Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 53

Thread: Senator on Gravy train says if you get a pension you are poor and should be ashamed

  1. #21
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    1,433
    Thanks
    934
    Thanked 1,661 Times in 724 Posts
    Rep Power
    837
    Reputation
    32307

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by enf View Post
    Zerohedge? Jesus man, two thirds of the editorial team who published under a pseudonym left due to allegations of various mental issues....sorry. I will stick to reading a variety of established media sources to try to form an accurate opinion.

    The man is (according to heaps of independent analysts) a napoleonic narcissist. Even Hitler made some good decisions. Now, I don't know what he will be like overall, but all of my 63 years of experience dealing with my fellow human beings tells me he is an unstable nutcase.

    Unlike many on this board however, I could be wrong. Thats why I'll wait and see. The signs to me are poor....and I reckon he will betray his voter base in a heartbeat, just like most of his pre election promisies....but thats just a judgement call based on experience, nothing more.
    So you're saying then that the reports on ZeroHedge that the Republican Congress voted to strip the Ethics Office of its independence, the subsequent savaging of them by Trump on Twitter, and the then subsequent backdown by the Republican Congress on the issue, are all just figments of imagination of the mentally disturbed editorial team at ZeroHedge?

    And I guess you know the real truth of the matter from your extensive 63 years experience of contact with the human race

    Thanks for the benefit of your extensive experience, but I think I'll stick with those who are a little closer to the action.

    For someone who says "Now, I don't know what he will be like overall,........" you sure seem to have made up your mind already.

    As for the Hitler reference..........you've heard of Godwins Law, haven't you.

    Congratulations....you just invoked same.



  • #22
    Super Moderator
    enf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Canberra
    Age
    70
    Posts
    17,789
    Thanks
    16,844
    Thanked 35,066 Times in 9,091 Posts
    Rep Power
    13721
    Reputation
    646529

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Thala Dan View Post
    So you're saying then that the reports on ZeroHedge that the Republican Congress voted to strip the Ethics Office of its independence, the subsequent savaging of them by Trump on Twitter, and the then subsequent backdown by the Republican Congress on the issue, are all just figments of imagination of the mentally disturbed editorial team at ZeroHedge?

    And I guess you know the real truth of the matter from your extensive 63 years experience of contact with the human race

    Thanks for the benefit of your extensive experience, but I think I'll stick with those who are a little closer to the action.

    For someone who says "Now, I don't know what he will be like overall,........" you sure seem to have made up your mind already.

    As for the Hitler reference..........you've heard of Godwins Law, haven't you.

    Congratulations....you just invoked same.
    Oh FFS...ok, be as sarcastic as you like, but at least be factual. I said nothing about extensive experience at all, just experience. I trust my judgement, but unlike others here I could be wrong...I'm not the slightest shy about admitting that either, unlike some on this board (as I said too). You don't HAVE to stoop to attempted ridicule, but feel free to do so if thats what floats your boat....

    I'll back my judgement of human behaviour over most others, that's all.
    The fact that there's a highway to hell and a stairway to heaven says a lot about the anticipated traffic flow.

  • #23
    Senior Member
    Guiseppe's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    1,604
    Thanks
    1,057
    Thanked 413 Times in 279 Posts
    Rep Power
    367
    Reputation
    7224

    Default

    If Australia is a democracy why, then, is voting compulsory?

    "What has changed between the arrival of the First Fleet and today?"
    "Wearing leg irons is now not required."

  • The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Guiseppe For This Useful Post:

    enf (06-01-17),Thala Dan (06-01-17)

  • #24
    Super Moderator
    enf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Canberra
    Age
    70
    Posts
    17,789
    Thanks
    16,844
    Thanked 35,066 Times in 9,091 Posts
    Rep Power
    13721
    Reputation
    646529

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Guiseppe View Post
    Interesting...these things don't always mean much as there's too many factors for each of them, but they are DEFINITELY ending the entitlement age aren't they. Jeez, in just six months too....they have NO IDEA do they?

    As for Susan Ley, I don't get the difficulty....all she has to do is explain why she was there....although the expenses claim should state that. If in fact she was there for legitimate business, that she went off and bought a property as well seems irrelevant to me. In fact I'm jealous. Although it DOES look bad on the surface.

