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Thread: Bosch 6000 - Smoke detector triggering alarm when NOT armed - Help Needed

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    Question Bosch 6000 - Smoke detector triggering alarm when NOT armed - Help Needed

    Hi all,

    Finishing an upgrade to Bosch 6000

    I am having an issue with configuring a 4 WIRE Smoke Detector to the (Bosch 6000)

    When connected to the old alarm, the wires on the Smoke Detector are
    • Red Wire > + Positive (Smoke Detector)
    • Black Wire > Negative (Smoke Detector)
    • White Wire (+ IN LINE 6K8 resistor) > NC (Smoke Detector)
    • Blue Wire > C (Smoke Detector)


    When I connect these wires to the Bosch 6000, I get an immediate triggering of the alarm when it is NOT armed
    • Red Wire > +12V (Bosch 6000)
    • Black Wire > OUTPUT 3 (Bosch 6000)
    • White Wire > ZONE (Bosch 6000)
    • Blue Wire > GND (Bosch 6000)


    I would like this Smoke Detector to be Zone 9 with Zone 1 being a PIR (which is working fine)



    Assistance appreciated

    Thanks
    Last edited by Davos; 22-01-17 at 01:35 PM.



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    What have you set your global end of line resistor value to? Are you zone doubling?

    Quote Originally Posted by Davos View Post
    Hi all,

    Finishing an upgrade to Bosch 6000

    I am having an issue with configuring a 4 WIRE Smoke Detector to the (Bosch 6000)

    When connected to the old alarm, the wires on the Smoke Detector are
    • Red Wire > + Positive (Smoke Detector)
    • Black Wire > Negative (Smoke Detector)
    • White Wire (+ IN LINE 6K8 resistor) > NC (Smoke Detector)
    • Blue Wire > C (Smoke Detector)


    When I connect these wires to the Bosch 6000, I get an immediate triggering of the alarm when it is NOT armed
    • Red Wire > +12V (Bosch 6000)
    • Black Wire > OUTPUT 3 (Bosch 6000)
    • White Wire > ZONE (Bosch 6000)
    • Blue Wire > GND (Bosch 6000)


    I would like this Smoke Detector to be Zone 9 with Zone 1 being a PIR (which is working fine)



    Assistance appreciated

    Thanks

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    Hi Gristle,


    Quote Originally Posted by gristle View Post
    What have you set your global end of line resistor value to?
    What ever is the default on the Bosch 6000

    Where in programming do you view / change the EOL resistor value ?


    Quote Originally Posted by gristle View Post
    Are you zone doubling?
    Do you mean going from 8 to 16 zones ?

    If so, I tried the Smoke detector on Zone 8 and Zone 8 (mirror zone 1) and I get the same issue with either

    Is there a setting in programming I need to change if going from 8 Zones to 16 Zones ?


    Thanks

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    You will find almost all panels require an EOL value that is either pre-set or can be set by the installer. You'll need the installer code and find a multitude of options under the Input menu and then Global EOL value. If you are not using an expander card then the only way the panel can differentiate between input one and nine is via the EOL value! It's all in the manual and if you have an existing zone 1 and are using the same physical input for input 9, then you need to set up zone doubling in the global EOL menu. That is where you need to start. You should also be checking with a multimeter what resistance you have on your cable to the smoky first. Post your set up and value with your meter and let's go from there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gristle View Post
    You will find almost all panels require an EOL value that is either pre-set or can be set by the installer. You'll need the installer code and find a multitude of options under the Input menu and then Global EOL value. If you are not using an expander card then the only way the panel can differentiate between input one and nine is via the EOL value! It's all in the manual and if you have an existing zone 1 and are using the same physical input for input 9, then you need to set up zone doubling in the global EOL menu. That is where you need to start. You should also be checking with a multimeter what resistance you have on your cable to the smoky first. Post your set up and value with your meter and let's go from there.
    Hi gristle,

    Yes, I have the installer code and installer manual

    I looked at manual and 3-4-0 lists the default value for the Bosch 6000 which is 3k3 Ohm

    Zone 1 is a PIR and all working OK

    I can use Zone 8 or Zone 9 (shared with Zone 1)

