9/11 - Conspiracy or Real?

[peteramjet]

The official story is that the passengers and crew overpowered the hijackers, But in the process, the aircraft crashed. I call bull...t. The air force shot it down, but they couldn't bring themselves to tell the public.

It's possible it was shot down, but there can be little doubt the passengers did try and overpower the hijackers. There were plenty of people on that flight talking to relatives by phone as they were doing so, some who were on the phone as the plane was taken down.

The part of a conspiracy theory that is never explained by the 'believers' is the coverup. Something like 9/11 (or the apparently 'fake' moon landing) would require the assistance of 100's (or thousands) of people to coverup. Why do none of these people ever come forward with actual credible evidence?

These 'believers' sometimes forget that the truth is simply stranger than the fiction of their conspiracy theories they choose to believe.

[Skepticist]

I said real
It was real planes with real people hitting real buildings at max speed doing real destruction and taking real lives.

However, there is still room for a conspiracy related to the planning and funding of it all plus the underestimation of how hard an 'inferior' enemy could hit back after all the decades of interference in middle east economics and politics. There is still a disbelief in the US, even after 16 years, that any enemy could possibly attack the homeland so successfully which leads to the conclusion that 'the gubmint musta done it' (inside job).

[ol' boy]

This YouTube channel has some interesting footage

[ol' boy]

I'd always wondered where the footage is from the Helicopter that is circling the Twin Towers the whole time.
You see heaps of other footage, but i've seen nothing from the Helicopter that was close by.
Hard to imagine it wouldn't have had a camera on board.

[gordon_s1942]

If anybody has ever watched a demonstration on how the Towers collapsed floor by floor soon sees why it reduced everything to rubble as it did.
At the beginning, each floor collapsed onto the next and what was between them was simply mashed but once the total mass increased as it added a floor at a time, the pressure between each floor must have been incredible.
Then you add the shock waves each time a floor stopped as it hit the next played a part in the total demolition of the building.
The first few floors went fairly slowly but once it amassed sufficient weight, the last part was almost a constant downward flow.

The closest thing I have ever seen to that has been film of what they call a 'Pyroclastic' flow when a Volcano erupts.
The building was externally supported by that steel paneling rather than an internal spine most used and once it gave way, the building was doomed.

[ol' boy]

If anybody has ever watched a demonstration on how the Towers collapsed floor by floor soon sees why it reduced everything to rubble as it did.
At the beginning, each floor collapsed onto the next and what was between them was simply mashed but once the total mass increased as it added a floor at a time, the pressure between each floor must have been incredible.
Then you add the shock waves each time a floor stopped as it hit the next played a part in the total demolition of the building.
The first few floors went fairly slowly but once it amassed sufficient weight, the last part was almost a constant downward flow.

I totally agree gordon
I'm not expert, but i don't think it takes a genius to work out the upper portion of that building, above where the plane impacted would weigh an insane amount!
Like a Pile Driver x10000 when it would have collapsed to the floor below.
The shock wave through the building structure would have reverberated to many floors lower, cracking and displacing anything structural, before the sheer mass of the upper building smashed into them. Like a Karate Chop on a stack of block work.

You hear a lot of "Truthers" carrying on about the explosions coming out of the building, directly the below the destructive falling mass.
Clearly that has to be compressed air trying to get out.

Not too much mention the "Rocket Stove" effect a building fire would have as it tunnelled flames up like a huge chimney!

[Tiny]

I'd always wondered where the footage is from the Helicopter that is circling the Twin Towers the whole time.
You see heaps of other footage, but i've seen nothing from the Helicopter that was close by.
Hard to imagine it wouldn't have had a camera on board.

I reckon those other 2 or 3 helicopters closer to the buildings were police/rescue heli's making assessment calls & since there was plenty of news footage shot from the safe distance the News heli's were asked to keep from the buildings, it wasn't freely available to any one without clearance to view for the aftermath assessment..

How can anyone say it was staged? tell that to the families of the Plane passengers, Pilots, Hostesses, Workers in the buildings, Fireman, Paramedics & other rescue workers who lost their lives.

You probably guessed I voted real.

[ol' boy]

Yeah, good point Re the Helicopter Tiny, i think i remember that now.

Like you, i totally agree with all points.
But after taking the shit out of my friend, i did sit down a watch a bunch of their theories.
Some are kind of plausible and then they go all the way from there, to the completely bonkers.

