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Thread: Working for myself whilst still working full time

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    Red face Working for myself whilst still working full time

    Hey there!
    I have been in the industry for 10 years or so. Finally starting to do a bit too much cash work to go un noticed. So i was wondering, do i need a master licence to do work on weekends? I have an ABN and was thinking of registering a business name. Do ineed to go through all the rigmoral to get a master licence and become a member of ASIAL and all that stuff? Any help and advice will be greatley appreciated!
    If i get a master licence do i then have to notify my boss now that i have one or can i work under 2 master licences, his one when i work for him and my own if i apply when i work weekends???
    I would like to do the right thing and not cause myself any trouble with the law. I have all the appropriate licences to service and install alarms and telephone cabling and all that but do i need that master licence to work weekends legitamitly???

    Cheeers



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    Quote Originally Posted by tecommaster View Post
    If i get a master licence do i then have to notify my boss now that i have one or can i work under 2 master licences, his one when i work for him and my own if i apply when i work weekends???
    I
    Cheeers
    I wouldn't think you were legally obliged to tell your boss but he may see a moral obligation to be informed. Conflict of interest etc & certainly if you are using his vehicle or equipment. ALL work must be covered by a master licence so if your boss doesn't put his name to your weekend work then you will need your own master licence. When I first started in the industry I was doing subby work for Chb & would continually be on installations that were seriously deficient in planning & design. I would often make suggestions to the client about improvements / changes etc & suggest they ring the sales people so they could be done while I was onsite. Without fail he would be quoted rediculous prices like $300 for one extra PIR to be installed. This would naturally be declined. Now this was at a time that I was trying to build up my own client base , so having given Chb the opportunity to satisfy the client I did not see a conflict of interest to leave my card & tell them the phone me later (when I was on my own time) This got me a lot of clients who are still with me today however when Chb found out they did not see it the same way as me & I was given the boot. Did not worry me too much as while I was technically competent I was only doing there work to get industry knowledge. I still do contract work for three security businesses but they all know that I put customer satisfaction before their profit margin. One of these even gets me to quote , cost , supply equipment & do the job , invoice him for the lot & he puts a margin on then bills the customer. He gets the monitoring if it is monitored & I look after any warranty the cost of which I have built in to my cost. This way he knows that if I cut corners then its on my shoulders not his.

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    Thanks for you help bud, so in order to do work outside of my actual full time job, i will need a Master Licence even if i am fully licenced and competent to complete said works??? Just to clarify?
    It just seems like alot to go through for a few weekend jobs!

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    I still would like to go about my business leagally. So if this becomes an issue then i will have to get a master licence.
    Licenced installer and cabler

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    yep - you need a licence to employ yourself & a licence to do the work. It's called revenue raising. This is why so many electricians got out of security , the costs involved made it uneconomical for the half dozen or so jobs they did per year.

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    Is this the same in victoria? needing a master licence if your a sole trader?

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    Quote Originally Posted by watchdog View Post
    I wouldn't think you were legally obliged to tell your boss but he may see a moral obligation to be informed. Conflict of interest etc & certainly if you are using his vehicle or equipment. ALL work must be covered by a master licence so if your boss doesn't put his name to your weekend work then you will need your own master licence. When I first started in the industry I was doing subby work for Chb & would continually be on installations that were seriously deficient in planning & design. I would often make suggestions to the client about improvements / changes etc & suggest they ring the sales people so they could be done while I was onsite. Without fail he would be quoted rediculous prices like $300 for one extra PIR to be installed. This would naturally be declined. Now this was at a time that I was trying to build up my own client base , so having given Chb the opportunity to satisfy the client I did not see a conflict of interest to leave my card & tell them the phone me later (when I was on my own time) This got me a lot of clients who are still with me today however when Chb found out they did not see it the same way as me & I was given the boot. Did not worry me too much as while I was technically competent I was only doing there work to get industry knowledge. I still do contract work for three security businesses but they all know that I put customer satisfaction before their profit margin. One of these even gets me to quote , cost , supply equipment & do the job , invoice him for the lot & he puts a margin on then bills the customer. He gets the monitoring if it is monitored & I look after any warranty the cost of which I have built in to my cost. This way he knows that if I cut corners then its on my shoulders not his.
    So you were basically stealing from the mouth that was feeding you, i'd be pissed as well.

    If you are wearing the shift for a company, you are representing them, and have NO right to leave your card behind, "hey call me !!"

    What if this was one of your staff members?

    Un believable..

