acejas

Thanks for all the valuable info Global

I had an EB wagon running 120l tank

Now have an AUII wagon also running 120l Tank. I get 200kms more on the AU. Incredible difference.

All servos round here 72c but this little shell on the corner hasnt changed for a month!!! Filled up at 52.9c for $62 odd. Went from Gold Coast Sydney 850km plus another 180kms before I filled up again.

Yeah price suck, they say its realted to the asian gas market (singapore)

z80

@Sanity- You are perfectly justified in running on premium unleaded.

(cause there's no room for the 120L tank in the Z3 )

zzzzz

i have been converting motor cars and trucks to run on LPG since 1976 here in WA and am often asked about these things like poor consumpion or lack of power on gas. and find most service centres set everything up as per book serving requirements (but for petrol) seems that no one who services these gas powered vehicles take into account driver style what the vehicle is used for ie: local or long distance running stop start etc. settings should be made for lpg as primary fuel and petol as secondry..if you are not getting someware in the region of the same economy and power something is wrong with the settings..the thing i come across quite often is that the convertor or (and) mixers are to small to work properly and loose there economy due to not being able to keep up with reducing the liquid gas to vapour hense very dense gas is being supplied to the motor .(result poor economy) also spark plugs are very important and should be in the best condition you can get.poor spark results in backfires.by the way here in wa you get an extra $1000.00 besides the $2000.00 from the state government thats a nice total of $3000
not being to cocky but here in wa gas licences are required and now be cocky my licence number is 13. issued in 1984.eight years after i started converting motors

global88

Good post zzzzz.
Here in vic you must be licenced also to install.
Many people dont go to an expert to adjust and maintain lpg system.
I tend to recomend people go to taxi gas experts for help when im lazy. They tend to be better at it than most standard installers imo.

dddp

converted my BA to SVI fuel LPG, wouldn't have bought a fullsize car if it wasn't running on gas - cost was $1300 out of my pocket and $3000 in subsidies 9 mths ago. Wth the driving i do i'd reckon i'd be paid back in about 18mths then i'm infront all the way.

After instal car ran OK but i could tell when i was on gas and when i was on petrol, car hadn't been tuned properly at instal, just a preloaded tune then autocalibration that the gas ecu itself does. Mentioned to the installer that i wasn't particularly happy with the end result and he recommended a dyno place in perth that does gas dynoing. Well, talk about chalk and cheese, after dynoing i can't tell which fuel i'm on, i have to look at the indicator lights to confirm. Powerwise there is 1kw difference with gas being 160rwkw and petrol 161rwkw. Put your boot into it now and you get pushed back in the seat no problems at all.

Another thing i've noticed is that there isn't the big difference in consumption you can get with petrol, driven hard on gas about 3l/100ks, with petrol you get a lot more than just 3l100 extra comsumption. I have also been able to get my best ever economy since dynoing 12.7l/100ks - not that that happens too often

I haven't mentioned the environmental thing tho, it was also a major consideration that i produce less C02 on LPG - this to me is equally important along with the economy of running on LPG.

Nick1969

Whats lubricating the valves ???
answer: nothing, theres no lead in petrol anymore to do it!
The reason you still run on fuel once a week is just to keep the injectors and pump working ...... Most systems start on petrol and switch to gas after a preset rpm or after first acceleration or deccelaration.

global88

The reason people run unleaded cars on petrol once a week is to use some fuel so it dont go stale. It forces you to put fresh fuel in every now and then. In the old days of unleaded it helped protect valve seats. Now they have flash lube.
Impco closed loop systems start on petrol as you mentioned so injecters get a work out regularly, specialy when engines cold.
Fuel tanks on efi duel fuel cars should always be kept over 1/4 tank because fuel pump is running and may overheat without fuel to cool it.

z80

I was thinking of inserting a 12volt relay on to the fuel changeover switch to switch off all fuel pumps when on gas....makes them last longer i think?

global88

I was told this by my installer. Its also in my impco owners/service manual and mentions keep more than 1/4 tank on the windscreen sticker.

Personaly havent checked it, i would have thought the electronics would switch off the fuel pump.

If its definitly the case a switch with relay would be a great idea, but remembering to turn it on and off would be a nightmare in a system that starts on petrol and auto switches to gas.

