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Thread: Home ownership - the new class divide

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    Default Home ownership - the new class divide

    Have to hand it to "The Human Headline" and now Justice Party senator Derryn Hinch, for declaring that:
    Good on you Derryn; recipient of a new liver due to your drunken excess and now tax payer funded for life.
    A life as a highly paid media identity (lunching so often it destroyed your liver) hardly qualifies one to berate the young who merely aspire to that which their parents have.
    I'm sick to death of the oldies (my peers mostly) who moan about 18% interest back in the bad old days! "Tell 'em they're dreaming!" I lived through that too and it was not hard at all.
    I'm unfortunate enough to live in Sydney and as soon as my daughters finish school, I'm out of here.
    To have a seventeen year old girl lament to me that she can never afford to live in the humble place she was born is appalling.
    The social divide is only worsening, and quite frankly, nothing about capital city living is appealing (particularly Sydney).
    Every new immigrant comes to live in a new or existing ghetto, and they all claim to be fully qualified tradesmen at the age of twenty.
    Fortunately, I have been able to hold the wolves at bay from my mother's door, who regularly approach an eighty-five year old woman seeking first offer on her home once she departs this earth.
    What has it come to? Property developers stealing our children's right to a home of their own.
    Here endeth the rant (it has to be a Sydney thing).

    Quote:"Earlier this week the Australian Bureau of Statistics revealed the typical Australian was a 38-year-old woman living with her husband and two children in a three-bedroom house with a mortgage.
    But the typical politician, according to Buzzfeed, was a married 51-year-old father of two, who owned two homes and was called Andrew.
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    I have to agree with Hinch's statement, home ownership isn't a right. Its something that you have to work hard towards.

    Having said that, thats about the only thing we differ on

    Although I dont live in metro Sydney or Melbourne, I do live in Victoria and real estate prices in my area are also starting to sky rocket. Luckily my daughter bought a house a couple of years ago, but I doubt my son has a chance. Melbourne's prices are the result of the Chinese, who will pay idiotic prices.

    Here is a classic example.... a 2 bedroom house for 7 million dollars. Why ? Chinese will pay almost any price to get in to the Box Hill area which is now almost completely Asian.....a mate was there last week and said he did not see any other race of people.




    BTW, my name is Andrew, I am nearly 50 and I own half a house

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    Quote Originally Posted by admin View Post
    BTW, my name is Andrew, I am nearly 50 and I own half a house
    Two thirds more than I do Andrew and I'm 54.
    My biggest gripe is that it is not even within the realm of any young person in Sydney to even rent in the most modest accommodation.
    I reside in the habitual home of crime known as "South-Western Sydney"; yet the POS new duplex across the road costs $620 / week to rent!! WTF is that ???
    I couldn't even afford to rent with three daughters, close to $2k to keep a vehicle on the horribly choked roads.
    It strikes me that one needs to be of a certain heritage in order to drive an Audi or BMW, have six PITA wayward children, and drive a tipper in order to afford this Government subsidised lifestyle.
    Make no mistake, I've worked non-stop for 36 years (two jobs mostly) just to make ends meet.
    I don't expect to be given anything, but do object to those who tell me I'm not lifting my weight or that my children have to save for forty years to feel that they have some stability.
    Housing is an essential in life. Just look up Maslow's hierarchy of needs.
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    This over pricing happened in my small community 20 years ago, we had $1 Million properties back then.
    And guess what, people got over it.
    They moved to an area they could afford.
    No one sooked and moaned they couldn't afford to live here, they just worked out they couldn't and moved where they could.

    A win for surrounding communities
    At no cost to the community they moved out of.
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    The other option is to move away from Sydney or Melbourne,

    I really don't know how anyone can afford the prices they are asking ....