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    I would have your ass served asap if i was your boss and found out about it, even the most basic of employment contracts covers this type of illegal practise. I would also insure that you were charged with theft so u couldn't get a master license in that state as well as your installers license. What you were / are doing is commonly known as theft / fraud / wankerism, take your pick. you are doing exactly what our industry trys to prevent.

    but good on you for wanting to get out there and amongst it by ur self, security industry is small everyone knows everyone, respect is paramount.

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    Um okay then. So the answer to the actual question i asked was yes, i need a Master Licence to conduct works outside of my full time employment. Thanks for keeping to the topic....
    But seeing as though im typing, yes we are in the industry to prevent theft and anyone with a third of a brain knows this. If it wasnt for watchdog replying honestly to a valid question, i could have found myself in quite some strife! So keef82 and balun, pull your heads in!
    Licenced installer and cabler

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    Quote Originally Posted by keef82 View Post
    So you were basically stealing from the mouth that was feeding you, i'd be pissed as well.

    If you are wearing the shift for a company, you are representing them, and have NO right to leave your card behind, "hey call me !!"

    What if this was one of your staff members?

    Un believable..
    What was I stealing ? I got the customer to contact Chb & gave them the opportunity to meet the needes of that customer at a price he would accept. Can you tell me why they would quote $300 for an extra PIR when I was on site already. They obviously didn't want the work & I did. The customer had refused their price before I would give them my card. ie the work WAS NOT going to them regardless. What makes you think I was representing them ? I was purely providing labour. My tools , my vehicle & no Chb insignia. They tried to get me to wear their shirt & when I asked if they were trying to make out I was an employee , they let the matter drop.
    @ balun - you speak of things about which you have no knowledge. What employment contract , there was none. Illegal practices - please explain ! Charged with theft - what did I steal ?
    What I saw from the moment I entered this industry was the number of lying , incompetant , price inflating morons who have been around since the year dot. This is mainly the long established , larger companies who trade on their previous reputations from when they had market dominance. Want some examples ?

    1) A certain ex market leader W who would tell clients that the alarm panel needed updating every 5 years or they would not be covered by insurance.
    2) The same ex market leader W who bribed Telstra workers to do illegal cabling in a certain Newcastle Telephone exchange. The Telstra workers lost their jobs & were charged while W suffered no consequences.
    3) Security company wanting to pay by the minute for time on the job only. Would you like to drive 40 km round trip only to get paid for 5 minutes for changing a battery ?
    4) Security company supplying 2nd hand equipment as new.
    5) Security company insisting all monitored domestic panels have opens/close & daily test.

    I could go on. Don't put shit on me , I've paid my dues !

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    Quote Originally Posted by keef82 View Post
    So you were basically stealing from the mouth that was feeding you, i'd be pissed as well.

    If you are wearing the shift for a company, you are representing them, and have NO right to leave your card behind, "hey call me !!"

    What if this was one of your staff members?

    Un believable..
    Lol, you make out as if the big boys don't do the same... Atleast Watchdog gave them the option to quote. The big guys have their own underhanded tactics.

    I have taken one mob to court for trying to stealing my customers. I had 500 lines going back to a monitoring centre that also provided sales, service and installations. Bastards were cold calling my customers trying to undercut me a go directly to the source. Turns out the idiot mentioned my business and explained how I was a bureau and how they could save money. Luckily I have loyal customers. Needless to say, I won and pulled all my customers to an independently run monitoring center.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tecommaster View Post
    I still would like to go about my business leagally. So if this becomes an issue then i will have to get a master licence.
    I sugest you have a look at the following link. Be prepared to shell out quite a few bucks for the licence if you qualify, membership to an industry organisation, insurances etc. Having a security licence and qualifications does not give you the right to work for your self unless you are master licenced as well. If you don't have one then you will have to work for someone with one.


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    Quote Originally Posted by watchdog View Post
    What I saw from the moment I entered this industry was the number of lying , incompetant , price inflating morons who have been around since the year dot.
    - and I was beginning to think I was the only one to see that.

    Gotta love the security industry.
    Developer of VoIP2Go at ozvoip.net - Alarm compatible VoIP Network

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    Quote Originally Posted by tecommaster View Post
    I would like to do the right thing and not cause myself any trouble with the law.
    Your an honest guy. Sometimes "doing the right thing" will turn around and bite you in the ass - especially when the powers that be make it ridiculously time consuming and costly for you to do "the right thing".