I know for a fact that OLDER volvos use to have regular fuel pump failures. I dont remember if they were fitted inside or outside the tank. Somethings telling me they might be outboard pumps, not sure though.

global88

That should read; in the old days of leaded......

Silly, silly me

z80

They have an intank pump which noone knows about and causes intermittent cutouts in warm climates....then there is the obvious one under the car that most people change when the intank one is to blame

Only a fool lets ANY fuel injected car ever run out of fuel.

hubba-bubba

Except for those poor souls that had the faulty fuel guages in there late model Holdens.

dddp

if you had to keep at least 1/4 tank of petrol in your car at all times then your owners manual would tell you this - read your manual, it doesn't tell you to do this

if this were true, or even based on fact, then most all cars would be needing to get their fuel pumps replaced all the time as just about everyone lets the fuel level go below 1/4 and lots of people don't even put any fuel in until the low level light comes on

My old factory dual fuel EF had a factory sticker that said 20l of petrol every 3,000ks - i never did this or anything even close to it for 4 yrs, never had any fuel problems. My BA dual fuel uses way more petrol than my EF at all times(it automatically runs on petrol longer before switching to gas), even tho i hardly ever run it on petrol, for this reason i never run the car on petrol unless forced to - almost 20,000ks now no problems.

Re lubricating valves, there is a rocker cover breather connected to the inlet ducting just before the throttle body on BAs, this breather lets in oil vapour into the air that's entering your manifold system - this provides a very slight form of lubrication to the valves in a similar way to flashlube (not the same obviously, but similar)

z80

I think you may have cross misinterpreted the message.

The LPG manual DOES tell you that you need to keep a 1/4 of a tank at all times. This then supercedes the manual that you had BEFORE you did the gas conversion....so the manufacturers recommendation becomes invalid.

The clear message is that you never let it completely run out of petrol since it relies on immersion for the longevity of the pump.

A number of cars have TWO pumps, one in the tank and one external.
The car will run okay with one pump "most" of the time.
But it will stall, run rough etc etc.
There are situations where it fails such as a hot 40 degre day if only one pump is operating.
It forms the basis of a "limp home feature" in the event of one of the pumps failing.

BTW 20,000 k's is hardly a long enough test...

dddp

no mention of keeping 1/4 tank petrol in my OMVL manual

did 85.000ks in the EF, 20,000ks in the BA - 100,000ks all up, i guess i speak only for my experience in my cars

global88

Didnt know Volvos have 2 pumps, handy to know.

Fords can run with no fuel to cool off the pump, but who knows for how long you may get away with it. May be a day, maybe a decade, id rather keep it immersed in fuel after feeling how hot my GTR pump gets on an empty tank.

Take out a pump that hasnt been cooled, youd be surprised how hot they get.

dddp

re-read my OMVL manual and found it says to maintain 30% level of petrol in the tank to prevent overheating of the pump(s)

far as i'm concerned tho the only difference is that the petrol injectors don't open and the petrol simply returns to the tank - i won't be changing what i do.

I put about 10-15l of petrol in after the low level light comes on (100ks range) and before the low level chime starts (80ks range) - this takes the fuel level to about 1/3 of a tank in my BA (about 220ks range)

i seriously doubt this practise is harmful to any of the components in the fuel system

wouldn't recommend this to all cars, but i do for mine

z80

The fuel pumps are part of the fuel system.
Are you serious?

Try changing an in-tank fuel system, its a cow of a job......

dddp

yes i'm serious - in my ef i ran much lower fuel levels than i do in my ba - never had any problems with the fuel pump nor any other part of the fuel system in the ef

far as i can see, if running low fuel levels in my car was hazardous to my fuel system then there'd be a caution about it in the car's manual - afterall ford make the car not omvl who after all are making recomendations for lots of cars

my ef was a factory dual fuel, all that the tickford manual said was use at least 40l of fuel for every 4,000ks - no mention made of maintaining any particular level in the fuel tank. I used to put $10 in when the needle was almost touching the empty mark then run it til the needle returned to almost empty - never had any problems witht the pump or any part of the rest of the fuel system

z80

So if the user manual doesn't warn you not to,

it's okay to run an immersed pump dry?

__________________
Disclaimer:
(all my posts are my,opinions etcetera and prone to gross
errors,ommissions,lies,generalities,and more lies or prejudices as suits me on the day )