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Thread: Home ownership - the new class divide

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by oceanboy View Post
    1992?? First Home Owners Grant?
    Yep. Definately.

    Which is why I didnt get it on my current house which we built 10 years ago.

    It was a Vic state grant which it , my missus worked in Real Estate at the time so I dont know how well known it was.



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    Quote Originally Posted by oceanboy View Post
    ...Plenty of people that had it better than me, especially my friends that have retired at 57!..
    I am very happy for them (and you).

    Quote Originally Posted by oceanboy View Post
    ..Obviously i was born at the wrong time wasn't i TVguy...
    Perhaps not?

    Quote Originally Posted by oceanboy View Post
    ...Do i whinge about that?...
    Not from what I have observed.

    Quote Originally Posted by oceanboy View Post
    ...what more do these sooks want?...
    Maybe a pat on the head to tell them that it was all just a bad dream?
    "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

    - Arthur C. Clarke

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    Oceanboy, you forgot the over seas trips!
    There is a fine line between "Hobby" and "Madness"

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    The first Home I purchased in 1985 came with a first home owner's grant. IIRC my repayments were approx 25% of the average weekly age. Now, according to Channel Nine it's
    If you get the average weekly earnings of $1071.70 a week ($55,728 a year), your mortgage repayments will make up 54.39 percent of your gross salary
    I'm out of my mind, but feel free to leave a message...

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    Another reason the Housing market in Sydney and Melbourne has become so highly Priced is the current very low interest rates ....

    Very low interest Rates means the borrower can borrow a lot more money than they used to ..... leading to much higher purchase prices

    Recently I heard on the TV nightly news that a property in Sydney sold for something like $600,000 above the reserve of about $1,000,000 .....

    These steep rises in Property values in Sydney (or Melbourne) is also what makes Investors interested in Property Investment in Sydney or Melbourne


    Maybe this is just the free market working things out ..... ? Investors and Live in Home owners will just buy what they can if they can ..... ?


    It does worry me a little when protections are put in place (like if the government guarantee's Banks cannot fail if things go wrong .... ?) which is a good thing in one way ..... but encourages recklessness in lending and purchases

    The Sub Prime failures in America was foreseen by some American banks and their response was to buy insurance (from American IAG) to cover the eventuality ..... encouraging further recklessness and a bigger problem in the end (IAG also nearly failed)
    Last edited by OSIRUS; 24-04-17 at 09:23 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by admin View Post
    Melbourne and Sydney are 2 ridiculously sized behemoths of 4 million plus each people and still growing. Of course out of the 8 million people, half are refugees, immigrants and chinese students or investors.

    Its a mess.
    Very interesting point.

    Today I read this interesting view about that growth:


    If this is true:
    Most of our economic growth forecasts have been based on population growth of around 400,000 a year; almost a new city.
    of which half comes from immigrants, then the latest attempts to curb immigration would not only bring down our economy but also house prices (which itself will drop GDP figures), a double whammy for the recession.
    This is also very true when I observe carefully the past and present:
    Immigrants are amazingly adept at starting their own businesses, thereby creating employment.
    As I said further back, it is probably 3 years too late to limit the taxpayer funded presents for the property investors to cool things down gradually.
    Banks are being a bit proactive by raising lending rates, at least those who are telling them to.
    Last edited by nomeat; 24-04-17 at 12:51 PM.
    Welcome to Australia where corruption is legalised.
    Protecting the rich and high real estate prices kills our economy.


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    Quote Originally Posted by OSIRUS View Post
    It does worry me a little when protections are put in place (like if the government guarantee's Banks cannot fail if things go wrong .... ?) which is a good thing in one way ..... but encourages recklessness in lending and purchases

    The Sub Prime failures in America was foreseen by some American banks and their response was to buy insurance (from American IAG) to cover the eventuality ..... encouraging further recklessness and a bigger problem in the end (IAG also nearly failed)
    With well over a trillion in household debt, largely due to the over inflated property prices, it would be interesting to see how our government can guarantee that.Bail-in (stealing the money from depositors) is in place but would do nothing, who keeps large money on the local bank?