    (30 years ago I could have bought a two bedroom apartment in Lane Cove in Sydney for about $180,000, And in 1970 you could have bought a house with city water views in Greenwich for about $30,000)

    I hear that a lot of the housing loans in Sydney now are Interest only loans for investment purposes ..... & that takes them out of the reach of the average person who wants a home to live in


    Ok the point I am getting to is that you can buy a good home in Tamworth NSW for about $240,000 ..... this is what my Aunty's estate home sold for just recently & it had all the maintenance done with ducted air conditioning/heating, Twin car port, freshly painted though out etc .... built in the 1960's .... some Sydney homes bringing over $1,000,000 were built in the 1920's or 1930's etc ...

    Just something else to think about ....
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    Quote Originally Posted by oceanboy View Post
    ..They moved to an area they could afford. No one sooked and moaned they couldn't afford to live here, they just worked out they couldn't and moved where they could.
    Perhaps if there were employment opportunities we would all abandon the drudgery of conurbation.
    In a similar way, families as a general precept, prefer to be in proximity to care for the young and infirmed.
    I could not care less for what any individual's property is valued; that is function of a market to decide. One million, ten million, who cares?
    My concern is that contact with family is diminished by an inability for one's offspring to participate in a community of their peers and relatives.
    As a parent, I feel for my children's future. I've advised them to leave this country, enjoy their youth, and find affordable housing with job opportunities (anywhere but Australia).
    May I add, that I would follow them and proffer full support.
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    Whilst I agree with Hinch on this one technical point, his sanctimony is palpable. I wonder how much of my tax money kept the pampered old drunk alive....and I have nothing but contempt for the stupidity of those that voted for him. As it's no longer a right for OUR young, to me it seems that by default he is saying that you should just rent from the Chinese and shut up. If these Chinese are NOT Australian citizens, or have no intention of becoming same, then as far as I am concerned they can f*ck off.

    Moving is difficult if there are no jobs....and in most cases there ARE no jobs.
    The fact that there's a highway to hell and a stairway to heaven says a lot about the anticipated traffic flow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TVguy View Post
    I could not care less for what any individual's property is valued; that is function of a market to decide. One million, ten million, who cares?
    My concern is that contact with family is diminished by an inability for one's offspring to participate in a community of their peers and relatives.
    Is that a right we should have or an entitlement?
    Exact same thing happened here for the passed 30 years.
    We manage, you think outside the square, you subdivide if possible or build them a flat.

    Fact is, this didn't just sneak up on us.
    The next generation in my family all had to buy in another town and commute here for work (if they chose to).
    Yet, they could have chosen to purchase here, had they not been holidaying, partying, having a "Gap year" or what ever activity they were doing other than planning for the future. Then all of sudden wondering why they couldn't afford to buy at the 11th hour.

    I'd say 97% of the kids that grew up here, cant afford to buy here, and its been that way for 20 years+
    It is also out of reach of most wealthy people too, as is parts of Sydney, Melbourne, South Coast NSW, North Coast NSW.
    In fact, nearly all of our base workers (Motel Staff, Chefs, Cleaners,etc) all come from surrounding towns.

    People need to look at the next step forward instead of looking at the what they can't have.

    What i've seen, is the growth of these other surrounding towns, shops opening up in them, schools, developments and subsequently those property prices going up.
    You don't hear the new home owners cry when it happens to them do you, yet they are all part of the problem.

    So as a family, we now have to drive 40min or 1.5hr or 7hrs to see each other, instead of 3min..... Big deal.
    Most kids move interstate anyway, so what is your point?
    Last edited by ol' boy; 16-04-17 at 07:29 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by enf View Post

    Moving is difficult if there are no jobs....and in most cases there ARE no jobs.
    BS, our daughter moved to Griffith NSW
    1. Its affordable
    2. There were jobs everywhere, so much so, that her partner found an engineering job in 3 days!
    3. What was a move for affordability has now turned out to be a wonderful thing, they are members of a community, involved in community sporting events. Made loads of new friends and as such, our life is richer for visiting them and being introduced to the same.
    4. They are making more money where they are now than in Melbourne, they can park for FREE everywhere, the commute to work takes 3 minutes.
    They save a fortune not living in Melbourne with all the associated costs (Parking, Taxis, Toll Roads, Public Transport, etc)