    I have a contact in the Legitimate Parliamentary Expenses (formerly Entitlements) section of Finance. I'm having a drink with this person tomorrow, so I'll try to learn more and place it here.
    The fact that there's a highway to hell and a stairway to heaven says a lot about the anticipated traffic flow.

  • #25
    Registered User

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Discovery Coast Qld
    Age
    60
    Posts
    1,127
    Thanks
    114
    Thanked 370 Times in 228 Posts
    Rep Power
    353
    Reputation
    6687

    Default

    Libertarians are often the biggest hypocrites of the ideological spectrum.
    Their hero, Rand is a case in point.

    Ayn Rand's spent decades denying of the link between smoking and lung cancer (much of the modus operandi for the climate change debate happened decades earlier with conservatives siding with tobacco companies, didn't work out well for them).

    She recants after contracting lung cancer.
    Then after decades decrying universal healthcare she... seeks treatment within the public health system!

  • The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Dishtrackted For This Useful Post:

    alpha0ne (07-01-17),Thala Dan (06-01-17)

  • #26
    Premium Member
    alpha0ne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Mandurah WA
    Age
    68
    Posts
    1,443
    Thanks
    3,455
    Thanked 2,988 Times in 813 Posts
    Rep Power
    1427
    Reputation
    59477

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by enf View Post
    I have a contact in the Legitimate Parliamentary Expenses (formerly Entitlements) section of Finance. I'm having a drink with this person tomorrow, so I'll try to learn more and place it here.
    Looking forward to your findings, though I think telling the truth (whistleblowing) these days can get you in all sorts of trouble

  • The Following User Says Thank You to alpha0ne For This Useful Post:

    VroomVroom (07-01-17)

  • #27
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    2,235
    Thanks
    2,822
    Thanked 1,514 Times in 835 Posts
    Rep Power
    796
    Reputation
    27703

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by alpha0ne View Post
    Looking forward to your findings, though I think telling the truth (whistleblowing) these days can get you in all sorts of trouble
    +1 , corruption can run deep . i worked for a major bank in Sydney prior to my early retirement , and when i reported corrupt behavior the bunch of turds suddenly turned on me and made me out as the bad guy.
    i ended up being proven right but the scum responsible got thiers in the end.

  • #28
    Super Moderator
    enf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Canberra
    Age
    70
    Posts
    17,789
    Thanks
    16,844
    Thanked 35,066 Times in 9,091 Posts
    Rep Power
    13721
    Reputation
    646529

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by alpha0ne View Post
    Looking forward to your findings, though I think telling the truth (whistleblowing) these days can get you in all sorts of trouble
    OK...had a few Tsingtaos today and got the guff as it now stands. As I think I said somewhere, I am still surprised that no one knows. The opposition are going to do what they are doing because thats what oppositions do.

    The parliamentary rules are quite clear. All a Federal politician has to do is make an official visit. They could legitimately claim a flight just to visit an electoral office, and a minister can visit any office. Susan Ley apparently made an announcement at a Brisbane gathering and that was that. Once that is done, all federal MPs are pretty much entitled to visit anyone they want....absurd I know.

    I asked if they could do this over an extended time period and I was then told that yes, they could. So it appears that Ley is fine technically, although it looks bad. She bought an apartment while there and thats fine as far as the rules go. Although I made it clear that to call them "rules" is a stretch.

    He also mentioned that both major parties seem to have pulled back on these attacks overall due to the embarrassment of jumping on a band wagon only to look like fools when the facts come out. Dreyfus or "Doofus" as he is known as is a noteworthy example.

    They just don't want to change and will resist to the max.....
    The fact that there's a highway to hell and a stairway to heaven says a lot about the anticipated traffic flow.

  • #29
    Super Moderator
    enf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Canberra
    Age
    70
    Posts
    17,789
    Thanks
    16,844
    Thanked 35,066 Times in 9,091 Posts
    Rep Power
    13721
    Reputation
    646529

    Default

    Now it seems that she may be a serial offender....



    I didn't discuss any of this with my friend because I didn't know about them....pity. These 'drunk with the power ' clowns are clueless.
    The fact that there's a highway to hell and a stairway to heaven says a lot about the anticipated traffic flow.

