z80

Just had a government subsidised LPG conversion...the one where they pay the first $2000 for you.

Thought I'd post some things to watch out for....


Total cost $2721.
$2000 rebate, but you have to pay it ALL then get a refund 1-2 weeks later.

Refunds are via your medicare office.....(weird that).



Vic roads needs to receive the installers conversion declaration paperwork first.(They amend your registration details)

Don't turn up to the Medicare office without your Vic Roads registration papers, the current ones...else you'll be sent away.
Vehicle must be private, not a company car.


As far as the conversion, there are a number of ways to do it.
You can go dual fuel or LPG only.
In most cases if you pick LPG only then everything fits nice, and no ugly spare tyre obscuring the back window.
But LPG only you'd better be damned sure your vehicle has hardened valves in the head, else you'll be replacing it in a few years.

In terms of the fuel delivery methods;there are basically two systems that can be fitted to most cars.
They are the open loop and closed loop kits.

Most people get the open loop system, which means that the oxygen sensor is ineffective, the mixture is set by the installer and if it goes out of spec then you need to service it. ( and it will go out of spec).
The open loop systems typically range in the $2-3000 range.

The closed loop system employs a basic electronic module that actually varies the mixture according to the usual variables as in a standard fuel injection system. This is by far the better system in terms of idle etc.

Typically they range from $3500-$5000.

I went for the open loop system cause it was the cheapest, and I regret it.


If I got any of the above wrong please post and let me know

global88

What car Z80?
I have dual on a ford, have just spent a few days converting it to thermo fans, tunning and playing with the lpg.
There are afew tricks to them.
Prices are a ripooff at the moment, gas has gone over the roof too.
What problems are you having seing as you regret it?

z80

I hate the oxygen sensor flashing all the time when on Gas, even though it's done for the kids.


She's a Volvo 940GL.

me_ashman

Heard a good joke about volvo's....

global88

I cannot coment on Volvo engine compatability.
Fords run on straight gas with no problems to the valves (taxis).
Its best to run your car on petrol, one day a week if unsure, this will help lube and protect your valves. Most people choose sundays when they do the least driving.
There is a drip flash lube system you can add that will lube your valves if your worried.
Open loop and closed loop still need constant fine tunning (every 10 to 20k).
The best tip to getting good economy is keeping the air cleaner clean. Lpg systems work on vacuum, a dirty cleaner means you will run rich.
Watch the lpg you use. BP use to have an addative that would clog your converter, Caltex gas id get 100km less distance to a tank.
What brand of system did they use/make/model?
Mines an Impco model L converter with a 300A mixer. Fitted early 2001, all new for $1400. There was no rebate in those days.

Sanity

What about the bullshit LPG prices at the moment ? ( victoria anyway )
What a joke and a good way to destry an industry.

I am glad I no longer have any cars on LPG.

global88

Ill never convert a car to lpg again, its just so much harder to make it pay for itself.
The trick is to buy a car already converted, it cost no more buying a second hand converted car.
The difficulty is finding a low milage one.
Prices are a rippoff atm but still saving an incredible amount compared to petrol.

z80

yeah you're right there Sanity, but petrol is worse.....

@global88...it's an Impco that was fitted.

Don't get me wrong, the car runs great, in fact, it now has more HP.

I just worry about the oxygen sensor and catalyctic converters etc etc.

global88

Some more tips for you z80,

The secret to pulling good hp out of lpg is in the ignition timming, ignition electical system and air fuel mix.

Air fuel mix is easy to adjust to keep a good smooth idle, depends on the model of your mixer/converter.

Ignition leads must be of high quality and in perfect condition. I use bosch lpg compatible leads.

Spark plugs should be one heat range cooler and gap set to the narrow side. My ford settings factory are 1.1 to 1.0mm, so i set them to 1.0. Heat range is a xr6 plug which is one range cooler.

Lpg systems like more advance on the ignition timming. Lpg just loves it and the amount of extra hp is quite noticable. The tip is to put enough advance but remember if you hear pinging when testing on petrol yourve gone too far and must retard it a little. My ford factory setting is 10degrees BTDC and my personal gas setting is 20 degrees BTDC.

If your running straight lpg you dont require a cat.
Duel you must have one. Lpg will not effect your cat or oxygen sensor.

antus

Also, if getting LPG make sure you get a new school LPG injection! Heaps heaps better that some of the older style stuff. Often good for 20% more power due to LPG being 130 octane.

Sanity

That depends on what sort of mileage you are getting out of petrol. A year or so ago I would have said LPG is the better option but now I would say better is cheaper due to getting more k's out of it.