    Watchdog offered good advice. I cannot offer advice, but think about the way you are working right now and ask yourself if you are hurting anyone personally. If you are, then it might be time for change. If not, then why not carry on as you are ?
    Developer of VoIP2Go at ozvoip.net - Alarm compatible VoIP Network

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    Quote Originally Posted by watchdog View Post
    @ balun - you speak of things about which you have no knowledge. What employment contract , there was none. Illegal practices - please explain ! Charged with theft - what did I steal ?
    !

    errrrrrr........... all my techs sign contracts, hell, all my admin staff too... and there is a huge section on privacy.
    Last edited by balun; 20-06-09 at 02:27 AM. Reason: Not airing dirty laundry

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    Quote Originally Posted by tecommaster View Post
    Um okay then. So the answer to the actual question i asked was yes, i need a Master Licence to conduct works outside of my full time employment. Thanks for keeping to the topic....
    But seeing as though im typing, yes we are in the industry to prevent theft and anyone with a third of a brain knows this. If it wasnt for watchdog replying honestly to a valid question, i could have found myself in quite some strife! So keef82 and balun, pull your heads in!
    Im sorry, yes you will need a master license.
    Would you ignore a comment like that? would you quote for "weekend work" to your works customers? hope not!

    Don't tell me to pull my head in, this is a "forum" open discussion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by watchdog View Post
    What was I stealing ? I got the customer to contact Chb & gave them the opportunity to meet the needes of that customer at a price he would accept. Can you tell me why they would quote $300 for an extra PIR when I was on site already. They obviously didn't want the work & I did. The customer had refused their price before I would give them my card. ie the work WAS NOT going to them regardless. What makes you think I was representing them ? I was purely providing labour. My tools , my vehicle & no Chb insignia. They tried to get me to wear their shirt & when I asked if they were trying to make out I was an employee , they let the matter drop.
    @ balun - you speak of things about which you have no knowledge. What employment contract , there was none. Illegal practices - please explain ! Charged with theft - what did I steal ?
    What I saw from the moment I entered this industry was the number of lying , incompetant , price inflating morons who have been around since the year dot. This is mainly the long established , larger companies who trade on their previous reputations from when they had market dominance. Want some examples ?

    1) A certain ex market leader W who would tell clients that the alarm panel needed updating every 5 years or they would not be covered by insurance.
    2) The same ex market leader W who bribed Telstra workers to do illegal cabling in a certain Newcastle Telephone exchange. The Telstra workers lost their jobs & were charged while W suffered no consequences.
    3) Security company wanting to pay by the minute for time on the job only. Would you like to drive 40 km round trip only to get paid for 5 minutes for changing a battery ?
    4) Security company supplying 2nd hand equipment as new.
    5) Security company insisting all monitored domestic panels have opens/close & daily test.

    I could go on. Don't put shit on me , I've paid my dues !
    Dude, you should approach these companies for work, wear their shirt, put their stickers on the window, and do a class 1 job for that customer.
    If you cant wear a shit with the logo for the company YOU are representing, you are in the wrong field of work, with the wrong attitude.

    There is NO defending what you did, it was downright immoral and un ethical.

    That was a certain companies customer, the customer can and does see how you respond, so if the quote was $300, fine, leave it at that, do the job for the company putting food on your table and leave.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IPAlarms View Post
    - and I was beginning to think I was the only one to see that.

    Gotta love the security industry.
    Watchdog, you are one of them!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by intelliGEORGE View Post
    Lol, you make out as if the big boys don't do the same... Atleast Watchdog gave them the option to quote. The big guys have their own underhanded tactics.

    I have taken one mob to court for trying to stealing my customers. I had 500 lines going back to a monitoring centre that also provided sales, service and installations. Bastards were cold calling my customers trying to undercut me a go directly to the source. Turns out the idiot mentioned my business and explained how I was a bureau and how they could save money. Luckily I have loyal customers. Needless to say, I won and pulled all my customers to an independently run monitoring center.
    I don't and wont do it, i am extremely loyal to the mouth that feed's me.
    Don't be cowboys, it's WRONG.

    I agree, that monitoring centre was totally in the wrong & good on u for pulling your lines. I would do the same.

    If you all don't see a problem with this, there is something seriously wrong!?

    So your "defence" for taking work from a company, as a subbie is this

    "Originally Posted by watchdog
    What I saw from the moment I entered this industry was the number of lying , incompetant , price inflating morons who have been around since the year dot"

    Yet you are part of that?!
    haha go figure

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    Quote Originally Posted by balun View Post
    errrrrrr........... all my techs sign contracts, hell, all my admin staff too... and there is a huge section on privacy.
    you haven't answered my questions.

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