  • #30
    Super Moderator
    enf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Canberra
    Age
    70
    Posts
    17,789
    Thanks
    16,844
    Thanked 35,066 Times in 9,091 Posts
    Rep Power
    13721
    Reputation
    646529

    Default

    Well..well..well..

    The fact that there's a highway to hell and a stairway to heaven says a lot about the anticipated traffic flow.

  • #31
    Administrator
    mtv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    19,909
    Thanks
    7,518
    Thanked 15,074 Times in 6,765 Posts
    Rep Power
    5651
    Reputation
    239465

    Default

    ABC News has analysed three years' worth of the minister's travel reports and found she travelled to the Gold Coast — where she and her partner own two properties — 20 times.

    "I didn't contact the agent about this property, I didn't make inquiries about it, I didn't make any phone calls, I sent no emails."
    Not quite sure how one inspects a property and registers for an auction without any contact or inquiries whatsoever.

    20 trips to the Gold Coast.... seems a lot, including New Years Eve trips.... dedicated politicians working on NYE is seems.

    Not a very smart move on her part to not declare the 'coincidence' of 'right place at the right time'... given the downfall of Bronwyn Bishop's 'Choppergate' in the not-too-distant past.

  • #32
    Senior Member
    fandtm666's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    5,502
    Thanks
    244
    Thanked 990 Times in 465 Posts
    Rep Power
    1190
    Reputation
    40447

    Default

    She must have been schooled at the at the same place as Bronwyn Bishop

    she is a gonner



    On 2013, Ms Ley flew to the Gold Coast from Albury on December 30, claiming $575.

    She claimed a further $335 for taxis on December 30 and December 31.

    After a trip to bring in New Year's the following year, Ms Ley and a family member flew from Coolangatta airport to Sydney on January 1, costing tax payers a further $269 per ticket.

    Critics of Ms Ley's New Year's Eve jaunts said both trips were unusual, and that she should explain the nature of the official business that had warranted her expenses claims.

    Ms Ley said both New Year's Eve trips were to meet with a prominent Queensland businesswoman, who she declined to name.
    dont say linux if i wanted it id install it

  • The Following User Says Thank You to fandtm666 For This Useful Post:

    softel (09-01-17)

  • #33
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    1,433
    Thanks
    934
    Thanked 1,661 Times in 724 Posts
    Rep Power
    837
    Reputation
    32307

    Default


  • The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Thala Dan For This Useful Post:

    alpha0ne (09-01-17),shred (11-01-17)

  • #34
    Administrator
    admin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Victoria
    Age
    56
    Posts
    31,150
    Thanks
    2,238
    Thanked 13,731 Times in 5,823 Posts
    Rep Power
    4553
    Reputation
    165805

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by enf View Post
    Oh FFS...ok, be as sarcastic as you like, but at least be factual.
    Just to reinforce this, by all means you can all debate anything you like.

    But present facts, not fiction, not opinion sites or anything else as facts. There are plenty of other sites out there that allow wild unsubstantiated bullshit. This ain't one of them.

    (The above is not aimed at any one person, generally discussion on here is generally pretty good. But its not hard to see some wild bullshit appearing in this thread)

  • #35
    Premium Member
    alpha0ne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Mandurah WA
    Age
    68
    Posts
    1,443
    Thanks
    3,455
    Thanked 2,988 Times in 813 Posts
    Rep Power
    1427
    Reputation
    59477

    Default

    Education Minister Simon Birmingham has defended his colleague, saying that "extensive travel is of course a clear part of her responsibilities".
    Senator Birmingham told the ABC he did not believe that Ms Ley had breached the Ministerial Code of Conduct.
    "I appreciate nobody, nobody likes to have discussions about politicians' entitlements, pay, travel," he said.
    IMHO the only ppl who dont like to talk about politicians entitlements is the ones with their snout firmly in the trough, I think Mr Birmingham should be audited next

  • The Following User Says Thank You to alpha0ne For This Useful Post:

    enf (09-01-17)

  • #36
    Super Moderator
    enf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Canberra
    Age
    70
    Posts
    17,789
    Thanks
    16,844
    Thanked 35,066 Times in 9,091 Posts
    Rep Power
    13721
    Reputation
    646529

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by alpha0ne View Post
    IMHO the only ppl who dont like to talk about politicians entitlements is the ones with their snout firmly in the trough, I think Mr Birmingham should be audited next
    But that's ALL of them.....

