VE factory LPG...

**Ramjet** · 17-03-09, 11:30 PM

Just wondering if anyone here has had any experience with factory gas on the VE commodore? Where do they mount the gas tank in the utility? Does it all work OK?

Cheers

**hoe** · 17-03-09, 11:42 PM

mates got a sedan. tank in boot.
gas injection. works perfectly.....

**Ramjet** · 17-03-09, 11:44 PM

Its not direct injection is it?

**hoe** · 17-03-09, 11:45 PM

yep, gas vapour injection.

works perfectly, i just had my falcon ute done with an aftermarket sysytem.

**Ramjet** · 17-03-09, 11:47 PM

Niiiiiice.....anyone wanna buy a Golf

**Godzilla** · 17-03-09, 11:58 PM

The same system that Zeds 380 uses.

Ford believe it or not has not caught up but say they will use the newer system next year. They still fit the old cheapest systems to save a buck.

Thats the secret why Mitsubishi and Holdens traction control works on their LPG vehicles. The system can cut the fuel delivery instantly just like on petrol injectors.

Note that these are not true non vapor direct injection, they still use a converter.

The latest even newer and better than Holden and Mitsus systems do not use converters, the heat is generated inside a injector, the gas under pressure is supplied to it and the standard factory ecu still controls the injector pulse.

The gas injectors are selected much like petrol injector for volume flow vs pulse width. All they do is remove your petrol injectors, put the new gas ones in and fit a tank and lines. They still use all the factory wiring and electronics for the gas injectors.

Not cheap too i must add, apparently all the cost is in the new design injectors.

Wait another few years to get cheaper and to see factory systems take up the new technologies.

**Ramjet** · 18-03-09, 12:13 AM

So does the Holden system use the same injectors? They just switch the fuel over and the ECU adjusts the MAP for the different fuel?

**hoe** · 18-03-09, 12:20 AM

no, the holden uses seperate injectors, as it is a duel fuel sysytem.

the newest systems still use seperate injectors, but differ in that the injectors are supplied with lpg in liquid form. this is commonly known as liquid injection.

i was going to go for this system, but it is still under development......

i am sure dedicated liquid injection is not far away.

**Godzilla** · 18-03-09, 12:25 AM

Holden uses the factory petrol injectors, and a separate gas system that uses small solenoids for each cylinder and a converter and a separate control unit for the gas system that is wired into the factory wiring to pick up and transmit signals.

Just like the good ol days but much more refined, totally integrates into the car and allows things like your traction control to work just like when on petrol.

Its a great system but not the greatest due to the cost of the latest technologies.

The latest ones produce even more power and economy (at a much higher cost).

Edit; your is whats known as a Direct injection multiport sequential vapor gas system.

Its still vapor due to the converter.

**Ramjet** · 18-03-09, 12:32 AM

Thanks for that, nice work you two...

So what the hell does Ford do with the fuel injectors on their gas falcons - they are LPG only arent they?

**Godzilla** · 18-03-09, 12:39 AM

Factory is ridiculously LPG only but aftermarket does dual without a problem.

They are stilll using up the old prehistoric vapour systems.

Here is a link to light reading on the newest liquid injection system.

**hoe** · 18-03-09, 12:56 AM

my aftermarket falcon system is pretty much identical to my mates factory (dual fuel) holden system, piggyback computer etc.

will post some photos tomorrow...

**Ramjet** · 19-03-09, 10:19 PM

Just been having a look at zeds thread on his 380. I'm assuming this can be done on a rollerdoor? Pity Mitsi dont make a 380 ute!

So whats the go here...buy a VE with factory gas or get this new system retrofitted on a standard fuel VE?

It would probably screw up my warranty eh?

**Godzilla** · 20-03-09, 12:48 AM

The VE factory system is the same as the 380 to my understanding. I could be wrong...check with Holden.
However im unsure if it from the same manufacturer (Impco)

Just confirm that its sequential injection with the dealer.

The latest liquid injection systems have not been taken up by manufacturers of new cars due to costs of the technology.

Personally id take what the manufacturer sends the car out with, much easier if problems arise as service departments will understand it and it will be covered by factory warranty.

Zed had a lot of luck, Mitsubishi still honors the full warranty with the supercharger he had converted on the LPG 380.
He simply went to the best people for the job that were factory recognized, luckily they were curious to see if it would work successfully and saw the benefit (and money to be made) in a cheap to run performance car.

17-03-09, 11:30 PM	#1 (permalink)
Ramjet Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Melbourne Posts: 963 Thanks: 222 Thanked 222 Times in 158 Posts Rep Power: 29	VE factory LPG... Just wondering if anyone here has had any experience with factory gas on the VE commodore? Where do they mount the gas tank in the utility? Does it all work OK? Cheers

17-03-09, 11:42 PM	#2
hoe Bargirl Tester Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: -30.7719955,121.495211 Age: 46 Posts: 2,457 Thanks: 45 Thanked 678 Times in 301 Posts Rep Power: 74	mates got a sedan. tank in boot. gas injection. works perfectly..... __________________ click to email me...... THE Place to Stay in Pattaya Live hoecam

17-03-09, 11:45 PM	#4
hoe Bargirl Tester Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: -30.7719955,121.495211 Age: 46 Posts: 2,457 Thanks: 45 Thanked 678 Times in 301 Posts Rep Power: 74	yep, gas vapour injection. works perfectly, i just had my falcon ute done with an aftermarket sysytem. __________________ click to email me...... THE Place to Stay in Pattaya Live hoecam

