HID Gold class readers

[gristle]

Hi there. We have been asked to take over a Tecom site with HID Gold Class readers. Will it mean new readers and fobs for all? Cheers

[jimmyc]

Yes, unless you want to order from the incumbent a swap of reader heads and fobs is required.

[gristle]

Thanks that was my understanding. Each unique code issued to an installer and not then available through anyone else such as DAS, Seadan etc?

[jimmyc]

Thanks that was my understanding. Each unique code issued to an installer and not then available through anyone else such as DAS, Seadan etc?

Even if they had them no reputable supplier will disclose site codes for other companies. It would defeat the purpose and compromise the security of the sites.

Sent from my HTC 2PS6200 using Tapatalk

[gristle]

Fully agree and we have a key focus on integrity in our small security business but this will be the second case this week for us of an incumbent holding the customer at ransom by refusing to provide codes when they wish to change service providers. The other one is a Tecom Smart Card setup and they are refusing to provide the card security passwords so that all existing cards will need to be reissued after we default readers.

We haven't dealt with HID Gold Class before but it appears it can be used as an appropriate higher level of security or simply to protect your patch.

My thoughts are that installers should not use any such technology for the latter purpose. Trade on your good name and quality of service. Thsee codes in my opinion belong to the customer.

In both above cases the customer has initiated the desire to change security providers due to a cited lack of service.

[Poody]

In my humble opinion the code security code used in the Tecom Smart reader is IP owned by the customer as it is part of the programming do by the integrator.
If they were doing their job properly then each site would be unique and handing it over would not be an issue.
Its the same as locking out panels. If its not yours then don't......
A few years ago now I was involved as an "expert" witness in a court case where the integrator refused to give information related to Tecom Smart cards.
The client won the case and was awarded costs and a value to reinstate the system. The integrator vanished to Queensland.
The HID gold class is another thing again. Creates a proprietary system that is locked down to the provider.

[gristle]

Thanks Poody. Interesting that the courts saw it that way. How really then are the HID Gold Readers any different to Tecom Smart Card Readers? They tie the customer to the original provider if they won't release the codes to the next one..... Similar principle to being able to have your new vehicle serviced by any licensed mechanic as long as it is to spec, without voiding your warranty. The customer should have that choice

[Poody]

I agree with you.
I think the idea from HID is to lock the customer to a provider.
It is tying the credential to the reader.
You cannot replace a non coded reader because the credentials wont work which makes it worse than Tecom Smart readers as you can default them and start again as a last resort.
The security is just between the credential and the reader. Generally the system doesn't know if the reader is connected or not, whereas the Tecom and some other lan based readers are part of the system.

[abababa]

Hi,

Just thought I would add on this despite it being old, the Tecom technology is prox HITAG which essentially locates the 4 byte security password on an area of the card readable by the reader, this is different as it is using prox which is a one-way technology so while the cards uses 27bit Tecom I believe there are up to 42 bits on the card and hides the password in the latter area of the card, while this password is on the card and the reader the site owner or the end user as such owns the system and has a few options:
- Retrieve the code from the programmer used to program the cards by connecting and uploading to Titan which will give you the code.
- Send a number of cards with written approval from site owner to Hills and it can actually be retrieved by Interlogix(normally takes a few weeks)
- Purchase and issue new cards to each user on site, Default the readers from 19 >> 28 >> RAS and choose default option on reader and re-address it and learn in the a new 4 byte security password.

So worst case scenario you can pay to retrieve the password or pay to replace the cards(never replace the readers these can be defaulted to remove the password)

As for gold class, terrible system by HID which not even HID can do anything even for end user as the installer owns the encryption which is alot more sophisticated than the Tecom password which is just a number essentially and could technically be brute forced.