JK200SX

We are in the process of building a house and need to select suitable downlight. I noticed the other day at the lighting shop that their were a couple of varieties and would like some advice from forum members who may be electricians or knowlegable in this field.

The 3 types I noticed were:

-standard 12V downlights
- the newer(?) 240V downlights, and
- 240V fluorescent (cold cathode?) downlights.

What I was after was which would be the safer/superior type to go for, not taking into account their cost of purchase? I understand that there's been issues with the 12V variety and the potential of fire, but can this happen as easily with the 240v type? Is the problem the lamp heating up or the transformer, which in the case of the 240V type doesn't have on? I'm of the assumption that the 1st 2 variants described above would have similar running costs, with perhaps a little more for the 12V type due to transformer losses?

I'm also of the assumption that the Fluro version doesn't get hot and is not an issue with clearance arounfd the insulation? My only concern with the fluro type is that they may emit the "blue" white colour rather than your typical softer white from a conventional light?

Thanks in advance for your feedback.

JK

oceanboy

They is also LED lights, no heat, next to no current draw.

You seem to undertand the pros and cons, you have kind of answered your own question.

At the end of the day, doesn't looks play a part? Cos if someone put Fluoro Downlights in my new house i would shoot them. I guess they are fine if you have to meet some kind of "Green Energy Rating", but i have not seen that yet.....

Elec Transforner loses are stuff all these days, they are not the iron core monsters of years ago.

So you can rule out control gear loses all together.
You can NOT dim a Fluoro lamp, so if you want dimmers anywhere, toss that idea out the window.
240V downlights are out there, but lamps are expensive and quite frankly, who the hell uses tham anyway???

So you are down to what is install everyday in 99% of domestic houses around the country.
The humble 12V 50 or 20 Watt dicroic downlight fitting.

They are cheap to buy, They are dimmable, They make heat, They ok on power consumption and the light colour range will be more appealling. You can buy different focus lamps and different coloured lamps and you can even buy them at the supermarket when you are getting milk. And best of all, they come in biggest range of any light fitting on the market.

Or, go to the bank, pull out some serious cash, and install LED lights everywhere, they are cool, they are super cheap to run, their light output is intense, you will never change a lamp in your life!

Best advise, go talk to the sparky thats doing your job, he works with lights EVERYDAY of his life.

eastlake

I built our new house 5 years ago and at the time fitted all of the wiring for 61 downlights in total. I haven't fitted them off yet because I am still waiting to see where the technology goes. LED's are making huge inroads but they are not quite at the light output level required, but I am sure they will get there soon. Some of the compact fluorescents are getting pretty good as well, but then there are dimming issues. I believe one manufacturer makes a CFL downlight that has 3 or 4 intensity settings, sort of like preset dimmer levels. The biggest problem with both LED and CFL is the cost, they are still relatively expensive compared to their Halogen counterparts.

A major consideration now is the change in the electrical regulations concerning the fitting of downlights. There is now a minimum distance of clearance around ANY downlight fitting to the nearest combustible material. It would be best to check with your sparkie as to how these new regs might affect your installation.

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oceanboy

A batten holder with a 60Watt Pearl BC lamp looks nice.... Has worked in my house for the last 20 years

weirdo

Built my house about 14 years ago and fitted 240 Volt downlights throughout.
In the kitchen there are 6 and for some reason we seem to blow a bulb every 3 weeks. No freaking idea why it happens but it does.
If I could do it again I would fit the 12 Volt Halogen lights like oceanbitch suggested. The come in some awesome colour selections.

urban_s0ulja

we had same issue when we built our place
240volt downlights vs 12volt with a transformer

we opted for the 240volt ones because theres no transformer to "blow" and you dont need a expensive electrican out to replace it.

on the bad side however, the light is more of a yellow colour than a white colour with the 12v ones.

might be worth looking at the led ones though
they sound pretty niffty

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oceanboy

weirdo, what are you on about??? we all know you have pendent lighting with clogs for lamp shades

@ JK200SX There is a very good reason why 12v Downlights make up 85% of the light fitting market. But if you want to try some new and different and not tested with no real history of use in an installation. Sure try something new.... just be prepared for the unknown

SystemRat

I've seen and heard bad things re the 240 volt ones they don't last and in one case I have seen blew up which sent hot glass spraying the room.

