Prox Fob copying/programming

**AUS355** · 25-01-10, 07:18 PM

Hi

I have purchased a property that has a rear electric gate that runs off a prox fob on my keytag. I would like to copy my prox fob so I have 1 per family member and a spare, can this be done by purchasing a device to do it myself? Or is their someone I can bring my prox fob too so it can be copied successfully?

I believe I can get the blanks easily from overseas...just setting it all up is the issue.

I am located in Victoria.

regards,

Aus355

**Security** · 25-01-10, 08:23 PM

Unless you're willing to spend $1000 on a programmer, I'd suggest speaking to an installer.

**AUS355** · 25-01-10, 09:23 PM

Hi

I am prepared to spend $1000 on a programmer if it lets me do it myself.

Do you have some further information on what will do it?

regards,

Aus355

**WIDEMR** · 26-01-10, 09:46 AM

Is the gate only on your property? as in its unlikely that other people share the gate, or all neighbours gates are controlled by cards too?

If its just a reader controlling one gate, prob a small system like a presco or part of alarm ect, are you able to take a picture of the fob/token and the reader, if you have an alarm then the keypad or if you know what system it is then let us know.

If its a small system like a presco as said above, 5-10 tags and callout might be about $300? and if you ordered the tags yourself they may not be able tpo be copyed and re programmed, will have to be programmed in. dunno untill know what it is.

**AUS355** · 26-01-10, 11:32 AM

Hi

The gate is for my use only and it is on my private property and is used to access a side entrance to another street. Here is a link to what my prox fob exactly looks like:

I would rather be able to do the programming/copying myself or bring the Prox Fob to someone to be programmed/copied.

regards,

Aus355

**Security** · 26-01-10, 05:41 PM

Hi AUS355,

$1000 is generally the starting price for a standard 125kHz programmer that supports the standard 26bit wiegand format. It's unlikely you'll find a programmer that will support any 64bit format for under that amount.
Your best bet is to simply search for "125kHz programmer". You can also try other key words such as "64 bit", "card" and "wiegand".
64bit ASK is a non-standard format and generally is considered to be more secure.
I would suggest getting an installer for this one.

**AUS355** · 26-01-10, 06:22 PM

Hi

I have found a device called a Proxmark3 and it states it can program 125khz/64bit Prox Fob's:

I am thinking this is the product I need...what are your thoughts?

I don't want to spend money and not learn anything. I would rather spend the money and be self sufficient to do things at my own will.

regards,

Aus355

**downunderdan** · 26-01-10, 09:25 PM

Aus355, that's an interesting gadget, however it's not what you are looking for. It can read tags and it can "simulate" (spoof) a lot of them. For the most part it doesn't "program" them though.

You should be aware that a large number, if not the majority of systems don't' have "programmable" proxy cards per se. The cards/tokens/fobs aren't programmed, the way older magnetic stripe cards might have been.

Rather, the cards already have a unique value (number) coded to them at the factory, which is fixed. You then program the access control system (i.e. your reader and associated controller) with that value, to authorise that card (or subsequently to void it etc.)

The data on the cards themselves does not change and there is no facility for the end-user to reprogram them. This is particularly the case with smaller standalone systems. Programmable RFID and proxy cards e.g. some of the HID 125Khz type gear, is relevant at the enterprise level - lots of doors, hundreds of users, multiple sites etc. With respect, I very much doubt that sort of gear was used at your site. If it was, I'd like to know what you're doing at your place! :-)

You'd certainly learn plenty playing with the Proxmark gear, but I don't think any of it will help you.

The cosmetic appearance of the cards gives little information as to their origin. The vast majority of proxy-tags look largely the same e.g. a white plastic card. My suggestion is that you stop analysing the fobs and find out what's controlling the gate. Make, model etc. of the access controller and reader. From there it will be easier working out how you can source additional cards, for example contacting a vendor for a few new tags and then reprogramming the gate controller to accept them.

