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Thread: Spinal Injections

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    Default Spinal Injections

    Just curious if anyone here has had a CT Guided Nerve Root injection and whether it was effective for you ? For more specifics see the link below (link is for neck, but it is the same procedure as on a back as well) :


    My problem is Foraminal Stenosis which is listed as severe on my MRI, which is that a disc has been ruptured several times and has shrunk, crushing the spinal nerve in between 2 vertabrae. See pic below :



    I am booked in at the Alfred Hospital on Tuesday to have it. This is the Alfred's first attempt at dealing with the problem, they said if the injection works to the point that 2-3 injections a year stops the pain they would consider that a cure. Any more than that, and I will require surgery.

    I have done a lot of reading, and without wanting to damn myself before it happens, most reading suggests it only last for about 2 months for most people. The Alfred stated that it varies between people and for some people it can last 6 months. I haven't found a lot of that happening and generally due to my size and weight (6'3 and 115kgs) most medications pull up short on the amount of time they are supposed to be effective. I suppose I am looking for a good story and someone to tell me it works great And perhaps you only hear the bad stories on the internet........its usually the way things go.

    While I don't particularly want surgery, things cant keep going the way they are and I would rather get it over and done with before I get much older. Surgery involves going in through my throat, removing the problem disc from the spine and replacing it with bone spurs ( or something else) which will fuse the vertebrae together. It is held together with a metal plate and screws. Such as in the image below :




Look Here ->
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    Had one about ten years ago for compressed/crushed vertebra that they told me they could not/would not operate on, plus massive soft tissue damage from torn muscles

    It made the pain and discomfort problem ~ 50 worse for the next 8 months

    I don't trust docs as far as I could throw them, even if my back wasn't rooted
    Last edited by alpha0ne; 28-10-17 at 08:38 PM.

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    I was to have one of these but a course of strong pain killers and ongoing anti-inflammatories has removed the need.

    My doctor told me that the effect would last about six months before another injection was needed, but I have since learned that my brother had such a treatment and relief lasted only two weeks.

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    What u describe is almost identical to me, mine is crushing the sciatic nerve . I have had two injections in my lower back about 5 years ago. The first one took 2 weeks before any noticable improvement in the pain relief but it did work and lasted about six months, the second one didnt seem to have much affect at all, but there was no added pain or extra problems from the procedure. I have avoided surgery so far which was recommended at the time but there was no guarantee that it would help, in fact with the plate insertion and fusion of two other vertebrae movement would be further restricted. My biggest problem at 55 years old odd at the time was the painkillers oxycontin in particular which I became addicted too and I had never taken any hard drugs before that.

    My chiropractor now deals with the flareup with massage and heat treatments as manipulation is out of the question.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alpha0ne View Post
    Had one about ten years ago for compressed/crushed vertebra that they told me they could not/would not operate on, plus massive soft tissue damage from torn muscles

    It made the pain and discomfort problem ~ 50 worse for the next 8 months

    I don't trust docs as far as I could throw them, even if my back wasn't rooted
    I don't trust the medical profession in general after almost dying from negligence about 15 years ago, so anything to do with my health I research as much as I can so I know as much as possible about what they are doing.

    Thats interesting that it made it worse, I haven't really come across someone that it made it worse.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neddie View Post
    I was to have one of these but a course of strong pain killers and ongoing anti-inflammatories has removed the need.

    My doctor told me that the effect would last about six months before another injection was needed, but I have since learned that my brother had such a treatment and relief lasted only two weeks.
    Thanks mate, thats interesting with your brother, 2 weeks, wow !

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    Quote Originally Posted by h8fg4 View Post
    What u describe is almost identical to me, mine is crushing the sciatic nerve . I have had two injections in my lower back about 5 years ago. The first one took 2 weeks before any noticable improvement in the pain relief but it did work and lasted about six months, the second one didnt seem to have much affect at all, but there was no added pain or extra problems from the procedure. I have avoided surgery so far which was recommended at the time but there was no guarantee that it would help, in fact with the plate insertion and fusion of two other vertebrae movement would be further restricted. My biggest problem at 55 years old odd at the time was the painkillers oxycontin in particular which I became addicted too and I had never taken any hard drugs before that.