    We are fly shit compared to the USA and the worldwide support of their dollar and government securities. Too much is at stake if banks fail in the USA, but nobody except some of us gives a damn about the welfare of banks here.
    Welcome to Australia where corruption is legalised.
    Protecting the rich and high real estate prices kills our economy.


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    Quote Originally Posted by nomeat View Post
    If this is true:
    of which half comes from immigrants, then the latest attempts to curb immigration would not only bring down our economy but also house prices (which itself will drop GDP figures), a double whammy for the recession.
    Which means the world has a far bigger problem, no contingency plan whatsoever for a world without growth. The only masterplan governments seem to have is to keep doubling the population every X years.

    I am glad I will be dead in 25 years, I hate to see it.

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    Yep, the world is already over populated......
    Australia's​ infrastructure is pretty near maxed out now, we don't need any more population growth....

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    Quote Originally Posted by hoe View Post
    Yep, the world is already over populated......
    Australia's​ infrastructure is pretty near maxed out now, we don't need any more population growth....
    Its a major problem. While we are a huge country in size, realistically only a small part is arable land.

    I know its not possible, but it would be great to see a town used as a test case in zero growth. No new people allowed, only by birth to ensure almost zero population growth. Town must become self sufficient in energy, and anything it can't produce itself, it must get by exporting what it can over produce etc. In effect, going back 2000 years when a village traded with a neighbouring village.

    So far the only person who is even asking these questions is Dick Smith, which shows just how smart this bloke is. I just wish he could get some more big names on board to push it.

    It would be great to have a population cap and know thats where it is going to stop. But no doubt, it won't even be on the political spectrum until we are down to our last square metre of land being fought over by 50 immigrants.

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    Quote Originally Posted by admin View Post
    Its a major problem. While we are a huge country in size, realistically only a small part is arable land.
    Yeah, you guys also have a water problem, like we do, I think.

    Same thing here, large tracts of land that are pretty much uninhabited - too dry to farm or do anything really. You can't establish a town there either really, unless there is substantial mining activity for example, of which we have a few towns like that.

    Our city is a classic case of overpopulation on local scale. We often experienced droughts in the past, El Niņo, all that kind of stuff, but the limited water that was there (in storage dams, etc.) was always enough. In the last 10 years, our area has seen an enormous boom in population, mostly moving from the eastern half of the country to the west. People try to advise that our area is one of limited resources, but the people just don't listen, they just keep coming. There are no jobs, there is no space, no infrastructure, etc. to cope with all of this, but the people keep coming in droves. I estimate that the area has easily tripled in population size. We have been experiencing low rainfall since 2015 and our dam levels are on average around 20% full. This time next year the water will probably be shut down permanently and taps will just be ornaments.

    I have to agree, there are just too many people, and that is the core problem with most problems, the elephant in the corner, and nobody wants to point it out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by admin View Post
    Its a major problem. While we are a huge country in size, realistically only a small part is arable land.

    I know its not possible, but it would be great to see a town used as a test case in zero growth. No new people allowed, only by birth to ensure almost zero population growth. Town must become self sufficient in energy, and anything it can't produce itself, it must get by exporting what it can over produce etc. In effect, going back 2000 years when a village traded with a neighbouring village.
    That has always been my lifestyle wish. Total self sustainability as an individual or community.Back then I think they were called hippies who started the idea and the drug scene destroyed a lot of this mentality and ruined some attempts of the thinking and working people while most others were just lazy and leeched and discussed everything to death. That is how it ususally ends.

    It would be very hard to find a group of like minded people to really work together in such a village and organise themselves and this could never become the norm.
    Humans are just not like that.
    I have followed and personally experienced such experiments in Europe.
    In my case it was just an old ware house near a train station in Germany were we 'like minded' (young kids in the 20's) wanted to start the dream of a self sustainable small community.

    It didn't take long until I split it in two sections, one for me alone, while the others were just fighting with each other in the other half. I couldn't stand all their discussion rubbish.
    They didn't even bother what I aways doing in my half because it was the storage area and had no rooms until I built three big ones, created a practice room for my band, a wood workshop and an electronics workshop, a bar with some pokies and pinball machines (that I recycled) and the people suddenly came and listend to the band and payed the equivalent of $50 for Aldi champagne I bought for $10(1980's). The machines were full of money too.
    In the day I got plenty of little paid jobs to do in my workshops, although some of the speaker cabinets I built were damn big.
    Suddenly my dream came true for a while but only because I did it myself.

