Ext Siren Tamper SW - Bosch 16Plus
I have a Tamper Switch within the External Siren Box, however it is hooked up with the 6.8k resister on Zone 16 on my Bosch 16Plus. It is by default constantly showing up on the status display on the keypad as "Zone 16 Open".
Does that sound rite?
Also if you view the log, on the keypad, it says Zone 16, EOL Open, zone in alarm.
Last edited by imaz; 21-03-10 at 04:35 AM.
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No it's not right. It is exactly what the panel is saying - open. There is an o/c in the siren tamper loop. What is the siren box mounted on. If it is a rough faced brick or any corrugated surface then check that the tamper switch is being depressed when it is mounted to the surface. If it is mounted well out of reach then I wouldn't use it. I change about two a week due to moisture /corrossion
imaz (27-03-10)
hmm... is it likely? I remember it being depressed well on the wall it is mounted. It has an 6.8k resister on this tamper switch. Is there any possiblilty there is a config that needs changing to change its polarity on the system? ie, whats open is closed, and closed it open?Originally Posted by watchdog
Is the EOL resistor wired in series or parallel with the switch?
imaz (27-03-10)
Hi,
It is zone16, so I would say parralel. Using Ground and Zone 8 with 6.8k resister.
Edit: I just checked my wiring diagram that i followed, and the resister is on the Ground, and not the zone... So i would say serial???
Last edited by imaz; 22-03-10 at 03:47 AM.
Hi,
So any suggestions? Since I have wired the tamper switch as a zone, does the resister need to be soldered to the Ground cable, or the Zone cable?
Thanks
Leave everything wired up & pull the siren box off the wall. If the zone 16 open disappears then you have wired the resistor in parallel. It needs to be in series.
zone 16 --------resistor---------switch----------------zone 16 com
Last edited by watchdog; 23-03-10 at 07:26 PM.
imaz (27-03-10)
Hi,
okay, I had done this midnight last night while playing with the settup. I'm at work at the moment though will try your suggestion later tonight.
I had swapped the cable from the tamper switch to the reverse order, so the "resister" is now on the Zone 16. Still appears as "Opened Zone 16" on the keypad.
It doesn't matter which side of the switch it is on
imaz (27-03-10)
Slightly off-topic, but in relation to the Bosch Solution 16+, how do you guys feel about using the horn monitoring approach to tamper. I.e. panel--horn---tamperswitch--panel.
You free up a zone (and 16 isn't that many these days) and you'll still know if the horn is disconnected. Only possible threat that I see, is someone shoving a sock in it. The upside is no failed tamper switches.
Last edited by downunderdan; 24-03-10 at 10:23 PM.
Most panels have bell circuit monitoring, so I am one of those that runs a switch in series.
imaz (27-03-10)
Hey I was just trying to stay on-topic
It's interesting how many old-school installers still create a separate zone. I'd love to know if there are any good arguments for/against either approach.
To be honest, I think the whole notion of siren tamper is deprecated anyway. What crim is going to bother these days, when sirens are cheerfully ignored in any case. I'd say the venerable Satellite Siren has had its day...
That's not to say don't use one, but given that they will eventually fail, it seems like creating a headache to use a mechanical tamper, when horn/bell monitoring in conjunction with a second noise-maker and remote monitoring would be more than enough.
In fact, the crook would be doing himself a disservice cutting the wires, as a monitoring station's client receiving a siren tamper, followed a minute later by a zone activation, would have the brown undies on...
You mean how it is suggested in the Bosch 16Plus manual? tamper switch is somehow together with the siren.
Anyhow, I have sorted out my problem. Completely my mistake, of putting in a 6.8k resister on zone 8 which zone 16, tamper too already had a 6.8k. So I just changed the zone 8 resiter to 3.3k since it was easier to change. Wallah! Dont know how I missed that...
Precisely.
A number of installations I've seen have ignored that, preferring the 'old school' way of doing it.
I remain unsure whether that's because there is a good reason of which I'm unaware, or simply that they haven't read the manual...
Well the tamper switch only protects the physical integrity of the box while the siren monitor protects the electrical integrity of the siren. Whenever I can I use both.
After analyzing the manual, I am unsure how to circuit up the tamper switch with the siren anyway..
Putting it in another zone made it much simpler, but then again I'm not a pro.
But I guess what watchdog is saying is that, if there was a fault with the siren wiring, at least the box is still on an entirely seperate circuit to the siren and is reported, where as if its on the same as the siren then both are likely to fail.. I dont know, I am probably making it up....
I tend not to use the tampers with the panels that monitor the siren unless it is spec'd that it needs to be there. The tamper switches seem to be more trouble than they are worth.
Not so fast.
The speaker has a nominal resistance. If you wire the tamper switch in series with the horn, as long as the tamper switch is closed, the panel will see the horn's normal resistance. If the switch is open however (i.e the box has been pulled off) the panel will know there is an issue and can report it (or activate other noise-makers in the system).
Cutting the wire anywhere along its path will have a similar effect.
Doing it this way (on panels which support it) means you save a zone and have a traditionally tamper-protected housing.
However, most people know that tamper switches on siren housings do fail as they are so exposed to the elements. The debate I'm hoping to inspire is whether it is suitable to solely monitor the horn, rather than a fault-susceptible plunger switch.
As I see it, the only possible reason for pulling a box off the wall, is to cut the speaker wires. So a second later when the bad man goes snip, you'll still know the siren has been tampered with.
I suspect that criminals these days wouldn't even bother disabling a siren unless they were planning on robbing a premises while the occupants were on site. Why? Because most people ignore the siren anyway. It's an old fashioned attack, whereas the probability of a failed plunger switch is a far bigger problem.
Last edited by downunderdan; 26-03-10 at 11:32 PM.
The majority of genuine breaks I have been to have had the siren smashed off the wall with a hammer or crowbar and wires cut so it is always going to report a lost siren to the control room.
Well well forget about the sock that does not happen often as here on the Gold Coast tamper switches going faulty all the time no matter what tamper switch used and then the tamper switch jamms and does not work anyway.
Have never put siren tampers on domestic installations and used the siren monitoring tamper as a back up. Have had three three siren covers ripped off wall and by gee it worked in all cases.
Always scares me when someone installs tamper switches on siren boxes 8m above the ground how the hell is an average intruder is going to knock it off . Only the other day I had a siren and stobe fall off a metal siren box (rusted away) and tamper switch remained intact BUT siren tamper fault reported as horn speaker hit the ground ripping off the connection. So much for the siren cover tamper.
And so much more for the siren monitoring it once again worked wonders (By the way I use plastic siren covers as they seem to defy rust)
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