    My chiropractor now deals with the flareup with massage and heat treatments as manipulation is out of the question.
    Thanks for the reply.

    Six months is pretty good, its interesting that the second didn't do anything. It looks like it really is a mixed bag with results on these injections. I'll just have to see what happens though I am not confident of getting 6 months.

    I understand what you are saying in regards to surgery, it is very serious surgery.

    I have done heavy manual labor all my life and had a serious workplace back injury in my 20's where I was off work for 18 months. I returned to work and over the last 20 years have damaged discs in my back numerous times. In 2010, after damaging even more, I was forced to cease work and ended up going on the disability pension mainly because I couldn't afford medication (about $300 a week) on just my wife's wage. I was on Oxycontin amongst other things in large doses for several years until I decided to cut down.

    To makes things worse, I woke up one day in May 2014 and knew immediately something was wrong with my neck. Since then its gone from bad to worse. Ironically, I have managed to finally get my back under control and am confident that I can manage it. But my neck just gets worse. Unfortunately its now at the point that its stopping me from doing a lot of things, its been a steady decline and how bad it has got in the last year is very worrying......I had MRI's one year apart for comparison.

    I look at fusion restriction in that I havent had that movement for over 3 years anyway, so if I lost that and was pain free I would be happy with that. I am also wondering if I should go back on private health and whether it might give me better options ? Realistically, the Public system would always fuse rather than do something like artificial disc replacement purely on cost.

    I wish there was an easy answer. But I will see how the injection goes and even if it goes to surgery, I have been told the waiting list is about 2 years. So that will be 5 and a half years since the problem started, if its not substantially improved by then I dont think it ever will be.

    I appreciate all the replies.

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    I cannot comment on the efficacy or not of said treatment. But, to make you feel better, I'll tell you that it's brilliant, (but I really don't know).

    Seriously, The idea of private health may be a good one, however, they may preclude pre-existing conditions, which this definitely seems to be, therefore you'd be better off saving your money. My experience of the public system has been nothing short of fantastic, however, I will qualify this. My wife is chronically ill and regularly requires hospitalisation however, her condition means high care cardiac ward. She also had cancer some years back which the specialist at the time said she was lucky to have been referred to the hospital she was (a rural one) as she'd have been on a looong waiting list in town. His initial thought, too, was that the tumour was benign so did not treat it with any great urgency. In the end they found it to be malignant and, had she been on a waiting list, the end result might well have been much worse.
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    Yea I think the neck would be more of a problem than the back.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lsemmens View Post
    I cannot comment on the efficacy or not of said treatment. But, to make you feel better, I'll tell you that it's brilliant, (but I really don't know).

    Seriously, The idea of private health may be a good one, however, they may preclude pre-existing conditions, which this definitely seems to be, therefore you'd be better off saving your money. My experience of the public system has been nothing short of fantastic, however, I will qualify this. My wife is chronically ill and regularly requires hospitalisation however, her condition means high care cardiac ward. She also had cancer some years back which the specialist at the time said she was lucky to have been referred to the hospital she was (a rural one) as she'd have been on a looong waiting list in town. His initial thought, too, was that the tumour was benign so did not treat it with any great urgency. In the end they found it to be malignant and, had she been on a waiting list, the end result might well have been much worse.
    Private Health, once the waiting period is served for pre existing conditions, would mean being operated on twice as fast as the public system. Thats a conservative estimate.......I was actually told up to 2.5 years on the Public waiting list.

    We had Private Health up until about 2-3 years ago when we were forced to give it up due to the cost. If I have surgery, I am looking at returning to the workforce, in which case we would be keeping Private Health due to how crap the public system is (every experience,and there are lots, over the last 15 years has been poor including one in which I almost lost my life due to negligence).

    The injections I get tomorrow are the same injections my Pain Specialist (from a Spinal Clinic) wont give me because I dont have Private Health insurance. I baulked at the $600 out of pocket expense I would have to pay to get him to do it because there are so many stories of this injection only being effective for a short time period. He was at least nice enough to contact the Alfred and ask that I get bumped up the list due to my arm going numb/pins and needles. My GP said I have done very well......I only had to wait 10 months to get in the door at the Alfred, he said most wait 2 years.

    It would seem (I am only generalising at this stage) that private options are far more extensive compared to the public system. In particular, it seems most cases that go to surgery under the public system result in fusion.....this realistically is the cheapest and easiest option. There is a major shortage of Neurosurgeons in Australia and realistically the pay is poor, so most want to do private work. Here is an example of some waiting times :



    At this link for example, they are listing multiple options in regards to Cervical Foraminal Stenosis :


    The problem with the Public system is that you don't really get a say in anything, you see someone different every time etc and realistically they are not a wealth of information. My last appointment would have taken less than 5 minutes if I didnt ask questions. Looking at my latest MRI, I now also have bone spurs contacting the spinal cord...another issue.

    It all really pushes me further to Private Health. I have had other surgery before and just paid for it, unfortunately this isn't one you can do that with unless you are reasonably wealthy.

    Not really a great collection of choices is it

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    As an added qualification to my statements above, We have been blessed in that many of the specialists (neuro, cardio, pain) all work privately but also within the public system and they also bulk bill some patients, us included. I think that may be a benefit of living in Souf Orz with a lower population base than the Eastern Seaboard.

    As an aside, wife had her first shunt put in at PAC in Sydney. We were living in Darwin at the time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lsemmens View Post
    I think that may be a benefit of living in Souf Orz with a lower population base than the Eastern Seaboard.
    I think your right. Many areas of Victoria (and no doubt NSW) are simply overloaded under the public system.

    As an example, my GP referred me to the Alfred rather than Monash because the waiting list wasn't as big

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    Well, yesterday was about as bad as it gets.

    Things went pear shaped in a big way. I went in a CT scanner where they identified where they were going to inject and marked the spot. They tied my left arm from my wrist to the end rail on the end of the machine bed and put a restraint across my body around the abdomen. I had a local anesthetic in the skin which stung a bit, they then put more local in to the deeper tissue. This was all administered in to the side of my neck rather than the back, basically 2 inchs or so under my left ear.

    I then had an injection of dye put in and finally a long thin needle in to my spine area. I started to worry a bit after the locals as I was feeling a bit average, but after the other 2 I realised I was in seriously deep shit. I struggled to breathe and got pins and needles/numbness from my neck all the way to my groin area. I had a seizure and stopped breathing, they immediately called a code blue emergency. My blood pressure went through the roof and when they plugged a vein it when of like a fountain covering 3 of the team of 10 in blood. And myself. It looked like a massacre.

    Fortunately I started breathing again but not too well with vomiting as well. I came good for about 3 minutes but it soon started again and I ended up getting raced up to the ED. I came good and went bad 3 times before it ended after about 30 minutes. A nurse said if it had gone much longer they would likely have put me on to life support.

    As you can guess, I am not dead, but went close to it. My wife read my medical chart (and got in to a huge fight with the head nurse who claims we have no legal right to read it) and as she works in aged care along side nurses is familiar with medical terms and knows what average ranges are for things. My blood pressure was dangerously high and my oxygen rate dangerously low. My ECG readout also shows I was almost flat lining at one stage....all up it did some seriously strange stuff to me and they dont know why.

    Today (I am home) I have had a blood test (had one yesterday as well) and an ECG test after a GP visit , and tomorrow am having an Echocardiogram on my heart. Next week I am having a MRI on my brain to rule out any damage from the seizure. The hospital provided a very sanitised version of events to my GP overnight. He is not impressed that they have given no reason for what happened or even tried to.

    Ironically, my neck is a lot better but needless to say I will never be having a spinal injection ever again in my life.

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    Default Spinal Injections

    Quote Originally Posted by admin View Post
    Well, yesterday was about as bad as it gets.

    Things went pear shaped in a big way. I went in a CT scanner where they identified where they were going to inject and marked the spot. They tied my left arm from my wrist to the end rail on the end of the machine bed and put a restraint across my body around the abdomen. I had a local anesthetic in the skin which stung a bit, they then put more local in to the deeper tissue. This was all administered in to the side of my neck rather than the back, basically 2 inchs or so under my left ear.