    No, in fact the FIRST who should be investigated is the person who is complaining the loudest.....not excusing Mr Birmingham, but as I posted earlier, the accusers are usually found to be just as bad.

    His statement that "extensive travel is of course a clear part of her responsibilities" is stupid and absurd. It MAY indeed be part of her responsibilities, but only in an official capacity. Given the "guidelines" I gave, you would have to be a complete moron to get caught....which is scary in itself if you think about it.....
    The fact that there's a highway to hell and a stairway to heaven says a lot about the anticipated traffic flow.

  • The Following User Says Thank You to enf For This Useful Post:

    alpha0ne (09-01-17)

  • #37
    Senior Member
    fandtm666's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    5,502
    Thanks
    244
    Thanked 990 Times in 465 Posts
    Rep Power
    1190
    Reputation
    40447

    Default

    dear ohh dear wonder if she will supply her own shovel

    from bad to worse




    Embattled health minister Sussan Ley's use of taxpayer funding is again under fire following revelations she spent $13,000 to pilot private planes along busy capital city routes.

    The Age reports Ms Ley, who is a licensed commercial pilot, charged $6300 to fly from Canberra to Melbourne in July 2014 and another $7000 to travel from Canberra to Adelaide in May 2015.

    Ms Ley's social media accounts indicate she was in the cockpit, the report claims.
    dont say linux if i wanted it id install it

  • #38
    Premium Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    3,688
    Thanks
    1,938
    Thanked 2,104 Times in 1,050 Posts
    Rep Power
    968
    Reputation
    32468

    Default

    Note she purchased a flat for $795,000 from a Liberal donor
    This takes me back to the bottom of the harbour scheme when i was doing renos for the people concerned, they would buy a house spend thousands renovating and then sell the asset at a fraction of the cost to an associate, ie Pay off and launder money, associate retains the house for 12 months and then sells and realize the capital gains
    Now I am not suggestion for one moment that this was the case, but it would be interesting to see whether the true market value of this property aligns with what she has paid, or the donor had been a beneficiary of a contract!!!!!
    Last edited by allover; 11-01-17 at 10:14 AM.
    There is a fine line between "Hobby" and "Madness"

  • #39
    Super Moderator
    enf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Canberra
    Age
    70
    Posts
    17,789
    Thanks
    16,844
    Thanked 35,066 Times in 9,091 Posts
    Rep Power
    13721
    Reputation
    646529

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by allover View Post
    Note she purchased a flat for $795,000 from a Liberal donor
    This takes me back to the bottom of the harbour scheme when i was doing renos for the people concerned, they would buy a house spend thousands renovating and then sell the asset at a fraction of the cost to an associate, ie Pay off and launder money, associate retains the house for 12 months and then sells and realize the capital gains
    Now I am not suggestion for one moment that this was the case, but it would be interesting to see whether the true market value of this property aligns with what she has paid, or the donor had been a beneficiary of a contract!!!!!
    I think you may be overthinking the situation....but I guess we'll see. No one so stupid should be in government....given the flexibility of the system that these feds (all of them) keep in place, she is a moron.

    At least she was stood down...perhaps she should have just changed her name by deed poll to Craig Thompson.

    The system is so open to abuse, we only get the froth from the top. Anecdotal evidence given to me indicates that political pressure from both the opposition and the government is such that quite often it is applied to senior public servants to such an extent that they regularly direct their more junior staff to just pay the claim. Now, the people I know will always get this in writing and file it away before doing so, as any other course of action is just plain dumb. But there are still plenty of potential scapegoats around who don't do this.

    There was an article in the Financial Review a couple of years ago about the Belcher Report into expenses....this is from that....and has a few potential remedies...see what you think. I kind of like the "double demerit points".

    Belcher Review said system open to abuse

    The evolution of ad hoc allowances for Federal MPs led to the 2010 review of parliamentary entitlements, known as the Belcher Review.

    It found a mishmash of allowances – from electoral to travel – which had grown more complex and harder to police.

    “The committee observed a system of entitlements derived from a number of sources which, over time, has become less transparent as the number and diversity of benefits provided to senators and members have increased," the report found.

