08, 09:18 AM

Originally Posted by fandtm666

at 3k and that line attenuation you are only going to get a max of about 8000 similar to the max adsl1

Less than 1km should be 23-24Mbit
1.0km = 13.81dB = 23Mbit
1.5km = 20.7dB = 21Mbit
2.0km = 27.6dB = 18Mbit
2.5km = 34.5dB = 13Mbit
3.0km = 41.4dB = 8Mbit
3.5km = 48.3dB = 6Mbit
4.0km = 56dB = 4Mbit
4.5km = 62.1dB = 3Mbit
5.0km = 69dB = 2Mbit

Great info fandt. That explains a lot to me. I can only get ADSL1 here, and i guess i'm 2.5k's to the exchange. I get the full 8meg, but can see not much benefit in going to ADSL2.... only that its cheaper.

**fandtm666** · 03-09-08, 09:27 AM

apart from the distance from the exchange several other issues come into play as well.

1: the quality of the properties lines
2: the modem being used
3: whether a central filter/splitter is installed

I will use my own property as an example.

Last year i went to the 8000/386 connection and my speeds sucked big time, so then i took to do some testing with various different modems and found that depending on which modem i used the line attenuation was different on all and huge differences.

so initially i had a throughput of about 4000 i then

1: had a separate new line installed from telstra's point of entry to the house into my office

2: installed a commercial central filter/spliter

3: bought a billion 7402vgp ( now a dynalink rta1025w)

my throughput went from 4000 to the max of 8000 and the line attenuation went from mid to high 30's to 23

**oceanboy** · 03-09-08, 09:51 AM

Mmmmmm good info again fandt. Nothing beats a good real world test.

That is what amazes me that i get the full 8meg here, as i know for a fact that the lines that run up my street have been duplexed by Telstra as they ran out of spare pairs years ago. Plus my own house internal phone wiring is pretty busy... juntions, multiple outlets, basic match box filter, cheap Netgear WiFi Modem..... yet i can download at 3 x 280kb/s and surf all at the same time with no problems at all.
So i am pretty happy.... case of if it ain't broken, don't fix it for me

**LeroyPatrol** · 03-09-08, 10:08 AM

Originally Posted by fandtm666

apart from the distance from the exchange several other issues come into play as well.

1: the quality of the properties lines
2: the modem being used
3: whether a central filter/splitter is installed

I will use my own property as an example.

Last year i went to the 8000/386 connection and my speeds sucked big time, so then i took to do some testing with various different modems and found that depending on which modem i used the line attenuation was different on all and huge differences.

so initially i had a throughput of about 4000 i then

1: had a separate new line installed from telstra's point of entry to the house into my office

2: installed a commercial central filter/spliter

3: bought a billion 7402vgp ( now a dynalink rta1025w)

my throughput went from 4000 to the max of 8000 and the line attenuation went from mid to high 30's to 23

My boss gave me a Cisco 800 to try out and said there was a very noticeable difference it response and browsing speeds on websites. The box has been sitting here for a few days and I was a little skeptical but you have convinced me now to give it a go.

Leroy

**oceanboy** · 03-09-08, 10:14 AM

You might be onto to something there, getting a little off z80s topic of ADSL2.
But when my browsing has slowed, i have done all the usual things, cleaned PC and cache etc.... Not much difference, but when i powered down and restarted my modem/router, everything flys again.

So it stands to reason some modems are better than others i guess, or at least in the way they handle all the traffic perhaps?

**DND** · 03-09-08, 10:38 AM

I'm @ around 2.5 -3k's from the exchange with a Billion 7300G

Test run on 03/09/2008 @ 08:31 AM

Mirror: TPG
Data: 3 MB
Test Time: 3 secs

Your line speed is 8.17 Mbps (8174 kbps).
Your download speed is 1022 KB/s (1 MB/s).