    I then had an injection of dye put in and finally a long thin needle in to my spine area. I started to worry a bit after the locals as I was feeling a bit average, but after the other 2 I realised I was in seriously deep shit. I struggled to breathe and got pins and needles/numbness from my neck all the way to my groin area. I had a seizure and stopped breathing, they immediately called a code blue emergency. My blood pressure went through the roof and when they plugged a vein it when of like a fountain covering 3 of the team of 10 in blood. And myself. It looked like a massacre.

    Fortunately I started breathing again but not too well with vomiting as well. I came good for about 3 minutes but it soon started again and I ended up getting raced up to the ED. I came good and went bad 3 times before it ended after about 30 minutes. A nurse said if it had gone much longer they would likely have put me on to life support.

    As you can guess, I am not dead, but went close to it. My wife read my medical chart (and got in to a huge fight with the head nurse who claims we have no legal right to read it) and as she works in aged care along side nurses is familiar with medical terms and knows what average ranges are for things. My blood pressure was dangerously high and my oxygen rate dangerously low. My ECG readout also shows I was almost flat lining at one stage....all up it did some seriously strange stuff to me and they dont know why.

    Today (I am home) I have had a blood test (had one yesterday as well) and an ECG test after a GP visit , and tomorrow am having an Echocardiogram on my heart. Next week I am having a MRI on my brain to rule out any damage from the seizure. The hospital provided a very sanitised version of events to my GP overnight. He is not impressed that they have given no reason for what happened or even tried to.

    Ironically, my neck is a lot better but needless to say I will never be having a spinal injection ever again in my life.
    Mate that sounds terrible, wish you a speedy recovery.
    Last edited by Au_radio; 01-11-17 at 02:46 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by admin View Post

    I then had an injection of dye put in and finally a long thin needle in to my spine area. I started to worry a bit after the locals as I was feeling a bit average, but after the other 2 I realised I was in seriously deep shit. I struggled to breathe and got pins and needles/numbness from my neck all the way to my groin area. I had a seizure and stopped breathing, they immediately called a code blue emergency. My blood pressure went through the roof and when they plugged a vein it when of like a fountain covering 3 of the team of 10 in blood. And myself. It looked like a massacre.
    Glad your still with us admin, maybe time to buy a few extra lotto tickets along with a bottle of bourbon for the wife, you should be ashamed of yourself for putting her thru such a worrying ordeal

    I had a dye injection for an MRI over 30 years ago for a shattered shoulder/ cracked ribs/massive soft tissue damage which had a very adverse affect on me, black out, nausea, couldn't stand up for ~ half an hour, blood pressure thru the roof, but luckily nowhere near as bad as the outcome you have suffered

    I have no idea (and I bet the vets don't have one either) if its the dye or whatever else that might have contributed to the reaction you suffered but I will never have another MRI that necessitates a dye injection again

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    May as well give us another chapter from the diary as youve got nothing better to do.......

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    Holy shit Admin...what a nightmare.
    Sounds like you had a severe reaction to the dye they injected that is used to guide the second needle (probably cortisone) to the correct place.

    I've had dye reactions before (not nearly as severe as yours) years ago when they injected it into my vein to check out my kidneys...never again!

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    Quote Originally Posted by hoe View Post
    May as well give us another chapter from the diary as youve got nothing better to do.......
    Yes thank you for your sympathy, I will be at it again tomorrow as promised

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    Quote Originally Posted by mandc View Post
    Holy shit Admin...what a nightmare.
    Sounds like you had a severe reaction to the dye they injected that is used to guide the second needle (probably cortisone) to the correct place.

    I've had dye reactions before (not nearly as severe as yours) years ago when they injected it into my vein to check out my kidneys...never again!
    Thats what my GP wants to find out, it has to be either the dye, cortisone or anesthetic. I dont want to be having whichever one it was ever again.

    The only time I have ever felt quite like that was when they gave me Tramadol in hospital and had a severe allergic reaction. Luckily a mate was visiting when they gave it to me and saw I was in big trouble and alerted them. I scored another code blue on that one and my mate said they came running in and belted a big needle in my chest and I came good

    Prior to that, I have also almost died of blood loss.........as you can imagine I am starting to worry that next time will be the last time.

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