So this farce is all Billy Shortcomings fault ??Originally Posted by enf
...................and has FA to do with politicians inability to check if they are even eligible before being nominated ??
And as if the coalition has anything substantive to offer ...............................I've now had my moment of hilarity for the day................thankyou
You know what they say, A1.....the best form of defence is attack.So this farce is all Billy Shortcomings fault ??
And as if the coalition has anything substantive to offer ...............................I've now had my moment of hilarity for the day................thankyou
It's all they've got left
Nick Xenophon Now The 7th Pollie With Dual Citizenship
Is there any politician who isn't a dual citizen?
Crossbench senator Nick Xenophon has announced he will refer his election to the High Court after discovering he has a form of British citizenship.
What a load of bullsh*t...I didn't say it was Billy boys fault. I merely said that he opened the can of worms...and he did didn't he? If you'd even bothered to read any of my earlier posts I said "the law is the law" even if they didn't know it....so screw them, BUT if we're happy with that, what makes you think the ALP has anything to offer either? Except such things as more funding for your favourite ABC propaganda machine. What did YOU call it? "a left wing muff munching pillow biting 'mouthpiece' "So this farce is all Billy Shortcomings fault ??
And as if the coalition has anything substantive to offer ...............................I've now had my moment of hilarity for the day................thankyou
The ALP was always going to comfortably win the next election anyway, which I'm comfortable with. It's their turn. I dunno why TD thinks I'm not. Maybe it's just that I feel they are as incompetent, aimless and greedy as the current mob, and given that most of their people are the same ones that were there during the last fiasco why would I think differently? I voted for them, and to say I was disappointed is the understatement of the year.
We're screwed. Earlier pollies drew a line, but we will have endless nit picking of buried technicalities from now on...and the prospect of our elected leaders spending time and money on this sh*t is frightening. At least it is to me.
I see Nick Xylophone is next......fvck me!
The fact that there's a highway to hell and a stairway to heaven says a lot about the anticipated traffic flow.
So, is it this:
Or is it this:
"I think this thing is a rather sad and sordid ALP sideshow"...........now that sounds very much to me like you're blaming the ALP for the total and demonstrable incompetence, in respect of this issue, of the current government.
And Bill Shorten did not open this can of worms.
This particular can of worms was opened with the resignation of Larissa Waters and Scott Ludlam.
Are you going to blame that on the ALP as well?
As a country that proclaims to be governed by the rule of law, is it appropriate that members of our parliament, including our Deputy Prime Minister, may not have been elected lawfully?
This is not a sideshow........this is an issue that strikes at the very heart of our Legal and Constitutional system of Government.
If the law, or the Constitution, is inappropriate.....then by all means change it.....but don't ignore or bend it.
We regularly and self-righteously criticise countries that pursue that course of action.
If this can be so easily dismissed as a sideshow, how many other sections of our Constitution or our framework of laws can be equally dismissed whenever it is convenient or politically advantageous to do so?
And as for your claims about the previous Labor government...........try taking the blinkers off occasionally:
The Gillard government successfully passed 561 bills through the parliament before Julia Gillard was deposed as prime minister on 27 June 2013, including a number of significant policies. This is an impressive record from a minority government and even more so considering that no government bill was defeated on the floor of the House of Representatives.Conclusion
The record of the Gillard government is mixed. Despite being a minority government it guided 561 of its bills through the parliament to Royal Assent. Significant elements of its legislative agenda were delivered but there were also less successful outcomes. Some of the reasons include: the politics of federalism where the agreement of the states was required, pressure from major interest groups and poor political strategy caused bills to be withdrawn. The failure of 4 Labor MPs, including a government whip, to attend a vote allowed an Opposition amendment to superannuation legislation to pass and required negotiations with the Opposition to permit a new vote which the government won. The mining tax did not reap expected revenue and the carbon tax caused adverse community reaction that negatively impacted on the government’s electoral popularity. Even so, given its accomplishments in delivering policy the charge by Opposition Leader, Tony Abbott, that the Gillard government was ‘a bad government, a truly bad government….that has been monumentally incompetent’ is difficult to sustain (Abbott, T. 2013, House of Representatives, Debates, 20 March, p. 2796). However, fatal flaws in its political performance including an inability to communicate its successes to the electorate, poor political strategic judgement and consistent leadership tensions contributed to poor poll results which undermined the Gillard government and facilitated the coup that deposed her.