But yeah , its not good either way

HertyGerty

Yes LPG prices are high but they are going to get even higher because of the new Tax starting soon on LPG thanks to Johnny. (and Ford for making gas only cars)

It will get to the stage where it will be cheaper to run on petrol even though gas is a cheaper price.

Sanity

It is cheaper to run petrol in my opinion , I have 3 cars all on petrol :

BMW Z3 gets 550 kms tank
Hyundai Sonata gets 650 kms tank
Holden Apollo gets 550 kms tank

Obviously it depends on how big the tank is , but after having gas cars for the last 15 years and now having petrol only I cant see any benefit in LPG at its current price and how much faster it burns compared to petrol. All LPG cars I have had never got any sort of mileage like what I posted and when I saw LPG for 69.9 2 weeks ago I couldnt believe it.

The price hikes in such a short period of time are incredible , jumps of 20 cents a litre overnight are not uncommon in Victoria.

What sort of prices are you guys paying in other states ?

Trigger351

A few points:
LPG has a higher octane rating than petrol so runs better with the timing advanced.
Running LPG will lower your HP(or KWs if like) even if you tune for it.
You need no extra valve lube if your car came out after ULP replaced leaded fuel.

Like Andrew I no longer run LPG on any of my cars (69 Mustang and 2000 XR8) and like it that way :

global88

Nah disagree with that Sanity.

My calculations comparing both fuels.

Ford 6 cyl 3.9ltr dual fuel. 320,000km on clock.

68 Lt gas at 65cents=$44.20 to fill. This gives me 380 to 420km city.

68lt petrol at $1.45= $98. This gives me 500 to 550km city.

Im way ahead on gas. Taxis wouldnt be using it either if there wasnt a saving.

The problem is justifying the cost of the conversion, you cant, it just does not pay.

As i said earlier, buying a car already converted is the best option but finding one with low milage is difficult.

Trigger351 there are gas carbs that dont provide restrictions, hardest part is finding tanks and lines that will flow enough for high horsepower.
Many turbo street strip cars now running gas.

jmc96

Yeah been on LPG since early 80's. I think it's time to take a good long hard look at my options next time round. I've been lucky in getting the wagon I wanted already converted. The Ford BA's are quite economical so I'm wondering if it's really worth looking hard for a car converted or not worry about it this time?

Geez, it's getting up there, .20cents per Kilometre,


Looks like you've answered my Question

BTW Trigger, a mate has got a 70 Mustang on the way from USA as we type. He's been wanting one for years. Costing him $34K landed. It's going to be totally stripped and rebuilt from ground up.

Sanity

Taxi's probably dont pay 70 cents a litre either

I have never got good mileage out of gas on any car I have owned in all honesty. Cheap prices were always the factor when I used it and now that has gone I am unlikely to ever go back to it unless it drops in price.

Which is unlikely considering the government penalties they are scheduled for the next few years

As you mentioned , it is hard to find a decent second hand car on gas that doesnt have a zillion kms on it.

My fuel costs are pretty low as 2 of 3 cars dont do many km's.

Moof

I have a Ford BF XT DLPG (Dedicated LPG) sedan that I mostly do highway k's, I am able to get approx 700k's per tank and that costs me about $45.00
That would be alot more if It was unleaded petrol.

I am so sick and tired of people in the news and papers complaining about the 10c (approx 7%) litre rise in petrol price and no one mentioning a 10c (approx 25%) rise in gas. LPG went from 44c to 65c in about 3 weeks approx 50% increase
People could complain if petrol went up by 50%

Why dosn't the ACCC investigate a 50% increase in gas??

I remember when lpg was 1/5 the price of petrol now it is nearly 1/2

LPG is only a bye-product of making petrol

Sanity

I can remember borrowing my mates ute and having to put gas in it. It was 12 cents a litre

It sounds like the Ford BA and up range are pretty economical cars.

global88

Gas cars require the right tuning to make them work.
Most garages just give them a standard petrol tune and expect the customer to be happy. The problem is rough running and bad milage.
Lucky for me none of my cars are touched by anyone but myself. I save a packet but end up under a car more than i should at this stage of life.

I have been thinking of getting a bf for the mrs, but have been hearing people complain about the factory gas system due to the lack of knowleage at ford service.
I have also been hearing of aftermarket conversions, piggy backed to the factory ECU, leading to computer failures. Ford voids the warrantee of the ecu if you piggy back a lpg ecu to it. A very, very expensive failure on a new car.