    Happy to get it just to work with Zone 8 for expediency

    However preference is to use Zone 9 so I have some dedicated spare zones free

    Thanks

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    Hi Davos,

    Then if using input 8, are you using a 3k3 resistor? There is an option in that menu to change your EOL settings to 3k3 for inputs 1-8 and 6k8 for 9-16. You'll need to do that if you plan on using input 9. What resistance do you have on the circuit? Is the resistor installed correctly and are you seeing the correct resistance when the input is sealed with your meter? The Solution 6000 will also show you current resistance of each input - there is an option to see this in within the inputs menu. I haven't got the manual in front of me, but its all there.

    Start with your meter first and make sure your sealed resistance is what it should be otherwise yes it will unseal and alarm regardless of whether the panel is armed or not.

    Cheers

    Quote Originally Posted by Davos View Post
    Hi gristle,

    Yes, I have the installer code and installer manual

    I looked at manual and 3-4-0 lists the default value for the Bosch 6000 which is 3k3 Ohm

    Zone 1 is a PIR and all working OK

    I can use Zone 8 or Zone 9 (shared with Zone 1)

    Happy to get it just to work with Zone 8 for expediency

    However preference is to use Zone 9 so I have some dedicated spare zones free

    Thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by gristle View Post
    Hi Davos,

    Then if using input 8, are you using a 3k3 resistor? There is an option in that menu to change your EOL settings to 3k3 for inputs 1-8 and 6k8 for 9-16. You'll need to do that if you plan on using input 9. What resistance do you have on the circuit? Is the resistor installed correctly and are you seeing the correct resistance when the input is sealed with your meter? The Solution 6000 will also show you current resistance of each input - there is an option to see this in within the inputs menu. I haven't got the manual in front of me, but its all there.

    Start with your meter first and make sure your sealed resistance is what it should be otherwise yes it will unseal and alarm regardless of whether the panel is armed or not.

    Cheers
    Hi gristle,

    your a champ

    That was easy to fix and all seems to work fine

    I checked the resistance levels via the panel and I get:

    ---------------------------------------
    Zone 1 PIR: EOL = ~02300 ohms (Resistor 3k3 ORANGE)
    Zone 9 SMOKE: EOL = ~02300 ohms (Resistor 6k8 BLUE)

    Zone 2 PIR: EOL = ~03400 ohms (Resistor 3k3 ORANGE)
    ---------------------------------------

    I am not an expert on resistance and ohms but

    Can you confirm if those values look right ?

    Thanks
    Last edited by Davos; 23-01-17 at 09:02 PM.

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    Hi Davos those values do not look correct. Again they should match your global EOL values. With the greatest of respect you need a basic understanding of electronics, resistors and circuits to install an alarm system. Yes there can be a crossover with IT in some aspects of an alarm but the fundamentals are electronics. I and other techs are happy to offer some advice but it seems you are starting completely from scratch. It's going to take a long time to talk you through every aspect of the install via a forum. Buy yourself a multimeter first if you are intent on doing this and look at the wiring diagram in the quick start guide. Your resistance when sealed must be correct. 6k8 is 6800 ohms. 3K3 is 3300 ohms. You're a long way off that.

    I'm in Melbourne if you get stuck.We install 6000s routinely and in my opinion they're a great panel.

    Putting together an alarm with no knowledge will bring you unstuck and you must contemplate whether you'll end up with a reliable, properly wired and tested panel if it's a DIY job.

    That being said let us all know how you go if you go it alone and get your inputs wired correctly with the correct resistance. Your other post regarding the reed - wire your resistor in circuit and connect your 2 wires to a spare zone and set up as a chime zone.

    Cheers

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    Hi gristle,

    Quote Originally Posted by gristle View Post
    ...but it seems you are starting completely from scratch.
    I am not starting from scratch ... just been a few years since my last install

    Quote Originally Posted by gristle View Post
    Your resistance when sealed must be correct. 6k8 is 6800 ohms. 3K3 is 3300 ohms. You're a long way off that.
    The (digiflex) user manuals are so badly written ...

