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  1. #1
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    Default And people bag Macs......

    Windows, what a useless heap of junk.

    After dragging out a Toshiba Satellite laptop running Windows 7, which had a heap of issues and drivers missing.
    I spent all of last night downloading the current drivers to get those devices working.
    It had No LAN, No Wifi, the wrong Display driver etc.

    Which was ok, as i used it as an Offline PC only for diagnostic work on Vehicles and Bikes.

    So after searching and installing the latest drivers, the lappy is now on my network and after i correct some strange proxy issue, it is online.

    So i download Firefox, then Chrome.
    Then notice the screen is all stretched horizontal, after more Googling, i download 128Mb of Graphics drivers.
    Install, machine reboots and tries to install some FreeWare rubbish that is going to scan my PC... (Driver download from Toshiba website mind you)
    After dodging that bullet, now the screen runs at the correct resolution, but its dimmer than before and i cant adjust the brightness back to how it was.
    Google that, yep, common issue with the update.

    Then i am prompted to go get some Virus Software.... and a bunch of other junk.
    After deleting some other strange program that was running in the back ground, i go to turn Off the Laptop as i am happy with my progress.


    But wait......... "Do not turn off your computer, its installing 1 of 12 of Updates".....
    Really?? When did all that download and at what cost to my internet package
    (lucky its unlimited, but still)

    Now its been over 1hour of installing updates, then it finally reboots, great i think.......
    But Nooooooo, there is a 3 Stage Service Pack to install and reboot 3 times... FFS

    So another 50minutes plus goes buy..... The PC is still useless, can not be used until i wait... wait.... wait for a bunch of stuff i never even asked for.

    So you Mac or "Bits of Fruit" bashers, what are you on about??
    This is the worst experience with a PC i've had since..... Since the last time a used a Windows based PC

    Its still has not finished installing what ever i never asked for
    And I still need to get Virus Software

    All this, from just turning it off!?!

    You don't get any of this crap with a Mac, let me tell you

    Rant over.... until it asks for some random .dll file or more updates.

    Rule No. 1, Never turn these things off.

    EDIT: Great, its finally rebooted and found the Home Screen, now a pop up says the Drivers were not successfully installed, bahahahah Windows...
    I have look, great, there is now No Network, all Wifi and LAN are gone.... what a time wasting heap of shit

    Great Update Windows, you just made every that worked, stop working.
    Back to square one!
    And now the downloaded Toshiba Drivers no longer work or install, bahahahaahah.
    And worse, the issue is mentioned on the net....
    What a great product, that comes in unannounced, breaks things, then leaves...

    And people say Macs are rubbish.... pfft.

    A Mac.... You would have opened the lid, used it and shut the lid... Done.
    Last edited by ol' boy; 17-07-16 at 02:04 PM.
    If u want to go on an expedition get a Land Rover, if u want to come home from an expedition get a Landcruiser!

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    thats about it
    its mainly the update crap
    win 8 may not have needed all the drivers
    this is why i .dll updated versions off the .net but 7 & even 8.1 now are a joke if you have a older copy
    but if you can complete all the tasks you can have 10 for free ! only for 23 more days though lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by Philquad View Post
    thats about it
    its mainly the update crap
    win 8 may not have needed all the drivers
    this is why i .dll updated versions off the .net but 7 & even 8.1 now are a joke if you have a older copy
    but if you can complete all the tasks you can have 10 for free ! only for 23 more days though lol
    Yep, everything you just said there, a Mac owner never even needs to worry about (too busy just using their computer)
    Honestly, why make computing 100x harder than it needs to be.
    I appreciate Windows has to work across many hardware configurations....
    But i have no idea why some people continue to bag out bits of fruit.
    They are light years ahead of the tangled mess of Windows Updates and Incompatibility issues Windows brings to your life.
    If u want to go on an expedition get a Land Rover, if u want to come home from an expedition get a Landcruiser!

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    It's all a matter of what you are used to. I have just "inherited" an iPhone5 from my daughter. After installing iTunes I had to jump through multiple hoops to even download a simple game. (why does it have the need to store all my well ordered music collection in it's own special repository???) Then my mp3 ringtones would not work without conversion. FWIW, iCloud or whatever they call their version of google apps wanted an 8 character password with at least 1 Capital and Number. My generic password fits that bill, but mister apple did not like that. Eventually I got into it by typing something like "Bloodyappl3sCanGetStu55ed" (no that is NOT it, but words to that effect). As it was, I had to get a new sim for the phone, no problem, job done. Put Sim in phone and turn it on. 1/2 hour later I need to make a phone call. Bloody iPhone needed me to set up 40million things before I could even call out! I'm standing in the aisle at COLES FFS! Here it is 24 hours later and I've finally got some semblance of a working phone. If I'd owned an Android, all I'd have had to do was plug it in and use Windoze explorer to copy most of the stuff I need. I used to have a bit of fruit on my desk, despite the fact that I was working in an IBM dealership at the time (we were owned by an Apple Store) so am familiar with some of the Apple product. Unfortunately with Apples, you do it their way or not at all. Most of industry and business tends to be Windows/Linux based anyway. There are very few areas where Apple still leads the pack, Music Production and Video editing are about it IIRC. The rest of the areas in which Apple would once excel seem to have been largely overtaken by Windows apps anyway. And, Yes, There are Viruses and Malware targeting iOS.
    I'm out of my mind, but feel free to leave a message...