**RHCP** · 03-09-08, 11:22 AM

Originally Posted by oceanboy

You might be onto to something there, getting a little off z80s topic of ADSL2.
But when my browsing has slowed, i have done all the usual things, cleaned PC and cache etc.... Not much difference, but when i powered down and restarted my modem/router, everything flys again.

So it stands to reason some modems are better than others i guess, or at least in the way they handle all the traffic perhaps?

Do you use torrents? I found with my old Billion bipac that this happens after a few weeks to a month; before the net gets slow, you can no longer log into the router (unless you reset it). Bitcomet was really bad for it, utorrent not so - i believe it's to do with the modem having to make heaps of connections (for torrents) and a form of memory leakage existing and well eventually it just becomes senile. It still happens even without using torrents, but it takes ages.

If using the same gear, and the isp's dsl2+ network is up-to-scratch, i don't see how it's possible to get slower than adsl speeds....after all, you can just select adsl1 connection method.

I didn't think any tech would use optus. Charging for uploads is a crime....and it's dangerous with noobs. A workmate of my mums had to pay 1000$ and something as their children were torrenting and they left it running.

Cheers, RHCP.

PS. my connection speed is actually about 16000 kbs, i guess firefox or my isp must cache some of the speedtest.

**oceanboy** · 03-09-08, 11:34 AM

Thanks RHCP, yes i have heard that about the Billion, in fact i bought one off a guy because of that exact reason

But i never use torrents myself, just RS links mainly.

When you think that most modems sold for the domestic home user are just toys built to a price, it would be interesting to see what a more serious bit of commercial gear would do over time?

Just as Leroy is going to try. I have been offered some very expensive Cisco gear over the years.... never bought any, but i have always wondered if there was any advantage??

**ssrattus** · 03-09-08, 12:01 PM

Last month's PCAuthority had some advice

note the first item... electrical noise from tired TVs, setop box's power supplies etc

**oceanboy** · 03-09-08, 12:22 PM

Very interesting ssrattus.... Thats is, i'm surfing the net with my monitor off from now on

Would of been nice if they explained in detail how electric noise degraded your ADSL though...... and from a distance of 200m??

**martymoose** · 07-09-08, 12:52 PM

Originally Posted by z80

aghh...shit, posted the same jpeg twice.

Anyways, looks like in this case ADSL1 with an 8m connection is faster.

Unfortunately with the inverse square law...most customers don't live close to the exchange.

ADSL2 is a piece of crap for most people is my assessment.

UPDATE:.....

Optus tech support reckon that the street has thin wires or some shit.

I must be real unlucky cause in geelong,adelaide, Clayton all have the same thin wire.

Might give Optus the flick for my customers...try telstra next time I think.

i had the same prob at old house
my luck was the local gov had a busted water pipe
and ripped up the cable
the person who built the easate used cheap cable
i cut a bit up and had a look
was that shitty china stuff you get on phones
a single strand wrapped around cotton the stuff you carnt solder
the replaced to whole street with pure copper and whammo everybodys internet problems stopped in street
now moved and have a brand new rim next door so only good for adsl1

**z1gg33** · 07-09-08, 02:38 PM

I guess sometimes it all depends on what you use your connection for...

I will NEVER argue that speed is not important as that would be plain silly (always the faster the better hands down!!)

I would like to say, I am on a very very old plan does not exist has not for years, its an unlimited account no shaping etc etc, it might not be the quickest , but I'll do 75gig a month still (if I choose) where as some of the other faster plans especially adsl2 is a 50gig before shaping. I am not 100% upto speed on the best/larest plan from ISPS of late so some one might be able to correct me..

this is not including the "premium" plans that are >$100 a month but even then, I think this plan is on par with the amount...

edit: I would like to add, and its an old argument (which is based on population/size of country + other things) that australia has a p1ss poor infrastructure. compare to o/s, just as an example Japan has 11meg from the house @ $40aus a month unlimited and this is going back several years