There is something inherently wrong with the maths there. If you were to travel at the speed of light it would take ~2.5million years just to get to Andromeda? Certainly not the end of the Universe.Originally Posted by nomeat
At a distance of about 2.5 million light years, the Andromeda galaxy (also known as NGC 224 and M31) is the nearest galaxy to the Earth apart from smaller companion galaxies such as the Magellanic Clouds. Like the Milky Way, Andromeda is a spiral galaxy.
Cheers, Tiny
"You can lead a person to knowledge, but you can't make them think? If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.
The information is out there; you just have to let it in."
Exactly.
If we consider Time is another dimension people cannot fully apprehend yet, the time is something which is faster than the speed of light. Time will change at 2.5 MLN light years away the same way as it changes on earth. Hence I say Time is 2.5MLN light years faster than the speed of light in this particular case. Take another universe and time will be much faster.
You and Tiny are getting things mixed up. We are talikg about Time dilation here.
I quoted you above where you were talking about a passenger on a space ship moving at the speed of light and their aging.
For the person onboard, time becomes zero and reaches the end of the Universe instantly (if it were actually possible to achieve C)
For an 'observer' on Earth the ship would be just moving at C and would take ages for them to 'see' the ship get anywhere interesting.
...but with only the acceleration of 1G you could get possibly across the entire observed Universe in a lifetime because time gets eventually very slow for you (t ---> zero).
Last edited by Uncle Fester; 12-11-16 at 01:17 PM.
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I realise that, nomeat. The thing I do not agree with is that the time will stop for the traveler who travels at speed of light.
Also, you have to remember the time dilation works only if you take moving or stationary object as a basis here - you need two clocks synchronised initially to the same source.
Because the speed of light is not an infinite value then the traveler time in relation to the fixed object will not be 0. Pretty much for a person on earth time on the spaceship will be extremely slow but not stopped. At the same time, traveler will age normally according to his own clock (which travels on the same ship) but people he left behind on earth will age very quickly - but not instantaneously.
So, if the time doesn't stop for the traveler completely, there is possibly something which can travel faster.
Other words, as soon as someone can quantify how much INFINITY is we can talk about time = 0 on the ship which travels at the INFINITY speed.
Last edited by fromaron; 12-11-16 at 02:33 PM.
Perhaps you understand better when I say that time stands still if a static 'observer' could look at the clock on the ship moving at c.
One second of that clock WILL last forever !
Check for yourself using the time dilation velocity formula (without gravity dilation):
∆time at velocity v = ∆time at rest(here just 1 for 1 second) / √(1 - vˆ2 / cˆ2)
Although one divided by zero is mathematically not defined it approaches infinity when v approaches c.
You just can't get v past it c because there is nothing after forever. At least not in this Universe
Don't argue with me, Einstein did it !
... and no event has ever proven him wrong.
Last edited by Uncle Fester; 12-11-16 at 05:14 PM.
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Compatibility: A word soon to be deleted from our dictionaries as it is outdated.
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Mmmmm perhaps super symmetry suggests the constant is not a limit as such ?
I am pretty sure that interaction between these exceeds that of light speed?
And what about black holes and a feedback loop maintaining the expansion, I like the idea more so than some energy we cant see feel or measure, to me it seems like a way to get the maths to work coz the excess energy needed to continue expansion is at present beyond our understanding more so than a concrete theory.
But hey what do I know, interesting thread
Cheers
No Fromaron, When you turn on the light switch and let the photons to be free, they don't race away at the speed of light.
But they are light! I hear you say. Yes, but the speed that light is traveling and the "speed of light" aka "C" are different. One is the speed of your car and the other is the slope of the road. (oh ok, the speed limit for simplicity).
Even more interesting I can show you photons traveling faster than the speed of light. Cherenkov Radiation is the example, but don't be fooled. This is (gamma) photons traveling faster than (light) photons and neither of which is traveling faster than C "the speed of light".
Maths. A > B !> C
The way the universe works isn't that there is a signpost on the side of the road saying, "Speed Limit 100kph". For it you went faster, you wouldn't see the sign
A more correct way to think of it is that you are traveling from West to East in a theoretical flat universe. The harder you push in an easterly direction the more the universe will increase the slope of the road.
At 3x10^8 ms^-1 "C" the road is vertical. You cannot move further east no matter how hard you push.
"If that person turns the light torch the generated light beam should travel with double speed of light for the person who is stationary on earth."
No it doesn't. This is Netwonian thinking and it doesn't work for Relativity.
If we are in a spaceship traveling at 90% the speed of light (0.9C) and I shine a laser beam at you in the front of the ship, those photons travel to you AT the speed of light ('at' being the generalisation).
Our space ship is traveling at 0.9C and the photons are traveling at 1.0C. You're thinking is that if you can see the photons like ping pong balls, that you will witness them traveling towards you at 0.1C.
This is not the case because of Time Dialation. Time is slowed down for you on the ship. As as you witness the photons traveling towards you, you're 'thinking slower' and you witness the photons traveling towards you at C with respect to your relative position and motion.
To give another perspective of it. We look at your brain traveling at 0.9C. The protons, neutrons, electrons and photons all have relativistic mass because of your velocity. That heavier electron whizzing around that heavier proton in a hydrogen molecule orbits slower because of the extra mass. Everything is slower. Your thinking is slower, you movement is slower, and even the watch on your arm ticks slower. But when your slow brain looks at the slow watch, they are in the same reference frame so, everything looks and feels normal.
The frame reference is the same for you and me on the ship. The laser light I shine at you is green, you see it as green. You hold up a mirror and I see it as green.
Nomeat is in his spaceship and we fly past him. He can see the laser through the window. It appears the laser I'm shining is Blue and as we fly past the laser he sees in the mirror is Red. While you and I still see it as Green.
The reason is our reference frame is the same and his is different. That's relativity. The speed of light is constant. If your reference frame is changing, the speed of light doesn't change, your ability to measure it changes.
Last edited by trash; 14-11-16 at 09:43 AM.
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