What surprised me more than anything, was the amount of, and strength of the Conspiracy believers.
Which really only solidifies most peoples concerns about a certain portion of Americans.

For a bunch that believe in religion like that do, it really comes as no surprise.
But in their Videos, i never seen so many so called Experts, Doctors, Engineers, Pilots and Ex Military personal.

They remind me a lot of this

[Skepticist]

Most of the vertical strength of the buildings was concentrated in the core columns which were sections welded (possibly not well enough) on top of each other. The outer walls did the rest (vertically) and they were sections bolted together. The floors were only 100mm lightweight concrete (not even as strong as the average driveway) laid on corrugated iron supported by trusses which were anchored only by bolts at the ends so the floors were only rated to carry their own weight and stabilised the outer walls to the core.

The whole assembly was very stable as an intact whole but slamming a 100tonne aircraft into the core at over 500mph was somewhat over the design's capability and the ensuing fires were the last straw.

[lsemmens]

One of my mates is a pilot, at the time, he felt that he had the safest job in the world. He was flying Muslims to Mecca. At the time, I think he was with Emirates.

[tony54]

its easy to see why it collapsed - it was physically connected to the main Plaza , and a massive fire started in the basement substation when the others collapsed. with no water available in the sprinkler heads ( due to the others collapsing ) the fire engulfed the lower storeys weakening the whole structure.

I don't know, you don't see too many buildings that size collapse because of a fire
Different with the two towers with the all of the jet fuel burning away

[enf]

...............................

How can anyone say it was staged? tell that to the families of the Plane passengers, Pilots, Hostesses, Workers in the buildings, Fireman, Paramedics & other rescue workers who lost their lives.

You probably guessed I voted real.

How? Because some people just WANT to believe, that's why mate.....I find it amazing that we are even discussing this (and yes I put my 2¢ worth in)....we need a Fantasy Land section.

[ol' boy]

.....I find it amazing that we are even discussing this (and yes I put my 2¢ worth in)....we need a Fantasy Land section.

Well we all laughed out loud at the notion of Donald Trump running for President.......
Obviously, some people are suspicious of the story which was told in the media and there after.
The Pole in this thread proves that point

The thing i find interesting, is the "Truthers" all say "Planned Demolition" because of the way the buildings fell down.
Especially WTC 7

My question would be to the Truthers, if you were trying to make this NOT look like a planned event, wouldn't you take steps to make the buildings fall down in any other way then traditional demolition? (but then they would have a conspiricay about thet)
And while i'm at it, i'd ask them how all these explosives and there means of detonation stayed intact while WTC7 and the Twin Towers were on fire

[exited]

How? Because some people just WANT to believe, that's why mate.....I find it amazing that we are even discussing this (and yes I put my 2¢ worth in)....we need a Fantasy Land section.

That was probably my fault

Yep. The other one doing the rounds is why WTC7 fell down and this one didn't.

You'll never hear the end of it

[kclar]

The day before 9-11 Rumsfeld comes out and says we cant account for 3 trillion dollars.The next day the offices where the investigation of the missing money are destroyed by a missile /plane. Two 100 story buildings are destroyed by aircraft that cant fly at the speed at the height they were at . Next thing we are going to war. No mention of the missing money and no police investigation into the murder that happened. Enough for me to see a con job .

[mtv]

Two 100 story buildings are destroyed by aircraft that cant fly at the speed at the height they were at .

What speed and altitude do you claim those 767's were at?

[Skepticist]

With all due respect, It appears you've watched a few too many crazy youtube claims.

There's common confusion over VMO vs VNE and the planes achieved their high terminal speed (never exceeding the airframe max rating of 0.86 mach) by diving - all very possible and the hijackers weren't too concerned about damaging the aircraft, passenger comfort or voiding warranties etc.
The 'missing 3 trillion dollars' was only an accumulated problem with a variety of accounting systems and surely you don't believe the claims that relevant data was not backed up elsewhere. No data was actually lost and the last I heard, nearly all of the missing funds had been accounted for.

Virtually all the conspiracy claims have perfectly ordinary explanations. I said 'virtually' so the challenge is to find the odd ones out.

[kclar]

[ol' boy]

I do find this image interesting

[Skepticist]

That one was part of the recent FBI release of pics?
It doesn't show anything new, just shows some important points a little better like the path of the plane through the 3 rings from entry to exit, extent of fire in the roof cavity and the expansion joints in the construction. It's strong evidence against the theories of explosives and/or missiles.