    People forget the strength of smaller communities, the community will find you work through word of mouth, not seek.com

    Those that wish to live in Melb or Sydney, and want to whinge about it, good luck to you, probably the kind of people that need to stay in city anyway.
    There are so many regional centres benefiting from the bonkers prices in parts of Sydney, Melb, and alike....
    Ive seen many regional towns where kids first wanted to move away, to the big city, now happy to stay and work in the town they grew up in.
    Plenty of positives.

    What is a far greater concern, is Non Australian investors buying our properties!
    Last edited by ol' boy; 16-04-17 at 06:44 AM.
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    Sydney has been sliding into a large overpriced ghetto in the last 20 years , so many times ive seen ridiculous prices and thought it was unsustainable but it keeps going. The bubble has to burst sometime and then people are going to lose big , very big. I dont remember exactly when it was , but my theory is that the First Home Owner's Grant came in and then real estate agents put up prices by the amount of the Grant , then immigration fuelled the bonfire. Then the banks just encouraged uncontrolled lending and more fuel was added.

    We got out of there a couple of years ago ,moving to regional QLD. Sure there is less money to live on but at least i dont have to see hoardes of Muslims , power points and curry munchers each time we go out. My old house is rented out to my daughter so she even funds my new life because there is no way she will ever afford to buy !!

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    Its like people expected prices to stand still, so their kids could buy in at the same price they did 20 years prior.
    Well, not quite, i do appreciate it is a case of affordability.

    So go where you can afford, simple.

    Whole thing is a doubled edged sword to me.
    I remember 25 years ago, houses were $50K and $60K in Devonport, TAS. In fact, i think some were $35K.
    We all laughed at our cheap they were, saying we should buy there for Investment Rentals, but not many did, because no one could see our money (house) going up in value in such a place.
    Well, look now!

    Being able to buy were you grew up, or went to school, is not a Right.
    It is a very old school way of thinking.
    Sure, great if you can, but it hasn't been that way for 30 years + in most popular areas.
    Last edited by ol' boy; 16-04-17 at 10:50 AM.
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    This 'owning your own home' wasnt that high on the as I was growing up until around 1950 or so when Sydney was beginning to burst at the seams and to get people to go to more than 20 kilometres from the Sydney CBD, they offered the houses for sale.
    The other major problem with 'Home Ownership' as I remember it was getting FINANCE as there were no Credit Unions or Finance companies solely lending for housing.
    Once the 'Dollar Down and a Dollar a week' form of Finance was introduced, people began to buy.
    I stand unequivicably behind everything I say , I just dont ever remember saying it !!

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    It is totally irrelevant to post about individual success stories here and there in rural towns.

    ...and yet to get things first straight: I have two homes (owned outright, never used negative gearing) in semi rural areas, one rented out.
    I find no proper work in my field. Therefore cash poor/asset rich and I am personally absolutely not moaning at all.
    I know how to survive on pennies even with family due to my DIY mentality.

    But moving to 'the bush' is not the solution for millions of younger people who will not find work out there(although state politicians could do something about that) and did not have the luck like my generation to be able to purchase properties that had a reasonable purchase price in relationship to their wages.

    This relationship is way too far out of proportion, driven by speculators motivated by tax breaks. The current hypocritical government supports this because it looks
    good in the GDP figures and yes the rich rule!

    Much needed new housing supply would only really happen once neg gearing is limited to new building only. As long as it can be used over and over
    again on old properties, the price of these properties will continue grow and grow in fictive wealth.

    It can only in part have to do with Chinese buyers, who are actually only supposed to purchase new real estate. I assume that is not always enforced.
    Any changes to the tax rules should have been done years ago(when I set my sig below) because it is now TOO LATE.
    Today almost every economist is calling the real estate bubble and the RBA is extremely concerned(household debt), yet every week there are still
    crazy people in Sydney bidding higher and higher and now even rental bidding which should be declared illegal.

