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    Default PowerWalls

    Looks like these products have hit our shores for 2016
    Not only that, you can get a $750 Cash Rebate for installing one.

    I see the Solar Companies are now offering them in their package deals too (you want fries with that?)

    Might be something for admin and other with solar to look into.
    If you are generating excess, there is no need to be giving it away for next to nothing.

    Nearly every Australia Energy Retailer is flogging them too.

    If u want to go on an expedition get a Land Rover, if u want to come home from an expedition get a Landcruiser!

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    I love the idea but some of the power providers have suggested they'll not allow such devices with grid connected systems. . Last ditch effort to hold on to revenue?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drift View Post
    I love the idea but some of the power providers have suggested they'll not allow such devices with grid connected systems. . Last ditch effort to hold on to revenue?



    Seems ok with Origin (then again, who would still be with Origin)
    CAN I GET A BATTERY TO GO WITH MY EXISTING SOLAR SYSTEM?
    We are currently trialing batteries which may be added to many existing solar system installations. When we release a battery to the market, it is expected that an assessment would need to be made of each solar system installation to determine compatibility. Register your interest and we’ll be able to make an assessment when we release our product to market.
    Last edited by ol' boy; 05-01-16 at 06:41 PM.
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    Pity we only get Western Power/Synergy/Horizon in WA. What ever they chose to call the different departments etc.

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    I wonder what is stopping you from installing one anyway?
    After all, its all on the DC side, before the Inverter.
    How would they even know you installed one or 5 for that matter?
    If u want to go on an expedition get a Land Rover, if u want to come home from an expedition get a Landcruiser!

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    Any idea on the cost to have one installed?

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    Quote Originally Posted by oceanboy View Post
    I wonder what is stopping you from installing one anyway?
    After all, its all on the DC side, before the Inverter.
    How would they even know you installed one or 5 for that matter?
    Good point. I've considered all kinds of disparate systems for going partially off grid. This just makes things tidy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tony54 View Post
    Any idea on the cost to have one installed?
    You might find some help here tony



    Personally i have no idea what Installation cost, but the Installation itself would not be very hard.
    Im sure its the product itself that is the biggest cost component.

    EDIT: They can be purchased for $3000 USD in the US.
    Looks like all the companies here are trying to work out how to profit from them.

    With all this Solar and now Powerwalls, i can see Power Retailers basic service fees going up.

    Lots of figures to take into account if you are interested in buying one
    Efficiency
    Product Life (cycles)
    Degradation % over Product Life
    Cost
    Your current off solar energy costs etc etc
    Last edited by ol' boy; 05-01-16 at 07:53 PM.
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    loks like the qld energex does not like them or backup batteries.

    was reading in the paper that if people install a backup battery setup they
    will loose the byback rebate if the qld power companies get their way

    dont say linux if i wanted it id install it

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    Quote Originally Posted by oceanboy View Post
    I wonder what is stopping you from installing one anyway?
    After all, its all on the DC side, before the Inverter.
    How would they even know you installed one or 5 for that matter?
    The current systems arent designed to use the power received from the panels (in daylight) and let you have power when the Mains go off.

    You would need an isolation switch so that when the mains goes off, the power only goes into your Home and not out to the Mains.
    One because it would be dangerous if they were working on the mains and Two, you wouldnt have enough power to light up the whole street circuit.
    I have seen such switches used where two power supplies were available, one supply for Normal, the other for emergency and it worked by a electro magnet on the 'Normal' supply so when it went out, the switch relaxed and connected the emergency supply to the location.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gordon_s1942 View Post
    The current systems arent designed to use the power received from the panels (in daylight) and let you have power when the Mains go off.

    You would need an isolation switch so that when the mains goes off, the power only goes into your Home and not out to the Mains.
    One because it would be dangerous if they were working on the mains and Two, you wouldnt have enough power to light up the whole street circuit.
    I have seen such switches used where two power supplies were available, one supply for Normal, the other for emergency and it worked by a electro magnet on the 'Normal' supply so when it went out, the switch relaxed and connected the emergency supply to the location.
    Not sure what you are on about here gordon, but its doesn't have much to do with adding a Powerwall to an existing Solar System
    At what point do the Mains Go off? you have lost me there. Are you saying the Tesla System is made to give you power when the Mains go off?
    I am unsure how this is even possible, as its all pre the Inverter.
    Maybe you can explain it to us.

    We are talking about these


    There is a nice little video to explain.
    Last edited by ol' boy; 05-01-16 at 10:04 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by diavalo13666 View Post
    loks like the qld energex does not like them or backup batteries.

    was reading in the paper that if people install a backup battery setup they
    will loose the byback rebate if the qld power companies get their way

    Couldn't open that link, but its funny, not all Queensland Retailers are against it.