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    Quote Originally Posted by lsemmens View Post
    It's all a matter of what you are used to. I have just "inherited" an iPhone5 from my daughter. After installing iTunes I had to jump through multiple hoops to even download a simple game. (why does it have the need to store all my well ordered music collection in it's own special repository???) Then my mp3 ringtones would not work without conversion. FWIW, iCloud or whatever they call their version of google apps wanted an 8 character password with at least 1 Capital and Number. My generic password fits that bill, but mister apple did not like that. Eventually I got into it by typing something like "Bloodyappl3sCanGetStu55ed" (no that is NOT it, but words to that effect). As it was, I had to get a new sim for the phone, no problem, job done. Put Sim in phone and turn it on. 1/2 hour later I need to make a phone call. Bloody iPhone needed me to set up 40million things before I could even call out! I'm standing in the aisle at COLES FFS! Here it is 24 hours later and I've finally got some semblance of a working phone. If I'd owned an Android, all I'd have had to do was plug it in and use Windoze explorer to copy most of the stuff I need. I used to have a bit of fruit on my desk, despite the fact that I was working in an IBM dealership at the time (we were owned by an Apple Store) so am familiar with some of the Apple product. Unfortunately with Apples, you do it their way or not at all. Most of industry and business tends to be Windows/Linux based anyway. There are very few areas where Apple still leads the pack, Music Production and Video editing are about it IIRC. The rest of the areas in which Apple would once excel seem to have been largely overtaken by Windows apps anyway. And, Yes, There are Viruses and Malware targeting iOS.
    The topic is about Macs, not iOS, which is indeed all locked up and only useful once jailbroken.

    Apparently you have not really used a Mac because unlike Windows you do NOT have to use it 'their' way.
    You can get rid of iTunes completely, run all the popular and very good open source software that is available for Windows and Linux and even run MS Office natively on a Mac. There are no restrictions and I even have KDE linux components running on a MacBook under OSX.

    Windows has become very restrictive, very picky with drivers, resource hungry and full of bloatware I don't need, which makes it overly complicated, vulnerable to errors and attacks and it is not backwards compatible for most of the special applications I need it for.
    The constant need for updates speaks for itself. I can not understand why people keep putting up with all that, plus the need for antivirus/antimalware/firewalls (that are still letting too much through). Virus/Malware on a Mac is a joke.
    Of course websites can cause havoc on any OS thanks to java script. The user(behaviour) must be up to date how to protect them self, not just the computer.

    The only difference I see is that there are more games available for Windows but the games and simulations I use are all available for OSX as well.

    I replaced Windows with Linux as my main operating system in 2005 when Ubuntu came out and Mac only a few years ago when relatively powerful second hand hardware was available at low cost. OSX is the best Linux distro for me. No more headaches.

    ...except for all those annoying mates, neighbours and rellos that keep coming to me with all their Window's problems.
    Last edited by Uncle Fester; 19-07-16 at 04:46 PM.
    Update: A deletion of features that work well and ain't broke but are deemed outdated in order to add things that are up to date and broken.
    Compatibility: A word soon to be deleted from our dictionaries as it is outdated.
    Humans: Entities that are not only outdated but broken... AI-self-learning-update-error...terminate...terminate...

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    Pity you aren't nearby OB, I could have had your Satellite up and running in a couple of hours. Even my latest one only took slightly longer than that and that included validating and installing W10.
    I'm out of my mind, but feel free to leave a message...

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    I use both pc and mac and even some variant of linux here at home. Of the lot I prefer the mac (not very good on linux), for ease of use and updating if required. Doesn't always have as many programs as pc based but there are ways of solving that issue, none of which are realy that hard.
    Had to learn mac because of the kids at a mac based school and even they enjoy it. Have a 2010 mac book pro and it still runs as good as the day I got it, bhad 2 windows lappies in the mean time and both have been formated and reloaded.
    Agree with you OB sometimes things are just harder than they should be

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    I have a Mac
    I hate iTunes, never use it, never will
    I have an iPhone, its just used as an iPod now.