I am agnostic when it comes to Australian politics, but no fair-minded person could fail to acknowledge that the passage of so much legislation under such difficult circumstances was not indicative of a government populated by "incompetent, aimless and greedy" individuals.
Agreed, not the best Government we've ever had, but absolutely stellar compared to the current mob of compromised, bickering losers.
And please don't moan about the current uncooperative senate.............the Turnbull government can't even agree within itself about its own policies.....the Senate is the least of their worries.
It's difficult to prosecute a war when your own generals can't even agree on what it is you're fighting for.
It's hardly a war...well, it shouldn't be anyway. I have no animosity to either side really, as all I see are opportunistic, self centred clueless tools who have absolutely NO IDEA how to manage an economy in the modern world. The problem is that we have no choice but to switch between them as we have always done, and as we will continue to do. The wheels of the bus.....
I DO worry about the number of politicians moving into the political system that have never had to struggle whatsoever, but just have a theoretical education. Something I guess I share with these two former adversaries I suppose....although both were flawed.
Look, the ALP will be next, and that's the way it goes. I hope they will
a) get the opportunity to actually govern.
b) not get obsessed with apologising to everyone (again), gay marriage, the republic or any other useless diversions. I suspect they will however. Well, maybe gay marriage will be done by then.
Unlike yourself, I have no faith in any of them based on my experience, so I suppose arguments between us are pointless. You clearly still do. That's cool and I guess I envy you in a way.
Faith in political parties, religion, banks, unions etc is the problem as with faith there is no oversight. All belief and faith has done is resulted in self centred greed and corruption. Pollies have to survive an election, so maybe they are even ahead of those groups, I dunno....
The fact that there's a highway to hell and a stairway to heaven says a lot about the anticipated traffic flow.
Bill Shorten obviously has something to hide given that he is under a cloud and wont release proof that he isnt a dual citizen (he has an english father). Anyone that saw his Q and A squirm fest would realise this, hell even Tony Jones was getting annoyed with him. It would have been front page news if it was a Coalition member, but given its not, Teflon Bill slimes his way through again ( Its also amazing how his donations to GetUp arent under major scrutiny).
Shorten either has a problem himself, or is trying to protect the various Labor politicians who are likely dual citizens.
eaglem (25-08-17)
I have no problem with Shortens donations to GetUp. As far as I'm concerned, if the union members are happy to have THEIR money squandered on pro Billyboy propaganda then so be it.
What I have a problem with is his lying about it. As I understand it, he was head of the union at the time yet denies he knew anything about it. Same as he denied selling out his own workers for money, something his former union has just done again I believe to the point where many of their members are getting less than the new penalty rates he purports to oppose.
The fact that there's a highway to hell and a stairway to heaven says a lot about the anticipated traffic flow.
eaglem (26-08-17)
This is roughly about where it stands at the moment :
Bill Shorten will be investigated over a large donation of union funds he made to GetUp! when he was leader of the Australian Workers Union, following a referral to the Registered Organisations Commission by Employment Minister Michaelia Cash.
Senator Cash said the Opposition Leader and the AWU might “have something to hide” after failing to provide any evidence that GetUp! funding was properly authorised.
Her referral decision follows The Weekend Australian’s revelation that Mr Shorten gave about $100,000 of union money, possibly more, to the left-leaning activist group when it launched in 2005. Mr Shorten was also one of the original board members of GetUp!, which promotes itself as an “independent, grassroots, community activist organisation”.
Over the years he has refused to answer questions about what if any funding was provided by the AWU as seed capital to GetUp!. On Monday, Mr Shorten confirmed through a spokesman that the AWU under his leadership was “proud to support the establishment of GetUp!” hours after Senator Cash suggested in parliament that Mr Shorten could face accusations similar to former federal Labor MP and Health Services Union boss Craig Thomson related to unauthorised union spending.
Mr Shorten’s spokesman said the GetUp! support was “endorsed by the national executive” at the time. He referred The Australian to the AWU for “particulars”.