    AGL Energy and other retailers see energy storage as a key means to retain customers for longer than they currently do, and to keep “skin” and hardware in the game as the energy sector moves to a decentralised model, where half or more of electricity demand will eventually be generated – and potentially stored – on rooftops of homes and businesses and within local communities.


    Of course, they fail to mention if it will effect your Solar Buy Back
    Which come the end of 2016 in NSW all goes away anyway.
    Last edited by ol' boy; 05-01-16 at 09:51 PM.
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    The powerwall is a complete waste, useless for homes and will cost you well over $10000 to install and won't provide you with the energy you need for off grid. They are not lifepo4, produce voltages over 400v, which means you need special inverters and chargers to use them in the home.

    If you want to save more money and have a grid connect system, get yourself a pack of lifpeo4 cells, configure them into 12v nominal, a good cheap 3kw-6kw 12v inverter, a 240v battery charger, a voltage monitoring system, which you can make up yourself for less than $30 and you have all you need. Charge your pack during the day from your panels and use it over night. You can get an electrician install a generator connection so you can switch from grid to a genny and plug that into you inverter. Lots of rural people have these connections when the grid goes down and some have then in cities that have solar. One of my daughters who lives in Q, I supplied the stuff, they already had a back up genny and now have no power bills with their gird connect system. Know someone in Tas who did that and Aurora got really pissed off and threatened them with court action, but there was nothing they could do legally, other then to disconnect them.

    You only need 500-1000ah and that will do you for a few days, the total cost will come in at less than $5000 and last you the next 20 years of you set it up right. No one will know the difference, except your power bill will drop dramatically and yo can stash the lifepo4 pack under a cupboard or anywhere you like.

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    Quote Originally Posted by spook View Post
    they already had a back up genny and now have no power bills with their gird connect system.
    How do they manage that?
    Have they convinced the Retailer to drop all service fees?


    Agreed the Tesla Powerwall is not the greatest product available, but its seems to be the product that is getting the word out.
    And i can see people referring to what ever product they get as a "Powerwall", it will no doubt become a generic name for Battery Stroage.

    Sure there are many huddles to cross, like "Battery Capable Hybrid Inverters"
    And many system variables, like do you want "Blackout Protection"?
    or do you want to be able to "Charge from the Grid in Off Peak Times"?

    Most people will just be happy to further reduce their power bill
    So being some what under sized, may provide that.

    To be almost self sufficient but tied to grid for back-up, that will of course need deeper pockets.

    As you say spook, nothing stopping people making up their own system, like the below


    Telsa Powerwall sales in the US have been stronger then expected, so it is anyones guess when AU orders will be filled.
    It has no doubt pushed out any expected AU delivery dates.
    In that time, i'm sure there will be dozens of AU companies jumping the gun and advertising their own off the shelf or custom solutions.
    (If the Solar Rouges are anything to go by)

    The irony for me, is now we are back to a system i was installing 25 years ago for Remote Supplies, only these are Grid Tied (with much better Tech).
    Back then, if the Batteries were topped up, we would shunt any extra solar power into the Hot Water Service.
    Last edited by ol' boy; 06-01-16 at 07:22 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by oceanboy View Post
    How do they manage that?
    Have they convinced the Retailer to drop all service fees?


    Telsa Powerwall sales in the US have been stronger then expected, so it is anyones guess when AU orders will be filled.
    It has no doubt pushed out any expected AU delivery dates.
    In that time, i'm sure there will be dozens of AU companies jumping the gun and advertising their own off the shelf or custom solutions.
    (If the Solar Rouges are anything to go by)

    The irony for me, is now we are back to a system i was installing 25 years ago for Remote Supplies, only these are Grid Tied (with much better Tech).
    Back then, if the Batteries were topped up, we would shunt any extra solar power into the Hot Water Service.
    The money they get from supplying the gird pays for their service charges as well and they get a cheque every now and then. Not sure how long it will last before the supplier gets the shit and checks them out, but it won't matter. They are about to increase the lifepo4 capacity to 3000ah and 8kw panels to 15kw, which will run their entire vet business and horse farm. A lot good proportion of that money came for their panels.

    Like i do ands what is recommended to others installing off grid, is to shunt any extra energy the panels produce to heats their hot water, this is great for people who are mobile installations. But most off grid systems also have solar hot water anyway.

