Penalty rates

[softel]

Abbot on the news today is saying that penalty rates are no longer relevant in today's modern society.
Does he expect people to do overtime and shift work for normal rates of pay.
It looks like we are heading down the same path as the USA and our Asian partners.
Make it cost effective to live here like lowering insurance, car registration, utility bills, grocery costs, fuel for the car and lower house prices to name a few and then start talking about penalty rates.
At the moment, people need every extra dollar earned to survive.

[porkop]

I don't disagree with this. I spent 13yrs on a flat rate, didn't stop me from surviving and making headway in life, however, people tend to live within their means and MANY people rely on O/T and the penalty rates attached just to survive.
It's not just as simple as some highly paid pollie saying they are no longer relevant!

[exited]

If Abbott is stupid enough to push for killing off penalty rates it'll almost surely cost him the next election.

[enf]

If Abbott is stupid enough to push for killing off penalty rates it'll almost surely cost him the next election.

Couldn't agree more.

[viewer]

He's being cagey tho'....he is saying that is something the regulators will look into...slightly distancing himself, but backing the proposals they be investigated.

[Downunder35m]

Is he giving back his extra allowances for overtime??
Certainly he makes enough money to say: I do the right thing and join the workers...

[LeroyPatrol]

If Abbott is stupid enough to push for killing off penalty rates it'll almost surely cost him the next election.

Looks like shorton is right and the libs will be in for one term

Bugger me though. Your kids are home on the weekend when you want to be with your family. There has to be some kind of 'penalty' if you have to work and not be with them.

leroy

[fandtm666]

if they remove penalty rates no one would work weekends or night shift
and if you managed to get some one to work from 11pm to 7am on a
saturday - sunday night would you actually expect any work from them.

and if the libs really tried to remove penalty rates they would be committing
political suicide because even the most staunchest liberal voter would be pissed

[viewer]

It makes me wonder who is offering up the thought of going public with this sort of talk.
Surely his advisors don't want people offside with him so quickly?
He seemed to fight hard to distance himself from Workchoices, and now finds himself embroiled in that very mess again.

[marty 17]

To my recollection penalty rates are a penance placed on the employer for asking staff to work outside normal working hours
IE Monday to Friday 8 hours a day in daylight hours.

So abolish penalty rates and then workers would have evenings and weekends free to be with their familys,

Shops do not have to be open 24/7 as we use to be able to do our shopping in 5 and a half days

[Downunder35m]

I know it is of no help here, but in DE there are now more and more contracts that are based on a 38 hour week and include "floating overtime".
Sorry but there is nothing good for a proper translation...
It means your basic salary is based on the 39 hours and what you get per hour.
The overtime is being "collected" with no extra payment at all.
Depending on your contract the employer needs to act on your overtime once you collected a certain amount of hours - usually around the 40 hour mark.
At that point you should get every overtime paid at the full overtime rates (+25% after hours, +50% for night work or Saturdays, 100% for Sundays or public holidays).
Sadly the employer also has the right to order you to a leave based on your overtime - and you get no payment for those "free days".
The reality looks like this:
You collect overtime until you reached the limit, at this point you will no longer get an "offer" for overtime and someone else get the chance to collect overtime hours.
Once a whole section of the company has collected their overtime the employer will close the section for a week (if there is low workloads at some stage) and send everyone home to collect their overtime.

The unions and employers say it is fair and the best to boost the market.
Some workers (mostly with high wahes anyway) agree too, but those with entry level jobs depending on the overtime money to survive often loose wife, family and their home due to that.
So more and more unqualified workers prefer to stay unemployed as in the long run they get more money compared to working under these conditions.

I think some of the problems are based on the figures used to determine the income and living costs.
An average is used based on a qualified industrial worker with 3-5 years of job experience.
In reality there are far too many workers with much lower rates...
For example a normal sparky doing installations for residential houses and industrial installations is set to a minimum of 21.50€ - about 33$ AU
An entry level factory worked for pick packing or simple manual labour starts at just 11.30€ - about 17$ AU
You can easily see the difference for normal working hours not to mention the overtime rates...

[viewer]

I agree marty

We could have shops that are opened after normal hours, but you have to pay extra for the same things.

I would fully support a change back to those hours, as well as not opening on official holidays....stop the stupid work on boxing day,etc....let people have the day it was designated as...A HOLIDAY

It would be a tad harder for those doing shifts, but I never heard of anyone not getting around the problem years back.

[exited]

If penalty rates are abolished it is merely taking money off people who are already doing the weekend work and are relying on the penalty rates to pay their bills.

I find it totally unacceptable that a worker can earn $800 a week in one year - then $600 a week the next year because of the ideology of a Government. That's what happened under Workchoices and it should never be allowed to happen again IMO.

I don't agree with turning Saturday and Sunday into just another Monday.

[marty 17]

When shops were open 5 and a half days a week no one starved to death as wives were not working in them days and that allowed them to shop in normal hours .

Then they introduced late night shopping Thursdays .

