160W Portable Folding Solar Panel

[Rick]

Ok so I have no idea when it comes to solar panels, anyway i'm building up a camper box and going to hard mount the solar panel, I purchased this 160W Portable Folding Solar Panel for next to nothing, but the controller is not what I want to use, this is the type of controller I want to fit internally my question is will this controller work with my panels, or can someone recommend a suitable controller to use, thanks in advance

[mtv]

Can't see any reason why that controller wouldn't work, providing you use one of the battery types specified.

[Thala Dan]

Yep....that will work fine, Rick.

I bought a similar panel (120w) on ebay, and did exactly the same....turfed the crappy little black box controller on the back, and replaced it with one with more bells and whistles.

As long as the controller is rated to handle the potential output current of your panels (which it is) you should have no problems.

[Rick]

Thanks heaps, yes after something more detailed than the current controller, is the load one showing the lamp symbol required to be connected? or is it designed if you want to run a light direct from the panel?

[mtv]

The lamp symbol is just indicating that's where you connect the load.... according to the specs, anything up to 20 amps.

You could still have devices connected to the battery directly, but the controller is designed to disconnect power to a load through it if the battery voltage falls too low (10.7V default setting).

[Thala Dan]

Thanks heaps, yes after something more detailed than the current controller, is the load one showing the lamp symbol required to be connected? or is it designed if you want to run a light direct from the panel?

Rick,

I think you will find that the "Load" terminals are used only if you want to utilise the "Discharge Stop" and Discharge Reconnect" facilities.

If you connect your load to those terminals, then the controller will switch the load off if the battery voltage drops below 10.7V, and reconnect it once the battery voltage rises above 12.6V, according to the blurb.

You can still connect your load directly to the battery if you wish, but you will not have that "Discharge Stop" protection.

[Rick]

Basically i'll be running a house battery with a compressor fridge/freezer Waeco 12 volt, and a 1000watt inverter and a handful of LED lights, so would you suggest wiring the inverter to the load side? or just wire both fridge and inverter direct to the battery, and would 20AMP be enough?

[Thala Dan]

A bit of missing info there, Rick,

What type and capacity of battery, estimated total amp/hours used per day, and I trust you won't be running that 1000W inverter flat strap

20 Amps is plenty insofar as your panel is concerned, as it's can only provide around 8.8 A at best anyway....so no chance your'e going to fry anything there.

What type of battery will you be using.......the type will have some bearing on how far down you can pull it.

What is the current draw of the fridge? Presumably you'll be running it all night?

What will the load be on the inverter, and for what sort of duration?

[Uncle Fester]

Regulator looks OK but expect to get only a couple of hours run time for the fridge at night assuming smaller fridge compressor with 120W (or even less) and what is running on the inverter?
4 x 12V 6W LEDs are still going to use about 100Wh in just four hours.

Your problem is your panel and that you do not enough power to charge the battery for the night while the fridge runs and 160W panel might be more like 120W x 4hours realistically over the day.
Even if the fridge uses only 60W and runs 50% that is 720Wh over 24 hours, but you get only 480Wh give or take.
This is what you should have bought (and far cheaper too):
and for that price 2 of them.

I know it is not that portable but only 80cm wide is quite a breakthrough for a 250W panel.

Probaly best to wire the fridge directy to battery terminals because of startup surge.

[GT250]

Hi Rick,
Always a can of worms when people want to power stuff portable with panels

I assume that the waeco 12volt fridge is powered (how you want to do it), by the 12v/240v adaptor and you want to run that adaptor and other things off the 1000W inverter.

1000W inverter (I assume it a modified Sine Wave - not Pure SW), is more than suitable for the fridge and lights. However, the bigger the inverter the more power it requires just to be 'turned on'.

The portable set up is nice (fold up, into a bag). But remember that any panel only has the advertised maximum power input when faced directly into the sun and of course with the panel being portable you will have to keep moving it/angling it accordingly.
As nomeat says bigger panels are far better and whilst not portable, could you just stand/prop them up?

If you're in one place, use your foldable and at least have a 250w, get some plugs etc and have the ability to connect them in parallel. Yours 8A+bigger 16A = 24A. Even though your controller is rated to 20A, it's unlikely the panels will go higher than in the real world. However, 30A controllers are ten a penny.