    So I finally learned the lesson that this communal thinking will never work and most people will always stay the same:
    They need somebody to control them and give them a job so they can spend their money on useless stuff.

    While nobody can really know how it was 2000 years ago, I don't think it was harmonious either. There was always greed and the strive to have more
    than others. The successful ones then ended up as the leaders, while the others were slaved for pennies, or somebody just didn't like your nose or something and you got knocked off.

    I still wish I could find a way to live almost without money and I am working on it but only as an individual.
    Last edited by nomeat; 24-04-17 at 07:36 PM.
    Welcome to Australia where corruption is legalised.
    Protecting the rich and high real estate prices kills our economy.


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    its quite scary when you learn that China , having a one child policy ( for most couples ) is now fearful of negative population growth so is now relaxing that policy somewhat. Its not just where you put those people its how you manage the growth. I saw whole villages that were lying empty , the locals couldnt afford to buy there.
    chinese growth also has its downsides - many of the chinese having lived a simple life under communism are now wanting to live just like the west , with first world problems - instead of riding a bicycle ( or an E Bike ) they aspire to BMWs. and when the BMWs break down there are few mechanics to fix them , so they become roadside ornaments.

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    Don't worry. Don't worry about things you can't change

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    The Chinese 1 person policy did not work. Given the majority of the population was rural, there was a preponderance of male children born with girls being killed, either at birth, or by abortion, because a girl was not as "valuable" as a male. The problem did not manifest itself until these young boys grew up and wanted to marry. Yes there should have been some population control, but it is almost impossible to police. Im some of China's remote areas, life did continue as"normal" and the only "punishment" was often just the parents would pay a "fine" and keep the baby. Son was dating a Chinese national for a while and she had siblings still back in China.
    I'm out of my mind, but feel free to leave a message...

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    Just to give us an idea when it all turns to dust...


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    Quote Originally Posted by PZ. View Post
    Just to give us an idea when it all turns to dust...
    Due to population increases flowing into the eastern capital cities and surrounding areas I doubt they will suffer the same fate that ppl in Mandurah are facing due to low wages/under-employment/retrenchment/unemployment

    After over three years of decline with ppl leaving Mandurah due to financial hardship, rents are finally (but slowly) going down, but ppl still cant afford them and I see a steady stream of ppl on a daily basis pushing shopping trolleys stacked with their belongings heading for the train station or looking for the next derelict house to occupy (very easily found in Mandurah now)

    There have been sooooooo many new units built/partially finished the last few years I wonder how the hell they will ever be occupied, the number of empty houses/units with for sale/lease/rent has to be seen to be believed, some standing empty for years

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    Quote Originally Posted by alpha0ne View Post
    Due to population increases flowing into the eastern capital cities and surrounding areas I doubt they will suffer the same fate that ppl in Mandurah are facing due to low wages/under-employment/retrenchment/unemployment

    After over three years of decline with ppl leaving Mandurah due to financial hardship, rents are finally (but slowly) going down, but ppl still cant afford them and I see a steady stream of ppl on a daily basis pushing shopping trolleys stacked with their belongings heading for the train station or looking for the next derelict house to occupy (very easily found in Mandurah now)

    There have been sooooooo many new units built/partially finished the last few years I wonder how the hell they will ever be occupied, the number of empty houses/units with for sale/lease/rent has to be seen to be believed, some standing empty for years
    That's really sad...I loved the place. Before I moved east in the early 70's, Mandurah and Rockingham were where we used to hang out when not surfing. I have a cousin there in real estate...I'll give her a toot and see what she says. Does the estuary still have all those blue swimmers we used to live on?

    To me it seems like a common problem in many areas and industries in the country. What good are reduced prices on ANYTHING when you have no money anyway and everyone has been automated out of a job and therefore wages....
    The fact that there's a highway to hell and a stairway to heaven says a lot about the anticipated traffic flow.

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