The AWU issued a similar statement after Mr Shorten’s comment — but both appeared to resist pressure from the government yesterday to produce details of the donation and when the money was approved.
Under the AWU’s rule 57, all such donations must be approved by its national executive.
At least five members of the AWU national executive from 2005 told The Weekend Australian that they recalled Mr Shorten raising the matter of a GetUp! donation, but they had no memory of formal approval.
They said the donation would have prompted considerable debate, if it went ahead, about why the union would fund GetUp!. Others who recalled that funds were donated put the figure at about $100,000, possibly higher, saying it would have gone to the national executive.
Senator Cash said she had referred the GetUp! funding to the ROC, the new regulator of unions and employer groups, because Mr Shorten and the AWU had “failed to provide any minutes of the AWU’s national executive, or any other written authority for this donation”.
She said yesterday: “Bill Shorten has failed to answer serious questions and confirm whether the AWU’s donation to GetUp! was properly authorised in accordance with the union’s rules. Their failure to provide this information strongly suggests that they have something to hide.”
The ROC has received a second, separate referral about Mr Shorten’s AWU donation to GetUp! from Liberal senator and former employment minister Eric Abetz. In a letter to the ROC on Monday, Senator Abetz referred to The Weekend Australian’s report and said it appeared Mr Shorten as AWU secretary was appointed to the GetUp! board in 2005 “in exchange for seed funding”.
The ROC said it had created a file and reference number, following Senator Abetz’s referral.
The ROC’s investigation will be among the first conducted by the watchdog since it was established to improve accountability late last year after the Turnbull government passed delayed legislation in the Senate. The authority has sweeping powers and can investigate past matters.
In parliament yesterday, Senator Cash said Mr Shorten had “obfuscated” when asked to recall details about the donation.
The AWU did not respond to a request for particulars of the GetUp! funding. A spokesman for Mr Shorten said he would not be commenting.
A spokeswoman for Labor industrial relations spokesman Brendan O’Connor said the government had already spent tens of millions of taxpayers’ money to smear Mr Shorten, with no adverse findings. “This is a dirty, desperate and dangerous distraction tactic from a government that has lost its way and is in total chaos,” she said.
Its also interesting to see that Get Up was also accepting donations from Russia.
But to his refusal to produce citizenship documents, have a look at the video of him on Q and A
Its hard to say whether he is in trouble personally or whether he is trying to protect other ALP politicians........regardless, his "trust me I'm a politician" crap is why he is one of our least trusted politicians. While Labor may be winning the polls, it's not hard to see why he is at least 10 points behind Turnbull in the preferred PM polls. How could any sensible person trust him after the above video, donating 100k to GetUp, selling out thousands of workers, and simply jumping on any populist cause he can find.
eaglem (25-08-17)
I have been thinking that I too have been signing a false declaration regarding my citizenship for the last almost 75 years thinking that because I was born here as was my Father and I believe his Father was, I was an Australian Citizen even though my mother was born in the UK as were her parents.
I have known since I was a small boy that because of her being born in the UK I could apply for a British Passport and this might also be available to any children I had but I believe that was changed some years ago and only allows me to apply for a UK passport now.
What I never considered was if I did gain a UK passport, it would mean I had a dual Nationality...............I just didnt associate a passport with Citizenship, thinking their two totally separate situations.
I was thinking I am Australian but with access to a UK Passport..............for whatever value or assistance it may make available by having one.
Also I had the idea that unless you did make such an application, I would be regarded as Australian in all matters but that now doesnt seem to be the case as many are finding out to their annoyance.
My Mother also believed that she too had automatically become an Australian after coming when she was 9 years old and but she found she still had to apply for Citizenship after being here for over 50 years.
With all the talk of Australia considering becoming a Republic, this might be the right time to get matters of who is entitled to be a Citizen and what those born here, have either or both parents born elsewhere and their place of Birth should they ever wish to hold public office during their lives.
I stand unequivicably behind everything I say, I just dont ever remember saying it !!
Barnaby Joyce nominated for New Zealander of the Year
Kiwi's obviously have a sense of humour.
Tongue in cheek would be his 'Greatest contribution to the Well being of New Zealand' would be his never being there or receiving any financial benefits from the Country.
