Aus Standards

**keef82** · 18-06-09, 06:31 PM

Hi Guys,

Went to a job today, there was a b&e and the customer went with a man in a van "mate of the boss" to upgrade the system, we quoted a tecom with dual eol's and a class 4 polled solution, premises is very high risk.

Client proceeded with the "friend" doing the work, get this, they had 8 new pirs installed in the high bay's to cover the roof, all the detectors were wired with 7/020 cable, all on ONE (1) zone back to the "dialler' panel (dialler's progammed correctly should only send one alarm per zone per arming, reduce runaway)

Client wanted US to certify the installation for their insurer.

I certified it to the bin, in writing " This installation does not comply to AS 2201.1, each device must report on a seperate zone"

Imagine the false alarms, the lack of multi break sectors and the dialler only haha!

That will bite them in the bum!

**Keystone** · 18-06-09, 09:37 PM

"Upgrade the system" does this mean you monitored it before & after ?
Did you even get an alarm from there so called upgrade ?

They obviously don't take their security seriously.

**keef82** · 19-06-09, 08:14 AM

I agree ! We did monitor before, not happy with our quote "too expensive"

**IPAlarms** · 20-06-09, 12:27 AM

Originally Posted by keef82

I certified it to the bin, in writing " This installation does not comply to AS 2201.1, each device must report on a seperate zone"

Sounds like sour grapes to me.

They probably certified your quote to the bin: "does this guy think we're made of money - and what the hell is AS 2201.1 that he kept going on about ?"

You probably "assumed" money was no object to the customer and "assumed" he gave a crap about Australian standards.

Originally Posted by keef82

Imagine the false alarms, the lack of multi break sectors and the dialler only haha!

You tend not to get multiple alarms in a roof space, but whether they do or they don't, the other guy got the job. You win some, you lose some.

**Privatteer** · 20-06-09, 07:13 AM

Yep IP, your post sounds exactly like sour grapes.

Insurance companies certainly care about standards, thus so should the client.
8 PIRs on 7/020 can you say voltdrop! Didn't think you could even buy it these days.

**keef82** · 20-06-09, 08:48 AM

Originally Posted by IPAlarms

Sounds like sour grapes to me.

They probably certified your quote to the bin: "does this guy think we're made of money - and what the hell is AS 2201.1 that he kept going on about ?"

You probably "assumed" money was no object to the customer and "assumed" he gave a crap about Australian standards.

You tend not to get multiple alarms in a roof space, but whether they do or they don't, the other guy got the job. You win some, you lose some.

I think your missing the point here. We are a company which complies with the Aus standards, which protect the client. We don't care that we did not get the job, we care when the customer calls US to give them a document for their insurer that states the system has adequate coverage and is installed to the australian standard.

Cowboys that do installations such as this one, 8 pir's on one zone in a warehouse full of electrical items should be shot!!

**Keystone** · 20-06-09, 07:44 PM

Being picky but could you of quoted a different system like Nx that does DEOL ?
Could be the difference between getting the job or not.

**Arbiter** · 20-06-09, 10:22 PM

IP Alarms (or not) - Just because there aren't any standards in your part of the world, doesn't mean we don't need them as obviously pointed out by keef.
Unfortunately there will always be rogues and cowboys in our industry.
Which of the above categories applies to you?
You develop a product that doesn't comply and expect the world to change to suit yourself.
This is exactly the reason we have standards.

**IPAlarms** · 20-06-09, 10:59 PM

Originally Posted by keef82

We are a company which complies with the Aus standards, which protect the client.

OK - lets agree to disagree on that one.

Originally Posted by keef82

we care when the customer calls US to give them a document for their insurer that states the system has adequate coverage and is installed to the australian standard.

Quite right. The Customer made his choice. Whether it was the right or wrong choice is not for us to judge, but as he did not chose your company and the system no longer meets the standards, how can he ask for you to sign it off ?

Originally Posted by keef82

Cowboys that do installations such as this one, 8 pir's on one zone in a warehouse full of electrical items should be shot!!

..... or get sent to England for the winter !

**IPAlarms** · 20-06-09, 11:05 PM

Originally Posted by Privatteer

Yep IP, your post sounds exactly like sour grapes.

Just fighting my corner.

Originally Posted by Privatteer

Insurance companies certainly care about standards, thus so should the client.

Can we meet half way and say "so should the client if they require insurance"

....or are you sticking with EVERY client should care about standards ?

**IPAlarms** · 20-06-09, 11:37 PM

Originally Posted by Arbiter

IP Alarms (or not) - Just because there aren't any standards in your part of the world, doesn't mean we don't need them as obviously pointed out by keef.

By "your part of the world", I assume you are referring to North America and Europe where we are most active ?

For your information: "our products are suitable for use in systems designed to comply with PD6662:2004 at grade 2 or 3 and environmental class II" in Europe.

One of our solutions complies with UL in North America - others don't.

In "your part of the world" the standards were basically written by Telstra and Optus, for the protection of Telstra and Optus - so please forgive me if I think your standards are nothing more than a joke !

When you have a system whereby an independant body actually send people out and inspect installations for compliance, then let me know and I might start to take your standards more seriously.

When I ran an approved installation company in the UK, the inspectors turned up at my office twice a year, picked out 3 customer files at random, had me drive him to the sites with ladders, tools and a multimeter and then proceeded to do a complete inspection of wiring and paperwork. Too many mistakes and he would not hesitate to pull our license.

Any of you standards worshippers ever have to do anything like that ?

I don't think so. Fit and forget seems to be the norm, yet some of you hipocrites jump all over me because I chose to stand up against something I don't believe in.

**Arbiter** · 21-06-09, 12:06 AM

Originally Posted by IPAlarms

When I ran an approved installation company in the UK, the inspectors turned up at my office twice a year, picked out 3 customer files at random, had me drive him to the sites with ladders, tools and a multimeter and then proceeded to do a complete inspection of wiring and paperwork. Too many mistakes and he would not hesitate to pull our license.

Explains your Thailand address these days.

**IPAlarms** · 21-06-09, 02:27 AM

Originally Posted by Arbiter

Explains your Thailand address these days.

Cool - you have wit. That's promising

Nah - I got sick of the red tape, packed it all in and moved to Australia for 4 years. I loved it there and we had the option to stay, but the rest of my family do not have milky white skin, so we felt it best to move on

Do you have a problem with Thailand dude ? - Have you ever been here ? There is a huge Aussie ex-pat community here having a ball.

If you're a family man - the education system here puts western schools to shame. My kids speak 3 languages and are thriving. They were shocked that they got to eat their lunch in a canteen after sitting on the playground floor for 4 years in Oz.

Now if their Dad could just peddle some of his non compliant foreign crap in Australia and make a few dollars, he could get rid of that 12 year old green Hyundai and get a smart Toyota or Merc like the rest of the Dad's.

**IPAlarms** · 21-06-09, 02:43 AM

....but whilst we are on the subject of standards, a couple of guys I really respect in the Aussie industry have just started up a new association called the AMCA....

They even have a forum, so get over there and sign up.