Also downlights can be a fire hazard if not fitted correctly where insulation or other stuff is placed over the top in the ceiling.

They are also expensive to run as each is 50 watts and you need more than one normally to light a room so the fluro ones or led might be the go.

JK200SX

Thanks for the feedback so far - now I'm even more confused.

rob916

I just installed GU10 240v downlights( $72 for 10 bunnings ) in my new house with 48 led GU10 globes( $80 for 10 landed from china) , 12v MR16 sensor downlights ($65 each AWM, for the hallways) with led replacement globes($38 for 4 landed from china), they are installed and waiting for the sparky to panel up. All my other lights are CF except my exterior lights and a 3 head track in the lounge.
I will keep you posted as to how they go, I have 10' ceilings.

If my lighting uses less power that means I can run more computers.

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weirdo

Sounds interesting rob.
Did you do the sums on how much power they will draw?
Any chance of some pics of these?

rob916

They are only 2 watts for the mr16 and 2.3 watts for the gu10.
So that is 23 watts for ALL of my standard downlights and
6 watts for my sensor hallway lights.
So I can run pretty well every light in my house for less than a standard toilet incandescent lamp.
Not bad, but I have yet to prove how good they are...............

Here is the link to the GU10's I got 10 x 48 LED GU10 White Light Bulb WIDE ANGLE 110V 220V - eBay (item 370075602911 end time Aug-11-08 06:54:09 PDT)

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weirdo

Great stuff

Studio1

I'm a sparky amongst other things and the trend here is away from downlights.

Just last week I removed every downlight out of a house, had the holes in the ceiling patched up and fitted standard batten holders with shades or hanging pendants at the owner's request.

Most of the house had 230V 'R' style (reflector) lamp downlight fittings.

In the kitchen they had a cluster of 12V halogen units all fed off one transformer. This house is quite old and has the original rimu panelled ceilings still intact, with softboard laid over them. I noticed that where I took the halogens out, the wood surrounding the hole was black and charred.

Definitely been hot enough to start a fire.

There are some really nice ceiling mounted luminaires out there - take a look around - I'm sure you'll find something better than a downlight.

weirdo

Yeah got the same reflector type 240 Volt downlights here and they blow way too frequent. More so lately. At first I thought it must have been cheap inferior quality bulbs but I tried a few different brands with no noticable difference. So I guess it must be surge related?
Also have some of the older style 12 volt halogen downlights. These are quite crappy and overheat frequently so the safety kicks in and the light goes out till it cools down, then it comes on again.
That's why I like rob's idea with the leds so much, low power usage, no heat and long lifespan.

intelliGEORGE

I just pissed off my downlights for compact fluros

rob916

It is a bit scary knowing how many 12v downlights are around, lots of fire potential( not just transformers, globes as well), unless they are switchmode power supplies they should be banned.

240v GU10 led lamps are cold enough to put your face on.
Being that they are only 2.3 watts you can have heaps and still be better off.
Thats if you like downlights ( I don't like crap hanging off my ceiling). A 50 watt halogen downlight is not very efficient at lighting up a room but 6 led downlights works pretty well and are not so power hungry.

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z80

Sharp to Introduce Six New LED Downlight Lightings | Press Releases:SHARP


looks good....

light output comparison to incandescent lamps...

1400 lumens is 150 watts
950 lumens is 100 watts
650 lumens is 60 watts


less than 650 lumens is a bit dim....

Antennaman

And I am not a sparky, amongst other things. This relieves me of having to inform ppl when their downlights do not conform to AS3000 4.5.2, particularly with regard to clearances, of which I see many instances in a year of work.

How many of these are self installs or professional I have no idea, I am sure the insurance companies know how to work it out and call in the forensic electrical engineers when required if a place goes up in smoke.

The only good things about downlights is how they light up the roof space when they are all on, they do so make for a well lit working environment.

rob916

Not bad for $500+ dollars each (54,600 yen)

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