I stand unequivicably behind everything I say
eaglem (26-08-17)
I'm beginning to like Kiwis more and more, now, if they could convince him to move there......
I'm out of my mind, but feel free to leave a message...
Its still absolutely mind boggling and shows just how ####ed this country now is in regards to what the media report......... Shorten is still refusing to show his papers.
Can you imagine the outcry if it was Turnbull ?
Maybe this is what Shorten is trying to hide ?
Link is paywalled.
Interesting......I dont have a subscription.
ONE of Labor’s attack dogs on citizenship, Senator Katy Gallagher, is considered an Ecuadorean dual citizen by descent under the South American nation’s constitution because her mother was born there.
Senator Gallagher, the former ACT chief minister, has said publicly that her parents were British and that she has renounced her British citizenship, but The Daily Telegraph has obtained her mother’s arrival card to Australia, which shows she was born in Ecuador.
Article seven of the Ecuadorean constitution, most recently updated in 2008, states nationality is obtained by birth or naturalisation and shall not be forfeited through marriage, dissolution or acquiring another nationality.
“The following persons are Ecuadorean by birth: persons born abroad of a mother or father born in Ecuador and their descendants up to the third degree of consanguinity.”
Ms Gallagher’s spokesman confirmed she has not renounced Ecuadorean citizenship and has not sought legal advice on whether she is a citizen under their constitution.
Early today, the senator said she “is not and never been” a citizen of Ecuador.
She said her citizenship status was investigated as part of the Labor party’s vetting when she nominated for the Senate.
“As a result of these investigations it was determined that I had not obtained Ecuadorian citizenship by descent from my mother,” she said in a statement.
The explosive revelation comes as a leaked email from Opposition Leader Bill Shorten’s office shows his plan to claim power prices, energy security, biosecurity, drought and water security have all been put at risk because of Deputy Prime Minister Barnaby Joyce’s referral to the high court over his New Zealand citizenship. While withholding information to protect their own politicians from scrutiny, the leaked email shows Mr Shorten intends to use the citizenship issue to attack the government.
“Hi all — to continue pressure on Barnaby, can your offices please draft media releases highlighting the key areas in your portfolio that will be at risk from his self-referral to the high court,” it states.
“The key targets are probably: gas mechanism, biosecurity, drought declarations, NAID, Water.”
Labor has refused to release documents to show if a group of Labor MPs and senators are dual citizens, and thus, they have avoided referral to the High Court.
Located in the National Archive, the passenger card for Ms Gallagher’s mother Elizabeth Mary, known as Betsy, shows she was born in Ecuador — a fact Ms Gallagher does not talk about publicly.
Ms Gallagher’s case is similar to those of Barnaby Joyce and Fiona Nash, because it is citizenship through descent, which had never been actively sought.
She has attacked the Nationals leadership saying they face disqualification from parliament.
“Malcolm Turnbull needs to explain why he is holding Mr Joyce and now Senator Nash to a lesser standard than Matt Canavan and not requiring them to stand down.”
In her maiden speech in federal Parliament, Ms Gallagher spoke of her parent’s British heritage but made no mention her mother was born in Ecuador.
“Mr President, my parents arrived in Canberra in 1969 from the United Kingdom via New Zealand following my father’s recruitment to the Australian Public Service,” she said on June 17, 2015.
IMO dual nationality by descent should not preclude you, provided, you immediately rectify the situation if it is discovered by any party. Dual nationality because you emigrated and you did not actively renounce your previous nation before entering parliament, despite knowing that you could not stand, should preclude you and require restitution to the Australian Taxpayer.
I can understand the oversight in the descent condition because, although many of us are aware of our forebears, how many of us could say if they were, indeed, citizens of the country from which they came. I know precious little of my father's family, He could have been a Vietnamese boat person for all I know, except he doesn't look like an Asian and died when I was 3, he did serve in the Australian Army in WW2. I think he was born in South Australia, but that's about as far as it goes.
I'm out of my mind, but feel free to leave a message...
Looks like all the pollies with dual-citizenship may be ousted by the high court if they can't show what 'reasonable steps' they took to ensure they only had Australian citizenship prior to being elected.
Add Derryn Hinch To The List
Derryn Hinch may also have fallen foul of the rule.
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