18-03-09, 12:20 AM	#8
hoe Bargirl Tester Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: -30.7719955,121.495211 Age: 46 Posts: 2,457 Thanks: 45 Thanked 678 Times in 301 Posts Rep Power: 74	no, the holden uses seperate injectors, as it is a duel fuel sysytem. the newest systems still use seperate injectors, but differ in that the injectors are supplied with lpg in liquid form. this is commonly known as liquid injection. i was going to go for this system, but it is still under development...... i am sure dedicated liquid injection is not far away. __________________ click to email me...... THE Place to Stay in Pattaya Live hoecam

18-03-09, 12:56 AM	#12
hoe Bargirl Tester Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: -30.7719955,121.495211 Age: 46 Posts: 2,457 Thanks: 45 Thanked 678 Times in 301 Posts Rep Power: 74	my aftermarket falcon system is pretty much identical to my mates factory (dual fuel) holden system, piggyback computer etc. will post some photos tomorrow... __________________ click to email me...... THE Place to Stay in Pattaya Live hoecam

17-03-09, 11:44 PM	#3
Ramjet Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Melbourne Posts: 963 Thanks: 222 Thanked 222 Times in 158 Posts Rep Power: 29	Its not direct injection is it?

17-03-09, 11:47 PM	#5
Ramjet Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Melbourne Posts: 963 Thanks: 222 Thanked 222 Times in 158 Posts Rep Power: 29	Niiiiiice.....anyone wanna buy a Golf

17-03-09, 11:58 PM	#6
Godzilla Premium Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Melbourne Age: 46 Posts: 5,125 Thanks: 2,409 Thanked 1,137 Times in 679 Posts Rep Power: 148	The same system that Zeds 380 uses. Ford believe it or not has not caught up but say they will use the newer system next year. They still fit the old cheapest systems to save a buck. Thats the secret why Mitsubishi and Holdens traction control works on their LPG vehicles. The system can cut the fuel delivery instantly just like on petrol injectors. Note that these are not true non vapor direct injection, they still use a converter. The latest even newer and better than Holden and Mitsus systems do not use converters, the heat is generated inside a injector, the gas under pressure is supplied to it and the standard factory ecu still controls the injector pulse. The gas injectors are selected much like petrol injector for volume flow vs pulse width. All they do is remove your petrol injectors, put the new gas ones in and fit a tank and lines. They still use all the factory wiring and electronics for the gas injectors. Not cheap too i must add, apparently all the cost is in the new design injectors. Wait another few years to get cheaper and to see factory systems take up the new technologies.

18-03-09, 12:13 AM	#7
Ramjet Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Melbourne Posts: 963 Thanks: 222 Thanked 222 Times in 158 Posts Rep Power: 29	So does the Holden system use the same injectors? They just switch the fuel over and the ECU adjusts the MAP for the different fuel?

18-03-09, 12:25 AM	#9
Godzilla Premium Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Melbourne Age: 46 Posts: 5,125 Thanks: 2,409 Thanked 1,137 Times in 679 Posts Rep Power: 148	Holden uses the factory petrol injectors, and a separate gas system that uses small solenoids for each cylinder and a converter and a separate control unit for the gas system that is wired into the factory wiring to pick up and transmit signals. Just like the good ol days but much more refined, totally integrates into the car and allows things like your traction control to work just like when on petrol. Its a great system but not the greatest due to the cost of the latest technologies. The latest ones produce even more power and economy (at a much higher cost). Edit; your is whats known as a Direct injection multiport sequential vapor gas system. Its still vapor due to the converter.

18-03-09, 12:32 AM	#10
Ramjet Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Melbourne Posts: 963 Thanks: 222 Thanked 222 Times in 158 Posts Rep Power: 29	Thanks for that, nice work you two... So what the hell does Ford do with the fuel injectors on their gas falcons - they are LPG only arent they?

18-03-09, 12:39 AM	#11
Godzilla Premium Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Melbourne Age: 46 Posts: 5,125 Thanks: 2,409 Thanked 1,137 Times in 679 Posts Rep Power: 148	Factory is ridiculously LPG only but aftermarket does dual without a problem. They are stilll using up the old prehistoric vapour systems. Here is a link to light reading on the newest liquid injection system.

19-03-09, 10:19 PM	#13
Ramjet Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Melbourne Posts: 963 Thanks: 222 Thanked 222 Times in 158 Posts Rep Power: 29	Just been having a look at zeds thread on his 380. I'm assuming this can be done on a rollerdoor? Pity Mitsi dont make a 380 ute! So whats the go here...buy a VE with factory gas or get this new system retrofitted on a standard fuel VE? It would probably screw up my warranty eh?

20-03-09, 12:48 AM	#14
Godzilla Premium Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Melbourne Age: 46 Posts: 5,125 Thanks: 2,409 Thanked 1,137 Times in 679 Posts Rep Power: 148	The VE factory system is the same as the 380 to my understanding. I could be wrong...check with Holden. However im unsure if it from the same manufacturer (Impco) Just confirm that its sequential injection with the dealer. The latest liquid injection systems have not been taken up by manufacturers of new cars due to costs of the technology. Personally id take what the manufacturer sends the car out with, much easier if problems arise as service departments will understand it and it will be covered by factory warranty. Zed had a lot of luck, Mitsubishi still honors the full warranty with the supercharger he had converted on the LPG 380. He simply went to the best people for the job that were factory recognized, luckily they were curious to see if it would work successfully and saw the benefit (and money to be made) in a cheap to run performance car.

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