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Thread: His is one for your SMART Satellite guys " Work this out"

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    Default His is one for your SMART Satellite guys " Work this out"

    RE: On A perticular Satellite Eutelsat 172 E I cannot get Vertical.
    I have my roving 2.3M Joysky Mesh Satellite dish than can go from Measat @ 91.5 E to NSS 9 at 177 Deg West. Now that a lot of Satellites. I get on Vert and Horz on the signals are strong enough on a 2.3M on Measat, Asiasat 5, Asiasat 7, Telcom 1 (gone now), Palapa at 113 deg E, China sat 6B Yes I get heaps of V and H there, Chinasat 6A I get a Heap of V and H there, I get Vinasat 134 deg V only as there are NO Horz there, I get Telstar 18 at 138 Deg E both V and H ok.

    Now we will go further past 138 deg E I get Intelsat 19 at 166 Deg there. I get all what available on a 2.3M Dish but mainly I'm talking about The Vertical platform. I get reasonable strong YTN (S Korea) ON Vert, I get Arirang On Vert + other on Vert Yes The Horz are Good too like NHK and others so after this I USED to Go the Intelsat 805 at 169 Deg and there I use to Get V and H OK but Mainly I want to talk about the Vert Sky Mux as I used to get this Strongly but after this bird is now De funked (inclined) the services on V and H have Swapped to Eutelsat A at 172 Deg East. Yes only 3 Degrees away and I get Horz Perfect with plenty of Grunt but Vert Mux The Sky Mux is Missing but its there.

    Now the big Now. I have my Dish pointed to Eutelsat 172A and I plug the Digital Sat Finder in the spare port and skew the LNB about 6 degrees Yes it seems a LOT and I find it BUT yes BUT when I lock it there and I make the Dish go slowly backwards to the Western sky until I get to Asiasat 5 at 100 Deg E I lost most of the Horizontal Transponders.

    I would like to remind you that I use to get V (Sky Mux )and H strongly on Intelsat 805 which was at 169 Deg but yet 3 degrees more west when this mux has jumped too I cannot get it. Its Like if the satellite Eutelsat A at 172 Deg itself is Skewed.

    Again If I adjust my LNB so I get it, Adjust it minimum wise, the small adjustment so I don't hurt H , I stuff ever other satellite mainly on H and Some Vert. Something is wrong here and does not add up.

    Work this issue out guys
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    I am unable to check 172E as a tree obscures that location, but it sounds from your description that the vertical antenna on Eutelsat 172 is slightly mis-aligned as you have (logically) suggested. It does happen.

    Which transponders (frequency etc.) are you referring to?

    There are only two vertical transponders listed at . (The listing at at satbeams is very old and I could not find any transponder loading information at the Eutelsat website).

    Reading the 'Eutelsat 172A @172E Chat & Reports' thread at the apsatttv website might help you. A member there reports the same problem. (Perhaps it's you?).

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    maybe this can help . . . . "Eutelsat 172A at 172.0E"




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    Eutelsat 172B is now in place at 172E and will be active in November. Maybe the problem will solve itself

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    Hallelujah for that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tristen View Post
    I am unable to check 172E as a tree obscures that location, but it sounds from your description that the vertical antenna on Eutelsat 172 is slightly mis-aligned as you have (logically) suggested. It does happen.

    Which transponders (frequency etc.) are you referring to?

    There are only two vertical transponders listed at . (The listing at at satbeams is very old and I could not find any transponder loading information at the Eutelsat website).

    Reading the 'Eutelsat 172A @172E Chat & Reports' thread at the apsatttv website might help you. A member there reports the same problem. (Perhaps it's you?).
    I used to watch 4160V S/R 5000 FEC 5/6 mod 8PSK on Intelsat 805 Perfect!! Good Horsepower!!.. Now 3 Degrees East more (Same freq and SR) on Eutelsat 172 I cannot get it until I skew the LNB about !/2 or 5/8 of a inch anti clockwise looking from behind but when I do this The transponder lights up on Eutelsat 172 but all the others on others satellites lose or become dead.
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    Quote Originally Posted by apsattv View Post
    Eutelsat 172B is now in place at 172E and will be active in November. Maybe the problem will solve itself
    Yes if this happens you will all read it here and or on NZ Satellite Forum
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    Quote Originally Posted by tristen View Post

    (Perhaps it's you?).
    Yes

    By the way I also cannot get that other Vert Transponder "PNG TV" But HOPE is very Strong on H
    Last edited by Mr 672A; 13-10-17 at 03:32 PM.
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    From your description:

    It sounds like a case of vertical antenna misalignment on the satellite as I indicated above, while the horizontal antenna is not misaligned.

    It's a simple deduction....not 'rocket science'.

    There are many factors which influence reception reliability/data stream integrity.

    The amount of error correction is critical. An FEC of 1/2 means that 50% of data (1 bit in 2) is for error correction and has often been used in tropical areas where signal attenuation occurs due to the prevailing unfavourable weather conditions.

    An FEC value of 5/6 as reportedly employed for tp. 17 (4160 V) means that there is very little error correction, with only 1 bit in 6 being for error correction.

    The power output of each transponder is not necessarily set to maximum but can be considerably lower.
    'Feeds' intended for networks generally operate at comparatively low power as the networks concerned employ large (5m and upwards diameter) commercial/professional dishes and associated equipment for reception.

    Modulation method also affects signal integrity. More sophisticated modulation techniques e.g. 8PSK versus QPSK, results in higher data throughput but also increases the possibility of higher error rates (and subsequent loss/deterioration of signal). LNB alignment is also more critical.

    There are many internet sites which discuss the various transmission methods/standards/protocols, e.g. the satsig website ().

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    Quote Originally Posted by tristen View Post
    From your description:

    It sounds like a case of vertical antenna misalignment on the satellite as I indicated above, while the horizontal antenna is not misaligned.
    Yes If I give it 12 to 15 MM adjustment on my Scaler ring I get it FULL Bore Yes a SNR on my duo2 around 82-85 and its solid but unfortunately it does not work where it should be for any other satellites. Will see if it changes in the future after 172A disappears.
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    Forgive my unknowledgeable intrusion but I cannot see how anything could get 'misaligned' on a Satellite unless it was deliberately done so by the operator to reduce their signal being received by other than the intended customer.
    On first reading I wondered if it was being interfered with by another source as I remember reading how some C Band signals that had been readily received had been badly affected by the use of new microwave links.
    I stand unequivicably behind everything I say , I just dont ever remember saying it !!

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    Sometimes satellite antennae are damaged at launch. as indicated at .

    Perhaps it is due to operator error.

    The fact is it is not aligned correctly.

    [quote]...unless it was deliberately done so by the operator to reduce their signal being received by other than the intended customer.(/quote]

    No need for that when it's simple to reduce the output power of that transponder so that there is insufficient signal for 'small' dish reception.

    ...On first reading I wondered if it was being interfered with by another source as I remember reading how some C Band signals that had been readily received had been badly affected by the use of new microwave links.
    That's unlikely as the OP states that the problem is cured by slightly rotating the LNB (which results in slight receive antenna polarity adjustment).

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    Quote Originally Posted by gordon_s1942 View Post
    Forgive my unknowledgeable intrusion but I cannot see how anything could get 'misaligned' on a Satellite unless it was deliberately done so by the operator to reduce their signal being received by other than the intended customer.
    On first reading I wondered if it was being interfered with by another source as I remember reading how some C Band signals that had been readily received had been badly affected by the use of new microwave links.
    Yes I had a Issue like this as I live near Penrith Sydney and on Elizabeth Road (From Liverpool to Mulgau) Telstra had a Microwave that was effect me but it did not do this by shifting the Vert and not wiping it out, IT JUST WIPED ME OUT in certain freq.

    Yes they possible mis aligned the V antenna. Why do this as people can adjust the LNB and get it. I cant do this because I look at MANY,MANY sats on the same dish. Easy fix is spend more Money for another 2.3M dish and connect to another NEW Multi Switch (V and H) for all my boxes. I have 9 Dishes and I use 7 Multi Switches. Only 2 dishes don't have Spaun Multi Switched.
    The Biggest mistake I ever did was not buy ORIGINALLY when I start my Sat room is 1 to 16 DISEqC Switcheds. I use 1 to 8 DiSEqC switched. The 16 ported DiSEqC switches are hard to find at the time.
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    I was thinking about Another 2.3 Dish. Dish 1. 2.3 M dish from 91.5 to 140 Deg E. Dish 2 2.3M from 140 Deg E to 177 W. I can get the V on Eutelsat 172 and get most of what I need on 166, 180 and 177 W. Will wait until next year.
    I have a dedicated Fixed Dish on Intelsat 19 @ 166 + a 1.8 Dish for Ku
    Last edited by Mr 672A; 16-10-17 at 11:29 AM.
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    If it doesnt workout when they switch it to Eutelsat 172B. Then just bolt on a 2nd cband LNBF correctly skewed so that when the dish is on say @166E the 2nd LNBF is correctly postioned on 172E?

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    Quote Originally Posted by apsattv View Post
    If it doesnt workout when they switch it to Eutelsat 172B. Then just bolt on a 2nd cband LNBF correctly skewed so that when the dish is on say @166E the 2nd LNBF is correctly postioned on 172E?
    I wonder how the Second LNB'f work. By having two of them side by side doesn't this effect them both as they are not in the middle of the Dish?. Don't understand this bit.
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    It does result in reduced efficiency, but this can be tolerated if the signal level is adequate.

    I personally do not like this approach preferring instead to do things in a conventional 'by-the-book' method.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tristen View Post
    It does result in reduced efficiency, but this can be tolerated if the signal level is adequate.

    I personally do not like this approach preferring instead to do things in a conventional 'by-the-book' method.
    2.3M dish + S2 signals = Low/lock Signals and after reading that the books tells you to make sure the scaler rings are in the exact middle of the dish. I wonder how these dual LNB work with two Scaler rings considering non of them are in the middle?
    Maybe they might work ok if you have a Dish size of 4M with today's powerful Satellites.
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    Ive just checked 172E Eutalsat 172A both Horz and Vert transponder still coming in strong for me using a 2.7mt Solid and DVB Dream I get the following

    3916H . 3330 . Hope Ch . 86%
    4160V. 5000. HD Adhoc . 86%
    4196H 1415 . Kandu . 86%


    You might have a few things
    1. A misaligned LNBF Polarity, try switching 3916H to Vert and see if it loads. or the Declination is slightly out causing the dish to drop off at lower end of arc.
    Alternatively.
    2. You are getting wiped out with 5G mobile or Aviation radar. though 5G mobile operate in the 3.5- 3.7Ghz band abd are only starting to become a problem.

    Good Luck

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    Quote Originally Posted by cmoore View Post
    Ive just checked 172E Eutalsat 172A both Horz and Vert transponder still coming in strong for me using a 2.7mt Solid and DVB Dream I get the following

    3916H . 3330 . Hope Ch . 86%
    4160V. 5000. HD Adhoc . 86%
    4196H 1415 . Kandu . 86%


    You might have a few things
    1. A misaligned LNBF Polarity, try switching 3916H to Vert and see if it loads. or the Declination is slightly out causing the dish to drop off at lower end of arc.
    Alternatively.
    2. You are getting wiped out with 5G mobile or Aviation radar. though 5G mobile operate in the 3.5- 3.7Ghz band abd are only starting to become a problem.

    Good Luck
    I don't think so.

    But I get every available satellites from 91.5 deg E to 177 west which is past Intelsat 180 Deg E and that's a Lot. I use to get this vert mux Strong when it was 3 Degrees away at 169 Deg E. Now its on 3 degrees further west and I find it ONLY if I skew the LNB a little but by doing this I lose most of Horz on other Satellites. Your Option 2 is more like to be the issue against option 1.
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