Then they started opening on Sundays and in some places (Gold Coast etc) we had shops openng 24 hours a day and the reason why was because we had tourists coming to the country what crap as they could have shopped during the day like the locals did.

No one ever starved to death because the shops only opened 5 and a half days a week and most people only had enough money for the essentials and opening shops for extended trading hours was not going to generate any extra takings for the shop keepers as you can only spend your money once.

[exited]

Once upon a time my cost of living was such that 5 days a week was enough to pay bills, rego, rent or mortgage.

That was when housing was relatively cheap compared to the average annual income. When that ratio started getting distorted a higher income was needed to keep abreast of the increasing expenses. The penalty rates associated with working nightshift and weekends provided that extra security. For many people removing these rates will simply create mortgage stress and other nasties.

Take away penalties only when the cost of living can be restored to something more sensible. I think people work hard enough for their money without the need for further idealistic punishment

[lsemmens]

The biggest call for late night shopping have been from those who work 9-5, which, on the surface of it, is fair enough. The problem is the penalty rates imposed on those stores that choose to service the after hours custom. Why do they have to service late night customers? Because there are more and more families where both partners work and cannot shop during "office hours". If we wish to travel down the "equality" route where both members of a couple are forced to work, then we must pay the penalty. Time was when a woman was forced to resign when she married, then it became pregnancy, then came maternity leave, you see where this is going? I'm not advocating that all women should be forced out of the workforce but, what I would suggest, that household income should be allowed to be split for taxation purposes, provided that one partner remains at home to "tend house". This would have the advantage of a) reducing unemployment and b) allowing shopping to be done during "normal" hours. Penalty rates can then be reserved only for those who must needs work outside the usual window. We can get used to shopping 9-5. When we moved back to South Aust after living in the NT it was a culture shock as we were used to getting just about anything 24hours a day. Back then, servos in South OZ used to close at 6pm! In Riverton, where we now live, 9-5 Mon to Fri and 9-12 Sat are still the norm for our IGA and Servo, heck, our servo only takes cash, and we survive quite well!

[Godzilla]

Might be a work around of what the French did, reducing the working week hours at the same rate opened doors for employers to employ the unemployed to fill in the hours missing.

Im all for it, i was on staff for 25 years, i never worked a 38 hour week, more like a 58 hour week for the same 38H pay, i went home when my duties were fulfilled, i lived within my means.

May also help employ those without a job, not wanting to work back for a flat rate opens the doors for others wanting to work to fill in the gap.

Also part time casual rates need to go, why are we paying the premium for it? Drives up prices further......

[viewer]

I don't fully agree that it was simpler back then....
Yep, I am 60 and have been there/done that/in that period.
I rented, married, had 2 kids, and wanted to better myself
I took on my daily job, plus another 2 nights midweek, as well as working at the club 2 or 3 nights a week to save
I purchased a house in far western sydney, as that was all I could afford, not where I really wanted to be....
Wages were not high, interest rates were at 17%....I don't think young mortgagees understand that burden, when you see what rates are now.
My wife worked Thursday nights and Saturday's at Grace Bros
Bills food etc was much the same as now, always a struggle to keep the mouths fed, but we never starved

Simply put, you were rewarded by your own effort...and by god, penalty rates were earnt the hard way.

Mr Abbott.....Please leave the god damned worker alone for a while, and start concentrating on the other factors like you should be.

The sad truth is that a lot of people voted Liberal, as they were more or less voting OUT Labour. I'm certain the majority of these weren't in favour of the media bashing worker campaign that his party is now running, looking like it is returning to a workchoices battle again.

[viewer]

The biggest call for late night shopping have been from those who work 9-5, which, on the surface of it, is fair enough. The problem is the penalty rates imposed on those stores that choose to service the after hours custom. Why do they have to service late night customers? Because there are more and more families where both partners work and cannot shop during "office hours". If we wish to travel down the "equality" route where both members of a couple are forced to work, then we must pay the penalty. Time was when a woman was forced to resign when she married, then it became pregnancy, then came maternity leave, you see where this is going? I'm not advocating that all women should be forced out of the workforce but, what I would suggest, that household income should be allowed to be split for taxation purposes, provided that one partner remains at home to "tend house". This would have the advantage of a) reducing unemployment and b) allowing shopping to be done during "normal" hours. Penalty rates can then be reserved only for those who must needs work outside the usual window. We can get used to shopping 9-5. When we moved back to South Aust after living in the NT it was a culture shock as we were used to getting just about anything 24hours a day. Back then, servos in South OZ used to close at 6pm! In Riverton, where we now live, 9-5 Mon to Fri and 9-12 Sat are still the norm for our IGA and Servo, heck, our servo only takes cash, and we survive quite well!

Nice mate, sums up my thoughts entirely...

[exited]

Here's another idea. Let's tax every worker in the country an extra $100 a week. Not only would you pay off Labor's debt in record time but you would generate enough revenue to sponsor every business to be open every day and leave the penalty rate system as it is. $100 a week tax might sound pretty steep but it's a hell of a lot better than loosing $200 a week in lost shift allowances