    The Belcher review, most of which was not adopted by federal parliament, said the current complex system of federal parliamentary entitlements was open to potential abuse.“Many of the entitlements lack clear boundaries and there are many shades of grey that can contribute to inadvertent or deliberate breaches of the entitlement rules - the consequences of which can damage the reputation of individual parliamentarians and the institution of parliament," it found.

    It attempted to streamline the system by scrapping the stand-alone entitlement for politician study tours which had long become the focus of community anger. Labor MP Bernie Ripoll has been ridiculed for claiming an entitlement to see cycling in Europe.

    Professor Allan Fels – the former Australian Competition and Consumer Commission boss who helped compile the Belcher Review – says the generous entitlements for MPs across the country stemmed from the view they were comparatively under-paid compared to the private sector.

    “Basically, politicians want more pay. Basically the public outcry stops that. So instead they get a lot of entitlements and allowances," Fels told ABC Radio on Tuesday.
    Ambiguous rules

    Each state has its own system for politicians allowances and expenses.

    In Queensland, a tightening of the travel allowance following rorting allegations in 1992 has resulted in MPs trips being assessed by the Clerk of the Parliament.

    Queensland MPs have to certify they were on legitimate parliamentary business which is subsequently vetted by the Clerk.

    South Australia and Western Australia have legislation that authorises an independent body to determine parliamentary entitlements and authorises parliament or the executive to provide for specific additional entitlements.

    Windsor believes there is no need for another inquiry into politicians entitlements , saying MPs should err on the side of caution.

    “I don’t know what an inquiry would come up with that common sense wouldn’t," he says.

    “But there are always going to be some legitimate grey areas."

    Communications Minister Malcolm Turnbull admitted the rules for MP's expenses had been “a little bit ambiguous" in the past.

    He urged his colleagues to use their judgment and err on the side of not making expenses claims.

    “I think, by and large, given there is a degree of ambiguity in these rules and a degree of judgment is called for, the better course of action is to err on a more conservative side and if there is any doubt, then don’t make a claim," he said on Sunday.
    Double demerit points for offenders

    The Greens have proposed an Integrity Commissioner to help tidy up the system.

    But Independent Senator Nick Xenophon says this will just add another layer of bureaucracy.

    He has proposed tightening guidelines for MPs which would help trim millions of dollars off the annual travel bill for federal politicians which he claims cost $34.5 million in taxpayer’s money in 2012.

    “Most politicians want to do the right thing but there are some grey areas that can fix up the system," says Xenophon.

    He says MPs should be required to fly economy rather than business class; scrap the default of fully-flexible air-fares as well as provide a two-sentence statement to the Department of Finance when claiming travel allowance which would be publicly released. (At the moment, all they are required to do is tick a box saying they are claiming travel allowance).

    But, most controversially, Xenophon believes MPs should be forced to face “double-demerit points" if they incorrectly claim travel entitlements or allowances.

    “If MPs are forced to pay double the amount they [incorrectly] claimed that will focus the minds of all of us, including me, to make sure we claim properly," says Xenophon.

    Another idea is politicians facing the same scrutiny as the private sector does from the Australian Taxation Office when attempting to claim work trips or conferences.

    “If a business person goes away for two weeks on a conference and there is one week of business , they can claim half of cost of airfares and accommodation.

    “That’s fair enough," he says.

    “The same rules that apply to business people or taxpayers should apply to politicians

    Australia is not alone in some politicians attempting to game the system.

    After a much-publicised media expose on wide-spread rorting of entitlements, the United Kingdom established an Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority which now has sole responsibility for setting and administering the rules on MP’s expenses.

    Rules are based on reimbursement of tightly controlled expenses up to certain financial limits. All expense claims and payments are now published.

    The European Union has a flat-rate allowance for MPs which is expected to cover the costs of running a member’s office including the costs of travel within their home country.

    The Australian Financial Review
    The fact that there's a highway to hell and a stairway to heaven says a lot about the anticipated traffic flow.

  • #40
    Super Moderator
    enf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Canberra
    Age
    70
    Posts
    17,789
    Thanks
    16,844
    Thanked 35,066 Times in 9,091 Posts
    Rep Power
    13721
    Reputation
    646529

    Default

    Bill Leak from todays Australian....

    The fact that there's a highway to hell and a stairway to heaven says a lot about the anticipated traffic flow.

  • Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

    Bookmarks

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •