High Court Rules Against 5 Dual-Citizenship Polies, Including Barnaby Joyce

**mtv** · 27-10-17, 03:07 PM

The High Court has ruled Barnaby Joyce (Nationals), Malcolm Roberts (One Nation), Scott#Ludlum (Greens), Larissa Waters (Greens) and Fiona Nash (Nationals) ineligible for Parliament.

Nick Xenophon (NXT) and Matthew Canavan (Nationals) are safe.

If you have plenty of spare time and wish to read the full High Court Ruling, it's available .

**Neddie** · 27-10-17, 05:12 PM

I can only agree with one of the commentators the quoted site.

While many are noting the low stocks of the Greens at the moment, let us all never, ever forget that it was only our 2 Greens Senators that behaved in anything like a dignified and respectful (of the Nation) manner in their humble acceptance & resignation; many of the others literally squirming their way around to avoid their Fate.
Let’s see what our Hollow Man of a PM now has to say about the High Court’s decisions, his clear pre-empting of these, and (self-inflicted) assorted other local difficulties.

**gordon_s1942** · 27-10-17, 05:51 PM

Like all good 'Soap Opera's' we now have the 'Friday Night End of Season' cliffhanger until by-elections are held for those seats declared Vacant.

Its most likely Barnaby Joyce will regain his seat as may those others affected but based on previous elections where the Bluest of Blue Ribbon Seats you had to die to loose, the Electorate in a show of dissatisfaction, may go to another !!!!

**enf** · 27-10-17, 06:16 PM

I have no problem with it....the law is the law...if you don't like it, change it.

**mkhannah** · 27-10-17, 06:28 PM

If labor can get it right, and the liberals can get it right, there's really no excuse for the other parties. At the end of the day they were plain lazy.
If I was a betting man...I think the ALP have more than one ace up their sleeve here. Just as the govt had a plan to immediately get the ball rolling with the by-election, Shorten will have some sticks of dynamite to throw in the next few weeks.

Meanwhile the rest of us suffer as the bills go one way and the pay goes another. All of a sudden NZ politics looks preferable.

**mtv** · 27-10-17, 10:01 PM

**Reschs** · 27-10-17, 10:39 PM

Originally Posted by mtv

Teething rings for Great Danes.

**Reschs** · 27-10-17, 10:44 PM

I am still at a loss how Barnaby has dual Citizenship.

I understand that his father was born in NZ and may request Citizenship.
How could be Automatic. Is he on the Electoral Role in NZ ? I don't think so.
Since when did NZ Law over ride Australian Law.

**DB44** · 28-10-17, 01:02 AM

Originally Posted by mkhannah

If labor can get it right, and the liberals can get it right, there's really no excuse for the other parties.

You're right that they deserved everything they got. The law is a good one. However, I think we may find in coming months that more politicians are caught out. Certainly the guy in WA who started it all thinks so. I'm not so sure that the Libs and Labor have got it right. What possible excuse does the Electoral Commission have for not conducting an audit? And why haven't all parties pushed for one? Most of those caught out, including the very disappointing Barnaby Joyce, were outed at the hands of the media.

There is an article in the Australian which is behind a paywall, so I won't link to it. A short quote:

While Mr Cameron said he was “invariably surprised” at how quickly the citizenship scandal had snowballed, he expects more politicians will fall foul of section 44 of the Australian constitution in coming months. “There will be others,” Mr Cameron told AAP, just hours after the Australian High Court disqualified Mr Joyce and four other MPs on Friday afternoon. “This opens up a huge can of worms,” he said from Perth.

Mr Cameron said that of the additional MPs he expected would lose their jobs, many of them would be British citizens.

John Cameron is a WA lawyer who originally went after Tony Abbott and Bill Shorten, before picking an easier initial target in Scott Ludlam.

**gordon_s1942** · 28-10-17, 12:03 PM

Originally Posted by Reschs

I am still at a loss how Barnaby has dual Citizenship.

I understand that his father was born in NZ and may request Citizenship.
How could be Automatic. Is he on the Electoral Role in NZ ? I don't think so.
Since when did NZ Law over ride Australian Law.

Neither NZ, the UK or any other Country's Laws over ride Australian Law but by passing Laws of their OWN to allow those born of THAT country to enable their Children to recognised as Citizens of that Country despite being born in another.

No Country can pass a Law to prevent another Country accepting applications for Citizenship as such but in this instance, it has been made easier for the child born in another Country to be accepted almost automatically.
I would not be surprised to see that Australia has exactly the same offer to any child of an Australian Citizen born in another Country to be eligible for an Australian Passport.