The fridge I assume consumes on average 40Wph. As nomeat says there might be a compressor surge that will call on a lot of current to kick start the compressor, then it will tick over etc. The load of the regulator might not like that.
As stated anything attached to the load will disconnect if the battery falls below 10.7v.

Are you running the lights off the inverter as well?

Basic figures as nomeat was saying (but my thinking is in Amps): EG: 300w / 12 v of solar in 8hours of DIRECT FULL FACE ON SUN will produce 200A. Waeco fridge avg 40wpd/12v = 80Apd (960Watts). Lights 4x12v at 6w = 2A ph. So lights on for 10hrs is 20A.

Soooo (if i'm right). A 300w panel with 8hours of FULL input will put 200A into you battery. Fridge 80A per day, + Lights @10hours is 20A = 100A

So on paper, a 300W panel 'can' generate 200A a day - your usage is 100A a day.

Of course it's not a perfect world. The solar regulator is not 100% efficient (uses the panel to run), plus internal losses. The Inverter is the worse consumption, may take 5% just to run (internals, cooling fan etc), Loss of cables, connections and so on.

In all things solar. Get BIG panels if you can.

And remember that Modified sinewave inverters should not be used on many electronic devices like phone chargers (the transformer type are ok, but not the electronic type which virtually everything is nowadays). Pure Sine Wave (PSW), are the go.

Hope that helps.
GT250

[ol' boy]

expect to get only a couple of hours run time for the fridge

He is in Tassie mate, will the fridge even turn on?

[bob_m_54]

Download this spreadsheet, and plug in your details of powered devices, batteries and panels. Play around with the panel size and battery size etc and see how it affects your charge level.


Also, 5A for 5 hours will give you 25Amp Hours (AH), not 25Amps, or 25Amps/Day.

[ol' boy]

If you are going to "Hard Mount" the solar panel Rick
A single large panel would offer better Watts per Dollar (But as you got a folder PV cheap, then use that)

I think a Potable Panel array is better anyway, you hardly ever want your Camper in a full sun position
(IE: Camper in Shade, PV in the sun with lead, move panels for optimum output)
Although fixed is safer if you will be away from your camp site prospecting for hours at a time.

As for sizing it, you can do all the Calcs or just go Bigger is Better
Run 3x100Ah Batteries, Your Panels and enjoy the headroom you have given yourself
Better on Battery longevity also to not discharge them too deeply (unless Lithium i guess)
So increasing your storage capacity will provide this.

Something i found helpful was this little in-line meter


I see he is Out os Stock, but hundreds sell the exact same thing

In your case as everything is "Fixed" just purchase the unit without the anderson coupling or the proper Solar Controller will give you the same info
I run this one, but its Old tech nowdays:

Does 2x100Ah AGM Batts fine
Fully Programable

There is now better available, this video might be helpful

[Thala Dan]

Also, 5A for 5 hours will give you 25Amp Hours (AH), not 25Amps, or 25Amps/Day.

Thanks Bob,

The degree of misunderstanding of this subject is unfortunate, as it creates a lot of confusion for those not electrically-oriented.

Here are some simple definitions:

Amp – the Ampere (Amp) is a measure of the FLOW of electricity at any given point in time.

AmpHour – the AmpHour is a measure of an AMOUNT of energy – for example, one Amp flowing for one Hour will transfer a total amount of energy of one AmpHour.

Watt - A watt (W) is a unit of power, and power is the rate at which energy is produced or consumed. A 40watt device consumes 40watts of power continuously whilst ever it is connected to a power source.

Watts are calculated by multiplying Amps by Volts….so if you have any devices that are marked in Watts (rather than Amps) simply divide the Watts by the Voltage (12V), and the result will be the Amps drawn by the device.

For 240V devices to be used with your inverter, divide their 240Volt wattage by 12 volts, and then add 10% to the resultant current to allow for losses and inverter efficiency.

WattHour - A watt-hour (Wh) is a unit of energy; it’s a way to measure the amount of work performed or generated. The above 40 watt device would consume 40 WattHours if left switched on for one hour.

Rick, there is only one unit of measure that you should be using in working this issue.

That is the AmpHour, as Bob has highlighted.

It is the most appropriate and simple unit to use.

Your battery capacity is quoted in AmpHours.

Although your panels are referred to as 160 watts, their purpose is to provide as many Amps as possible to your battery for as many hours as possible (AmpHours). Battery capacity is not expressed in Watts.

Your Waeco consumption will be shown in Amps.

You will notice that the spreadsheet kindly provided by Bob performs all of its calculation in AmpHours.

Amps/day and Watts per hour, are not units of measurement in the world of electricity.

So, you need to determine how many amps each of your devices will draw, and for how long each of them will draw that amount of current.

The product of the number of Amps drawn, and the number of Hours the Amps will be required, will give you the number of AmpHours that you will need on a daily basis in your system.

You then have to determine how many AmpHours your panels will provide on an average day.

This is very much like “how long is a piece of string”….dependent on:

1. Angle of the panels to the sun – you said you are hard mounting to the camper – that will limit the amount of time the panels are directly perpendicular to the sun (generally maximum output).

2. Obstructions – over head trees, shadows, dust, bird messages, etc. on panels.

3. Cloud cover.

4. Time of year.

Your battery will hopefully be able to make up any shortfall for a limited period of time if the solar panels are unable to restore the energy used during the previous night – very much dependent on the size and type of your battery.

But, ultimately, your panels must be able to return to the battery more energy than that which you have consumed……or the lights will go out…literally.

The following graph shows the effect of sun angle on typical solar panel output.

Note that prior to 0700, and after 1700, the output of the panel is effectively zero. These two points are subject to seasonal variation:



The blue curve is a fixed panel, the red curve is a panel set up to track the sun.

Note also, that both curves are for a panel tilted 32 deg towards the sun....the results will be somewhat less for a panel lying horizontal.

Not totally definitive, but gives you an idea of the difference.

[ol' boy]

The single biggest problem i have found with people and their camper trailer batteries
Has nothing to do with sizing, usage, capacity, etc..... It's when they get home, they just stuff the thing in the shed or behind the shed and forget about it.

Then pull it out next season and wonder why the the brand new battery they bought is rooted.

[loanrangiel]

Waeco's run directly on 12v so no 240v adapter required, i have a 50ltr dual zone Waeco and run it off a 145ah deep cycle and use a 120w panel to top up the battery.
Most cheap controllers are PWM so a good MPPT controller mounted close to the battery is the ideal scenario, my panel came with a PWM controller that i removed from the back of the panel and mounted it in the battery box alongside the fuse box.

I also have a 20w panel that is used to keep the battery topped up when the camper isnt being used.

[Thala Dan]

The single biggest problem i have found with people and their camper trailer batteries
Has nothing to do with sizing, usage, capacity, etc..... It's when they get home, they just stuff the thing in the shed or behind the shed and forget about it.

Then pull it out next season and wonder why the the brand new battery they bought is rooted.

Many also find that their 3-way and compressor fridges aren't feeling so flash after 6-8 months of non-operation.

[bob_m_54]

Yes, although it may seem pedantic, and you may know what you mean when using incorrect measurement units, others don't. It also makes it very difficult to use any formulas unless you have the correct units of measurement.
Don't even get me started on cable sizing LOL. cable sizes quoted as for example "6mm wire", means nothing. You need to differentiate whether you are talking about "6mm Auto Cable" or 6mm² (CSA) cable.

Another point that may not have been mentioned yet, is it's preferable not to regularly discharge your batteries lower than 50% State of Charge, if you want them to last as long as possible. See this chart.

[ol' boy]

Yep, learnt that from members here
I have multiple chargers now and 3x100Ah batteries that get weekly maintenance
My oldest AGM 100Ah Battery would be perhaps 5 years old and still gives me the same capacity on the same fridge when away

Weaco 40L, Ambient 34 degrees (hotter in day time), 3 days of 24/7 running at 2 degrees..... With No Charging of any kind, Battery at 50% (when fridge is running)
As far as i like to take it.

With No Solar Panel, you can run the vehicle for 20minutes and 80Amp Alternator gives it some help.

In your case Rick, use the Solar Panel you have to maintain the Batteries when at home.
If your camper will be stored in a garage/shed, some people just buy a smaller panel and mount it on the shed roof for that purpose.