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Thread: Help with Hills R128 Reliance feature

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    Default Help with Hills R128 Reliance feature

    Hoping an installer here can clarify a feature of the R128 panel and additional NX-170 swipe card reader that is currently being installed this week at our new premises.

    Our previous building (Tecom Titan system) had logic to have one electronic lock open on a schedule (M-F 8AM-4PM) but only when building was disarmed. This nicely took care of holidays and the odd time we left before 4PM.

    Unfortunately the installer says this isn't possible with the Hills R128 and swipe reader. A schedule is possible but it can't use the alarm state so if we leave early, we can arm the building but front door stays open until 4PM.

    I've got a copy of the installer manual and Features 27-34 looks exactly what I need; AND/OR logic with Events and open/close times to signal the door lock open.

    I gave the docs to my installer who spoke to Hills and they have said this isn't possible.

    The installer gave me the Hills tech support number if I wanted to clarify and I've left a call back number.

    Could anyone with Reliance experience explain why what I'm after can't be done?

    Thanks



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    Hills Tech support this morning confirmed it can be done, they won't detail as I'm an end-user but all good, I've asked my installer to call them back.

    Features 28-31 look exactly like what was needed so surprised there was doubt but all ended well.

    *Edit* - Well spoke too soon...Hills just called me back and said maybe not so easy after all, they need to speak to installer.

    I thought this would be a standard door strike setup but I guess not?
    Last edited by Clacker; 07-11-17 at 11:32 AM.

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    So verdict back is it can't be done but I can't findo out why.

    Can anyone suggest why an electronic door strike on Aux Output 4 (Ref31 Event A -disarmed, Event B -open period, logic AND,time(0)) can't be activated based on Open/Close hours (Ref33/34) and Open days (Ref 35)?

    It looks to do exactly what I want but Hills have said no.

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    It may well be that the Time zone has preference.
    Bare in mind this is primarily an intrusion panel with a bit of simple access attached.

    You can use the reader to disarm and have the door stay unlocked while the area is unset.
    You would need to arm via keypad and the door would follow.

    no schedules
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poody View Post
    It may well be that the Time zone has preference.
    Bare in mind this is primarily an intrusion panel with a bit of simple access attached.
    Yeah the installer said the same, more of a intrusion system than Tecom-like access control.

    The timezone you mention, is that the open/autodisarm close/autoarm feature times or another one related to the reader?

    The Aux Output feature logic indicates that the open period can be used as part of an AND condition.

    I suggested that the schedule for the reader could be removed (so the door is just momentary latch) and the aux output could control the door strike.

    Thanks for the reply

    Edit: I see the NX-1701 does have its own schedule. So I'm still at a loss why I can't use the aux output instead.
    Last edited by Clacker; 09-11-17 at 10:16 AM.

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    There are probably many ways to make it work, however when making a panel do something it is not designed too, it may cause issues later one, when another tech needs to work on the panel.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xr5adam View Post
    There are probably many ways to make it work, however when making a panel do something it is not designed too, it may cause issues later one, when another tech needs to work on the panel.
    The panel has the outputs and the logic is part of the feature set.. I don't think the application is beyond the scope of the panel design.

    What would a more common example be for the outputs considering there are over 50 events?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Poody View Post
    You can use the reader to disarm and have the door stay unlocked while the area is unset.
    You would need to arm via keypad and the door would follow.

    no schedules
    That is what we have now but having stores coming in early and front door open while office is empty (possible solution multiple areas - not ideal) and cleaners after hours and weekends with door open still not an ideal security solution.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clacker View Post
    That is what we have now but having stores coming in early and front door open while office is empty (possible solution multiple areas - not ideal) and cleaners after hours and weekends with door open still not an ideal security solution.
    Still dealing with this 4 weeks later. Installer said probably need to pay the $4K or so to upgrade to Tecom.
    To be fair, they spent a lot of time on this trying to get it working.

    I asked for the installer code which they gave me and 2 hours later after testing Jumper J7 with a multimeter and changing the features from Aux Output and car reader, it's all working fine.

    So for anyone else, the aux outputs on the Reliance are pretty flexible with the AND/OR logic and 50+ events.. may just need to guide your installer as everyone seems to just say "Tecom" when you talk access control.

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    I would still agree with both the installer and the wholesaler, (maybe not a Tecom as the replacement) while it may work with a multimeter.

    What is the total power you are drawing from your system without the lock. If it is like most R128 installs I see with expanders, multiple keypads and a DTU with only one battery, at least get a secondary monitored power supply.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xr5adam View Post
    What is the total power you are drawing from your system without the lock. If it is like most R128 installs I see with expanders, multiple keypads and a DTU with only one battery, at least get a secondary monitored power supply.
    No idea but it does have two power supplies (which I suspect caused the aux output wiring grief in the first place) and was quoted and sized with the door strikes and locks - the system supports up to 4 card readers so not going out of spec.

    All I've added is a low trigger relay (due to the use of two power supplies..door lock is powered by 2nd PS while Aux is powered by panel PS) which draws like 10ma - well under total current limits.


    Quote Originally Posted by xr5adam View Post
    I would still agree with both the installer and the wholesaler, (maybe not a Tecom as the replacement) while it may work with a multimeter.
    The system uses relays for the each door strike so what's one more? Interested to know your reason on why; the panel comes with 2 spare outputs that perfectly matches my requirement.. Why change to a presumably more expensive panel?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clacker View Post
    No idea but it does have two power supplies (which I suspect caused the aux output wiring grief in the first place) and was quoted and sized with the door strikes and locks - the system supports up to 4 card readers so not going out of spec.

    All I've added is a low trigger relay (due to the use of two power supplies..door lock is powered by 2nd PS while Aux is powered by panel PS) which draws like 10ma - well under total current limits.




    The system uses relays for the each door strike so what's one more? Interested to know your reason on why; the panel comes with 2 spare outputs that perfectly matches my requirement.. Why change to a presumably more expensive panel?
    Having two power supplies does not mean that there is the correct power supply module inside the panel.

    What is the panel powering, how many keypads, comms equipment, sensors, sirens etc.

    The outputs while are spare still need to be considered for total power draw.

    I am just saying that if the wholesaler says it can not be done and you make it work, what happens down the track when another technician does work and you are not around to explain your wiring? At least with a panel that has access control features and correct power supply modules, the technician will be able to work it out in a timely manner.

    We recently took over a site that had 4 doors, 4 readers, 4 locks, 1 keypad, 1 DTU, 24 zones, all powered off 2 batteries with an add on power module that was not reporting AC fail, with all this equipment and only two batteries the system failed pretty quickly when relying on batteries.

    Another client decides that he knows better than both tech support and an installer and uses a UPS on his alarm, no ac fail reports, low battery only and the system is offline over the weekend.

    I am just saying sometimes it is better to do things the way it was designed to be done.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xr5adam View Post
    Having two power supplies does not mean that there is the correct power supply module inside the panel.
    Fair enough, but that would come down to the installer then based on our requirements. If one more relay affects things then there is a larger problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by xr5adam View Post
    I am just saying that if the wholesaler says it can not be done and you make it work, what happens down the track when another technician does work and you are not around to explain your wiring? At least with a panel that has access control features and correct power supply modules, the technician will be able to work it out in a timely manner.
    Well the answer changed depending on who you talked to but they said it was possible. I'd agree with you if I thought this was some sort of hack but why give an extra 2 aux outputs and 50+ events with AND/OR logic if all installers used them for were things like strobes and sirens? If the features are there they must be for a reason.

    Quote Originally Posted by xr5adam View Post
    I am just saying sometimes it is better to do things the way it was designed to be done.
    Well this is my issue. The panel is clearly designed with flexibility in mind.

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    I wrote a reply on Saturday that said awaiting mod review so not sure what happening there...

    Just want to clarify that my asking for the schedule made no difference to the hardware quoted so any power issues would lay at the installer not me. Not that I think there is an issue with their choice. One extra relay is all that it took.


    Quote Originally Posted by xr5adam View Post
    I am just saying sometimes it is better to do things the way it was designed to be done.
    Agreed, but in this case as this panel has 2 spare auxiliary outputs with 50+ events, how is this outside of design?
    Last edited by Clacker; 11-12-17 at 11:48 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clacker View Post
    I wrote a reply on Saturday that said awaiting mod review so not sure what happening there...
    Looks like the auto anti-spam system picked up something it thought might be questionable.

    The system usually works quite well, but occasionally it get's it wrong.

    I've cleared the moderated post, which is #13.

    Sorry for the delay.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mtv View Post

    I've cleared the moderated post, which is #13.

    Sorry for the delay.
    All good and thank you.

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