    I know of a few companies the built and install their own lifepo4 systems and one has been doing it for at least 6 years, they got me started on it. I sell people all the components, how to set them up or the name of an installer I know and leave them to it. Saves them a fortune, rather than going through big rip off company, the majority who use lead acid chargers and controllers. To the best of my knowledge, I;m the only one in Aus and probably the planet that gets made dedicated lifepo4 solar charge controllers that are plug in and that's it, with charge and discharge parameters that will give the longest life and best capacities for use.

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    At the moment, if you have a solar panel system, it is set up so that should the Mains ie 240 Volt go off because of a fault or maintenance, no power from the Solar panels is allowed to be put into the Mains from your Inverter.
    This doesnt mean the solar panels arent still generating power because if its daylight they are.
    I have no idea whether you connect the Panels to a set of batteries directly then through the Inverter to pass it onto the Mains or the inverter is designed to do all the switching for you.
    Think along the lines of an emergency Generator set that only switches on when the Mains fail but only supplies power to the location, no where else.

    If you were 'Off Grid' you can set up what you like re Solar panels, Batteries, Motor generators so long as its safe BUT you cannot connect to the Mains supply without approval of the supplier who would want to see and inspect what your using for both safety and compliance with the relevant regulations for such systems.
    I think they would view any alterations to an approved system without their permission more than seriously mainly because of the Safety issue but no doubt, financial considerations would be on the list too.
    Last edited by gordon_s1942; 06-01-16 at 02:25 PM.
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    Thats where have it asre about gordon
    Its nothing like an Emergency Gen Set, which makes AC power.

    The "Powerwall" or Batterybank sits between the Panels and the Inverter, exactly as shown in the video i linked for you.
    So for all this talk of mains isolation or mains injection goes, its utter crap
    As nothing has changed.
    All that will happen, is your batteries will continue to charge if the Grid Power is off.

    In saying this, in the USA there are some systems being sold which also allow "Black Out" power.
    Which is what you are talking about.
    But for what we were discussing above, it was all about Storage of Excess Solar Generation during the day, to be used later in the day/evening, just like a big capacitor really.

    Sure, if you wanted to use that stored battery power, you could install a 3 position isolation switch.
    But that then would not allow solar and grid to work together.
    Im not even sure if it is allowed?
    Last edited by ol' boy; 06-01-16 at 02:35 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by oceanboy View Post
    Thats where have it asre about gordon
    Its nothing like an Emergency Gen Set, which makes AC power.

    The "Powerwall" or Batterybank sits between the Panels and the Inverter, exactly as shown in the video i linked for you.
    So far all this talk of isolation, mains injection goes, its utter crap
    As nothing has changed.

    In saying this, in the USA there are some systems being sold which also allow "Black Out" power.
    Which is what you are talking about.
    Of course its changed because even with that battery system on the panel side of the inverter, it would NOT supply you with power to the House when the Mains goes off which is what your after.
    I will bet you will find that the ones you quote as 'Blackout' power disconnect the system from the Mains during the time the Mains power is not available.
    I stand unequivicably behind everything I say , I just dont ever remember saying it !!

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    Quote Originally Posted by gordon_s1942 View Post
    Of course its changed because even with that battery system on the panel side of the inverter, it would NOT supply you with power to the House when the Mains goes off which is what your after.
    I will bet you will find that the ones you quote as 'Blackout' power disconnect the system from the Mains during the time the Mains power is not available.
    Considering existing Inverters do not allow that, its a mute point.
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    Seems a bit of confusion here, Gordon you are right, but so is OB in a way. In my daughters case, the grid connect was installed by a qualified sparky and as they had backup generator already, it was an easy task to swap the genny for a lifepo4 pack inverter. All it takes is a flick of a switch disconnecting the grid and connecting the pack, instead of a genny. This disconnects the grid inverter and connects the battery 12v inverter to the house system, when the panel input drops to a certain level, the switch occurs and the house power comes from the pack.

    When the system was connected to the grid, they were aware of the ability to switch to a genny. Then I got into the act and told them to install a lifepo4 pack and connect it to the genny switching, so they didn't need the grid at night. Any inspection would see other than there are more panels and as the genny is still sitting in the shed, everything looks ok. The lifepo4 pack and inverter is in a cupboard and the connections are hidden so it looks just as it should.

    As their grid inverter won't handle the input when all the new panels go in, they may have to go off grid or pay for a bigger grid inverter. because they have ordered such a large lifepo4 pack, I reckon they will go off grid and not have hassles with the grid supplier.

    My home system is similar, but not grid connected. I can switch from panel input to genny input, so when working in the workshop, if needed the genny charges the house pack at the same time. Which is what happened this year when we went well over a week without any real sun. As I run the generator on used veggie oil, there is no cost, just relatively free energy.

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