    The SMOKE detector has more than 4 connections (+, +, -, A, A >>> then NC, C, NO)

    All I would need is a photo of a correctly wired PIR and SMOKE and a resistor (that is connected to a Bosch) and I can work it out from that

    Quote Originally Posted by gristle View Post
    I'm in Melbourne if you get stuck.We install 6000s routinely and in my opinion they're a great panel.
    What do you charge for an install ?
    Please msg me your standard labour costs to install a 6000 (assuming the wiring has already been laid and I am supplying all alarm parts)
    i.e. Costs to connect devices, setup panel and commission

    Quote Originally Posted by gristle View Post
    Your other post regarding the reed - wire your resistor in circuit and connect your 2 wires to a spare zone and set up as a chime zone.
    Thanks - I will try that

    Although the previous alarm panel that had the reed connected did not have a resistor in circuit at the control panel
    ...unless its at the reed end ... mmm ... I will need to check that out tomorrow

    Quote Originally Posted by gristle View Post
    those values do not look correct. Again they should match your global EOL values.
    ...Buy yourself a multimeter first if you are intent on doing this and look at the wiring diagram in the quick start guide.
    Your resistance when sealed must be correct. 6k8 is 6800 ohms. 3K3 is 3300 ohms. You're a long way off that.

    That being said let us all know how you go if you go it alone and get your inputs wired correctly with the correct resistance.
    Thanks for your help to date, I really do appreciate it

    Although looking through posts on this forum, installers seem to spend more time laughing & trashing people who ask basic security questions

    Maybe I will search for an YouTube Install Alarm How-To video
    ... well that's IT for you
    Last edited by Davos; 24-01-17 at 08:04 AM.

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    Hi Davos, I've PM'd you - there is a lot to go through in your post here and it's starting to get into the territory of learning fundamentals such as EOL (Yes END of line) resistors (NOT IN THE PANEL ), wiring diagrams, etc, but brief answers below...

    Quote Originally Posted by Davos View Post
    Hi gristle,



    I am not starting from scratch ... just been a few years since my last install
    Maybe the last one didn't involve you needing to set up resistors, but that is where a lot of your problems appear to be...

    Quote Originally Posted by Davos View Post
    The (digiflex) user manuals are so badly written ...
    They are actually laid out in order - hardware layout, wiring diagram for the PCB, wiring diagram for detectors (all showing EOL options) and then in the same order as your menu within the panel, just takes some time to understand, but the logic is that they mirror the panel menu tree. Once you understand the difference between Access, Inputs, Outputs, Comms, Devices and System, you will find the manual is actually very well laid out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Davos View Post
    The SMOKE detector has more than 4 connections (+, +, -, A, A >>> then NC, C, NO)

    All I would need is a photo of a correctly wired PIR and SMOKE and a resistor (that is connected to a Bosch) and I can work it out from that
    The reed switch doesn't need power! That's why you only have 2 wires.



    Quote Originally Posted by Davos View Post
    What do you charge for an install ?
    Please msg me your standard labour costs to install a 6000 (assuming the wiring has already been laid and I am supplying all alarm parts)
    i.e. Costs to connect devices, setup panel and commission
    PM'd you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Davos View Post
    Thanks - I will try that

    Although the previous alarm panel that had the reed connected did not have a resistor in circuit at the control panel
    ...unless its at the reed end ... mmm ... I will need to check that out tomorrow
    Resistors should always be END of line. They are there to monitor the device and report a tamper, alarm, short or open. Putting them in the panel is a cheat's way of installing and defeats the purpose.

    Thanks for your help to date, I really do appreciate it

    Although looking through posts on this forum, installers seem to spend more time laughing & trashing people who ask basic security questions[/QUOTE]

    Happy to help and yes, there are some snipers out there in keyboard land. This would be fixed if there were 2 forums - one for installers and one for DIYers. Snipers can then leave DIYers alone and concentrate on the pro's forum as I think some of them just get frustrated with the "interruption". Forums should be there to help - but I understand both sides - best to split it in my opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Davos View Post
    Maybe I will search for an YouTube Install Alarm How-To video
    ... well that's IT for you

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