    Mac as a machine, is brilliant.
    Windows as a machine, coupled with some variant of Windoze, is like trying to tell a 14 year old to do something, all it does is back chat, then refuses, then finally does it, but does it wrong, so you end up having to do it yourself. Thats Windoze.
    And lets not forget, you have to PAY for Windows and its Licensed and all that rubbish with keys etc.

    OSX is Free..... Just download it and install, if and when you want, no one forces you too or auto updates.

    The real point of this thread, wasn't to bag Windows (as there is just no challenge in that).

    But more the endless amount of experts that pipe up to denounce a Mac as some bit of fruit not fit to be called a PC.
    And i would say, 100% of those that do, don't even own a Mac nor have used one for more than 30minutes.
    Last edited by ol' boy; 19-07-16 at 03:59 PM.
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    Have to agree with you oceanboy.
    I have a mac and about 5 windows computers.
    Turned one of my Win 7 laptops on 2 days ago to update it. It was last updated in march. It is still searching for updates 2 days later even after multiple reboots....it's just disgusting how Macroshaft has crippled the win 7 experience to force you to go win 10.

    The mac meanwhile just powers along flawlessly
    Last edited by mandc; 19-07-16 at 03:59 PM.

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    Thats the thing mandc
    AFter my Win 7 Laptop did all these 12 updates, and rebooted 3 times and wasted 3 hours of life, while i was waiting to use MY computer.
    Then it finally rebooted and now runs slower than it did before!!!!

    You should honestly be able to sue Microsoft from crippling your machine while you are trying to work.
    If u want to go on an expedition get a Land Rover, if u want to come home from an expedition get a Landcruiser!

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    a mac is like a person who buys petrol when they need it. Windows is like the guy who drives across town to save 0.05 cents a litre. One thing i have noted lately on my macs is the speed or lack of that time machine updates are taking over the network.

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    Apple is a manufacturer with a product that it supplies updates for. Windows is a product that relies on vendors for driver updates. People expect their windows hardware to be supported for ever!

    ...........Leroy
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    it's not so much running for ever with support, but just to get it to run at times is more trouble than it is worth sometimes.

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    Ok Leroy, so what about Machines that are running fine, then after a Windoze update (that you didn't even ask for), they then no longer have WiFi or LAN?
    Especially when the update happened without announcement, in the background....

    The point of this thread, is about those that bag Macs, whom probably don't even own a Mac... Like Windoze is some kind of God OS.
    Last edited by ol' boy; 19-07-16 at 08:32 PM.
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    Havent owned a mac in years...don't feel like getting my head around one. Throw in an ssd, and windows runs like the wind so I don't have an issue with it. Each to his own.
    The fact that there's a highway to hell and a stairway to heaven says a lot about the anticipated traffic flow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by enf View Post
    Havent owned a mac in years...don't feel like getting my head around one. Throw in an ssd, and windows runs like the wind so I don't have an issue with it. Each to his own.
    My sister is an Apple devotee and nothing will dissuade her from the position. Which is fine by me. I'll keep using my crappy old Dell laptop which despite being quite long in the tooth still brings up a usable desktop under Windows 7 in a quarter of the time her far newer core i7 with 4Gb RAM Apple laptop takes to get to a similar position. Then there's her stoic "doesn't crash" mantra, which is even more enjoyable as I watch her have to reboot it to fix Skype and restart Adobe Premier yet again because it crashed after her very expensive firewire hard disks (all apple branded of course) randomly disconnected yet again.

    Apple computers are essentially PCs these days anyway. Apple ditched Motorola and then PPC completely ages ago and moved lock stock and barrel to Intel. Windows can be installed onto bare Apple hardware, and with a little tinkering to overcome licencing issues, Apple's OS can be installed on pretty much any PC hardware that supports UEFI.

    Apart from being locked into more expensive (for the consumer to buy that is*) hardware the difference these days is the OS, and Apple's OSes are not bullet proof. When it comes to viruses and trojans, Windows has been under a blow torch for a couple of decades and while its true there's plenty of nasties out there in the Windows world, Apple's protection systems are laughably easy to circumvent, so much so that they may as well not be there at all, with the only saving grace being Apple computers aren't anywhere near as targetted due to simple volumes of users. If Apple had the numbers that Windows does the miscreants would go after it just as hard.

    I'm sure someone will bring up Windows 10's "spying", but don't forget, Apple has been there, done that too.

    But each to their own. If someone likes Apple that's what they'll buy. If someone likes linux, they'll erase what ever was on the computer and install it.