    This make no sense and it is extremely risky and these stupid people should burn their fingers bad but a bursting bubble will now effect EVERYBODY.
    We will be immediately in a major recession and that only because our government and banks allowed uncontrolled speculation on a basic human requirement:
    A roof over or heads.

    No, housing is not an entitlement it is a requirement and rich speculators should not be given the right to make it unaffordable for those
    who actually work hard to earn their house.
    Last edited by Uncle Fester; 16-04-17 at 09:26 PM.
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    Unfortunately the Sydney & Melbourne housing markets have become the "get rich quick" investments for professional investors

    Investors are betting they can make better gains than in the stock market or Bank interest or other ways in the present economic climate .....

    as well they get supported by the government negative gearing & other tax incentives ...... & bank incentives like interest only loans

    & like a stock market share (or a "Pyramid scheme") the prices get pushed higher and higher by more people wanting to get in on it ....

    But the Government knows people will get their fingers burned if the government does anything about it ..... so they do nothing much about it
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    Quote Originally Posted by OSIRUS View Post
    as well they get supported by the government negative gearing
    What is never said, in relation to negative gearing, is that when the property is sold Capital Gains Tax has to be paid.

    It is not all cake, strawberries and cream for the investor.
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    Yes, there would be a far better arrangement if there were incentives for owner/occupiers and those who are investing have to pay full tote odds with little taxation assistance. It might make housing affordable again, but, I suspect, that horse has well and truly bolted.
    I'm out of my mind, but feel free to leave a message...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guiseppe View Post
    What is never said, in relation to negative gearing, is that when the property is sold Capital Gains Tax has to be paid.

    It is not all cake, strawberries and cream for the investor.
    Exactly...

    Ans also what is not often mentioned are the figures from Census and Stats that state that the overwhelming majority of people who negative gear (87% I think) are in fact middle income earners trying to get ahead.....not the wealthy. But Bill the Backpedaller will always say it's the rich because it's the populist belief and will probably get him elected so he can take a turn in the big trough. That's all politicians care about.
    The fact that there's a highway to hell and a stairway to heaven says a lot about the anticipated traffic flow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guiseppe View Post
    What is never said, in relation to negative gearing, is that when the property is sold Capital Gains Tax has to be paid.

    It is not all cake, strawberries and cream for the investor.

    Only 50% CGT needs to be accounted for. That is plenty of cream for the investors.

    Treating properties (that peoples lives heavily depend on) like shares is not only immoral but harms our economy.
    Buying actual shares from companies may help grow the economy but trading with old houses does the opposite as more and more money becomes locked up to pay for these hideous prices for the family home.
    We have now over a Trillion household debt. A lot of that money could otherwise be used to purchase goods and services to drive our economy.

    And don't think investers put all their gained wealth back into our economy once they have aquired enough old realestate.
    I doesn't matter if the speculators are from overseas or here, they all know what to do with their gained wealth and buying actual shares here to support our economy is hardly one of them. That is only for the little mum and dad investors.
    The money goes like Turnbull in the Caymans or similar, an offshore trading company is created there that does not require to pay tax, totally legit and you can share the same business address(very cheap) with many other likeminded.
    They don't mess around with shares but the more popular CFDs and many other leveraged derivaties where you can trade Shorts towards a falling economy.

    They are all laughing at the bit of CGT they had to pay here.
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    It doesn't matter who's doing the negative gearing. It still plays a role in the housing shortage and price blowouts. Capital Gains Tax actually makes it worse, because it's a disincentive to sell.

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    Quote Originally Posted by enf View Post
    figures from Census and Stats that state that the overwhelming majority of people who negative gear (87% I think) are in fact middle income earners trying to get ahead.....not the wealthy.

    ...does the census show how much each individual is holding?

    You forget the 1% holding 99% syndrom.
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