Much of these arrangements have come about where people have gone to another Country just to work and while there have had Children during their time there.

**lsemmens** · 28-10-17, 01:56 PM

Therein lies the problem. If you were born overseas, then you should be prepared to ensure your position was safe prior to standing for election. The likes of those who were born here, and have lived here all their lives, regardless of parentage, should be accepted as Australian citizens without all the BS that this case has generated. In many ways, it's easier to prove that you are a citizen of Australia if you were born overseas and then naturalised as an Australian than if you were born here. At least you have a bit of paper to say that you have renounced allegiance to the "other" country.

**gordon_s1942** · 28-10-17, 03:50 PM

Its only in recent years that some of the rules and application of them has changed.
My Mother was born in the UK of English/Scottish parents and came to Australia with her Parents and brother just after her 9th birthday in 1923.
Over the next 40 or so years she thought that by virtue of that she had lived here so long, paid Tax's etc that she was now an Australian Citizen but that was not so !!
She applied for and got 'Naturalized' as soon as she could arrange it.
I am wondering now if she found this out when she applied for a Passport to go on a Cruise that she was indeed a UK citizen...??

Although I was born here as was my Father and his Father I believe, because of My Mothers place of Birth (UK), I believe I am eligible for a UK Passport but have never bothered to apply for one.
As I have never renounced that option to apply for a UK Passport or Citizenship, I too must be regarded as having Dual Nationality even though every document filled out in my name in the last 75 years has proclaimed me as an Australian Citizen................

**trash** · 28-10-17, 04:47 PM

Isn't it fun when politics gets interesting.

The key mistake here was that the party in power asked a question without first knowing the answer.
They got caught out by their own attempt to pull the rug out from under the other members of parliament.

One might ask the question, if a member of Parliament has been found to have been ineligible and having served for a period of time, are they ineligible for their privileges of their office.
So while Barnaby has done work for the Australian government and he has been paid for that work, does he get to keep his prior parliamentary pension and benefits from his prior terms. Even if he gets re-elected, should they be start from scratch?

We all know it's a bit of a beat up, but that's politics. If you want to burn bridges, then you set fire to the person you least like who is about to cross it.

**Neddie** · 29-10-17, 02:57 AM

does he get to keep his prior parliamentary pension and benefits from his prior terms

Well if they are consistent he shouldn't be entitled to it - he was never validly elected. And if elected in the bi-election on Dec 2nd he should start on the new parliamentary pension scheme, which is a lot fairer as it's closer to the scheme the rest of us have, rather than the gold plated scheme politicians of old gave themselves at our expense.

**lsemmens** · 29-10-17, 08:55 AM

Another court challenge in the wings, methinks. The lawyers will be happy.

**alpha0ne** · 29-10-17, 03:00 PM

Originally Posted by Neddie

Well if they are consistent he shouldn't be entitled to it - he was never validly elected. And if elected in the bi-election on Dec 2nd he should start on the new parliamentary pension scheme, which is a lot fairer as it's closer to the scheme the rest of us have, rather than the gold plated scheme politicians of old gave themselves at our expense.

But I'll bet they will fight tooth and nail to keep the said benefits that they are not entitled to

Whats the bet they change the law to benefit themselves..............again

**mtv** · 29-10-17, 03:23 PM

One could even argue that if a person is not entitled to apply for and subsequently take office, any revenue and benefits accepted in the course of holding such a position may possibly be considered as obtaining financial advantage by deception, a criminal offence.

Ignorance is not accepted as defence for breaking the law.

I guarantee if a member of the public were to be paid money by the government for something they were not entitled to apply for, regardless of whether the recipient did so deliberately or not, they would be ordered to pay it all back.

**enf** · 29-10-17, 03:45 PM

I think thats covered somewhere...I thought we had this discussion a while back.

**Neddie** · 29-10-17, 08:14 PM

Originally Posted by alpha0ne

Whats the bet they change the law to benefit themselves

Better than even money I'd have thought.

Originally Posted by mtv

I guarantee if a member of the public were to be paid money by the government for something they were not entitled to apply for, regardless of whether the recipient did so deliberately or not, they would be ordered to pay it all back.

Yes for sure, but the pollies always look after themselves.

**lsemmens** · 29-10-17, 09:39 PM

It ain't only pollies that are guilty of this. How many blokes have been employed to do a job that they are not qualified to do? What happens when they are found out? They lose their jobs, and that is about it. In this case, we appear to be holding the pollies to a different standard than the rest of society. In their case, it wasn't that they were "inept" but that their "paperwork" was incorrect.