    *apple has a loooooong history of buying in the absolutely cheapest crap they can get away with, modding it slightly to make it incompatible with the defacto standard, then selling it at a premium. Even from the early days the humble floppy disk drive of the Apple II demonstrates this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SpankedHam View Post
    Apple's protection systems are laughably easy to circumvent, so much so that they may as well not be there at all, with the only saving grace being Apple computers aren't anywhere near as targetted due to simple volumes of users. If Apple had the numbers that Windows does the miscreants would go after it just as hard.
    OSX is ranked third in the usage share of operating systems, almost 10%. That is NOT a small number for worldwide usage.


    Therefor with so many Apple haters like you, one would think it would be worthwhile for some to attack OSX but it simply doesn't happen. Maybe not that simple after all.
    Update: A deletion of features that work well and ain't broke but are deemed outdated in order to add things that are up to date and broken.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nomeat View Post
    OSX is ranked third in the usage share of operating systems, almost 10%. That is NOT a small number for worldwide usage.


    Therefor with so many Apple haters like you, one would think it would be worthwhile for some to attack OSX but it simply doesn't happen. Maybe not that simple after all.
    OS X's market share is piddly and is dwarfed even by IOS' (that's Apple's IOS, not Ciscos!) market share. For this very reason IOS devices are attacked far far far more often than traditional Apple PCs. Window's market share dwarfs both, combined so is it any wonder that Windows attracts the majority of the miscreant's attention? No. If this is 'hating' in your books, perhaps it's time to buy a dictionary.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SpankedHam View Post
    *apple has a loooooong history of buying in the absolutely cheapest crap they can get away with, modding it slightly to make it incompatible with the defacto standard, then selling it at a premium. Even from the early days the humble floppy disk drive of the Apple II demonstrates this.
    Apple sourced the cheapest crappiest floppy disk drive known to man, and then proceeded to en-cheapen it further by:

    - Removing the index sensor completely
    - Removing the home sensor completely
    - Removing the taut band positioning mechanism and replacing it with a cheap plastic disk and ball positioner that would place the heads in a slightly different position when stepped inwards instead of stepped outwards
    - Replacing the electronics with a cheap stripped down board with cheaper lower bandwidth head amps resulting in higher chances of read errors and lower numbers of flux reversals per inch - ie less data on the disk.
    - fitting a non-standard 26 pin DIP header to that board instead of the industry standard 34 pin edge connector preventing easy use of industry standard disk drives

    Then to top it all off, Apple charged the purchaser more for the Apple floppy disk drive than the going price for an industry standard floppy disk drive.

    If that wasn't enough a cheap custom (but based on standard GCR, but naturally a bit different) floppy disk controller card was built up using PALs offloading all the heavy lifting to the 6502 CPU in the Apple. Despite it being cheaply made, Apple charged more for that card than a comparable card, for other computers, based on WD's popular line of integrated FDCs that implemented industry standard FM and MFM.
    Last edited by SpankedHam; 17-08-16 at 05:32 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SpankedHam View Post
    Apple sourced the cheapest crappiest floppy disk drive known to man, and then proceeded to en-cheapen it further by:

    - Removing the index sensor completely
    - Removing the home sensor completely...

    ... Apple charged the purchaser more for the Apple floppy disk drive
    Having built a CP/M based machine and spent more than a little time fiddling with the BBC Model B back in the day, it was a shock to start work as a technician with an Apple dealer.

    Steve Wozniac's genius was in making minimal hardware do amazing things. He really was a genius, but sadly Apple's marketing people insisted on selling the Apple II at a premium price. Under the hood, just about everything was done in software to save $$$ and it impacted performance and reliability.

    The Apple II floppy drives were a nice little earner for Apple dealers back in the day. That distinctive "brraaaack" sound that emanates from Apple II disk drives at power up is the sound of the head assembly being smashed against its stop 39 times - all because Woz decided to save 5c by deleting the track zero sensor. Surprise! The engineers who designed the floppy drive actually knew what they were doing when they put that sensor in there. The constant abuse from smashing against the stop made the drive go out of radial alignment. We'd wait until there was a pile of faulty floppy drives, then I'd spend a morning with a special spiral track alignment disk and a CRO re-aligning the floppy drives. Of course, they'd eventually return for another alignment when the continued abuse caught up with them again.

    Contrast with the direct drive Mitsubishi drives I used in my CP/M machine. They still work 33 years on and have never needed any attention at all... despite being less expensive than the Apple II drive and storing four times as much data.

    The early Macintosh was supposed to be a low cost machine. The engineers sweated blood and tears designing a machine that could be sold for under US$1000, while making Apple a good profit. The trouble was that the marketing people decided that they could sell it for US$2500 - and did!

    These days, Apple has lost the "minimal hardware" thing - the hardware is pretty garden variety stuff. However, it is well supported and Apple retain the advantage of being the only major desktop computer manufacturer to build their own hardware and write their own OS.
    Last edited by shred; 26-08-16 at 09:00 PM.

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