**Security** · 26-01-10, 10:14 PM

I'm not sure what your background is but the proxmark is on open source project orientated towards hobbyists with a good technical background.
If you want to understand more about RFID, proxmark certainly looks like the way to go. I'm not sure if it's what you want though.
What I think you're looking for is a card programmer:

You'll need to ensure you have the right type of card programmer that is capable of programming the format you're after (The link above is only an example. I’m not sure if it will support the format you’re using). Then you need to ensure the card itself has the capacity to support the desired format and that it is purchased in a blank or initialised state. Most cards are write only (including smart cards).

Personally I'd save myself the time and money and go to an installer.

**AUS355** · 28-01-10, 11:25 AM

Hi

What are people's thoughts on this little beauty?

regards,

Aus355

**Security** · 28-01-10, 01:00 PM

It's a fixed format reader for a particular type of IC. Assuming that you're using that format then it would be ok.
Have you done as downunderdan suggested a little while ago? You really should look up more detail on the make and model of the reader and the existing fob(s). Without knowing exactly what it is that you're using, I wouldn't recommend anything.

**AUS355** · 28-01-10, 01:29 PM

Hi

I do have the following info on my exact prox fob:

125kHz, ASK, 64 bits R/O, 9 bits header, 8 bits customer ID, 32 bits data, 15 bits parity check, Bit rate CF/32, /64

I can also confim the encyption type is called "Unique" and it operates in "Manchester Mode"

I understand the programmer I am looking at operates in the same fashion....What other things can you state I should make myself aware of before going ahead and possibly wasting my money.

regards,

Aus355

**downunderdan** · 28-01-10, 02:00 PM

AUS355, please go back and re-read my earlier post.

The fobs are only part of the equation. We need information about the reader and the access controller, or you will be out of luck.

The details you've provided, sound like a generic Sokymat OEM proxy card.

"Unique" probably isn't an encryption type. It's a chip model.

That being the case, I'm also quite confident the "R/O" stands for read-only. Again, refer to my previous post.

Good luck.

**AUS355** · 18-02-10, 09:47 PM

Hi

Thanks Dan, I am learning heaps on this.

BTW: does anyone know where I can buy the Sokymat prox fobs from over the web or in Australia?

regards,

Aus355

**noRbackwards** · 04-03-10, 08:21 PM

Not being very smart but had I purchased a property that had a reader on a gate the fist thing I would do is to remove it and use a sytem that has remotes so that I can open the gate from a distance, have the ability to add and change readily avilable remotes and knowing that who ever I purchased the property from has no further access to the gate.

Why spend a $1000 on a programmer when you can purchase another more confenient system as what ever you got would not be worth $1000

Then look who is talking I installed a loop sytem in the driveway (30m from the gate) on each side and vehicle attached transponders but too lazy to install the gate.

**AUS355** · 04-03-10, 09:59 PM

Hi

To noRbackwards: The property I purchased where the gate is installed is a new property for me and at the price I got it for came with the elaborate security system allready installed, and based on the bank value been a lot more than what I paid for the property I didn't want to negotiate on what is essentially a spare entrance to the property and not a main entrance that was in perfect working order allready and was supplied with a prox fob!,I would have asked for the 4 bathrooms to be fully renovated before asking the previous owner to change a perfectly working secure gate system which mind you they were very proud to offer me as part of the deal!

And if you read my first post I am doing this so I can have one prox fob in each car and a spare in the house, probably not really needed but I would rather have them in case I want to use the side entrance due to a traffic jam or some unforseen event like roadworks etc.

Now sometimes it is not the $1000 that you spend it is the challenge...just ask all the people that really know how to hack F****L pay tv themselves and I mean by actually writing the file that is applied to the card not just installing the file on a card....yep its the challenge and that my friend is a discussion for some other time!

Now I have had a lot of success on this topic and having lots and lots and lots of fun on the way!, the best thing I have learnt is that I now have access to potentially so many under sky scraper car parks in the cbd due to been able to gain access...this was not why I studied about prox fob's but definetly a side benefit for me.

regards,

Aus355