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Thread: "Anti-Fa" in Melbourne ?

  1. #21
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    I cant see anything positive this person does....
    Just an arrogant little upstart.

    Police should ban his events on the principle of Inciting a Riot
    Then again, there goes the G20 summits

    The media outlets that keep speaking to him are just as much to blame

    If he has a point he wishes to make, get into Politics and run.
    Last edited by ol' boy; 08-12-17 at 11:34 AM.
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    I believe that we have to cling to the last vestiges of free speech while we can, so f*ck the government.

    If the media fall for his hype, so what?

    Or are you suggesting that we just allow the mob to dictate who can speak and who can't because they decide to riot?
    The fact that there's a highway to hell and a stairway to heaven says a lot about the anticipated traffic flow.

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    Safe to say if Milo has another speaking event in Oz, NO police will attend ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by oceanboy View Post
    Police should ban his events on the principle of Inciting a Riot
    So a paid speaker (doesn't matter who the f*ck he/she is) @ a legal event, with many tickets sold should be banned because of a bunch of leftist arseholes (many paid I would wager) dont like his views, and the ppl who actually paid to see this speaker should also have their so called 'rights' (as if anyone in AU has any, unless they are rich/mates with ppl in power) violated ??

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    I came across this. He doesn't sound too stupid, to me. I may not necessarily agree with some of his views, but, at least he knows his topic.
    I'm out of my mind, but feel free to leave a message...

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    Quote Originally Posted by enf View Post
    Yeah...I get that. What I'm asking is if it is applied uniformly.... I'll bet it's not.
    Thats exactly the point.

    And of course the irony of someone embarking in free speech and getting the bill for protesters that attacked police.

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    I find it amazing that we have spent a couple of hundred years fighting, living and dying for the principle of “I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it”, but in the lazy arse world we now live in people are more content to lose more and more rights everyday and throw their hands in the air and say "Oh it doesn't concern me". I am regularly ashamed to be an Australian due to the "I'm ok , couldnt give a #### about you" mentality that has developed here in recent decades.

    In the US, which actually has free speech unlike us, he didnt even get to speak because leftist university nuts trashed the university and did $100,000 damage before it even happened.
    There was an excellent article in The Australian today by Chip Le Grand. It is paywalled, but I will post it for you. I would encourage you to read it, its a far more intelligent look at the true situation rather than the world according to news.com.au









    Antifa Australia goes for the jugular


    Protesters clash outside Milo Yiannopoulos sold out show at the Melbourne Pavilion in Melbourne on December 4. Picture: AAP


    The first rule of antifa is you do not talk about antifa. Not to a journalist, at any rate. It is less an organisation than a broad objective across the radical left; a determination to block, frustrate and ultimately silence far-right politics. It is fundamentally illiberal and necessarily secretive. For these reasons, it is poorly understood and readily mischaracterised.

    Antifa activists are not mindless thugs. They are well organised and, generally, experienced political and social activists who are prepared to resort to violence — they say reluctantly — to deny the far right any platform from which to promote its ideas. In Melbourne and Sydney this week, they mobilised more than 100 supporters within an hour to shout down a speaking event by the alt-right’s charismatic bomb thrower, Milo Yiannopoulos.

    Yiannopoulos was not stopped from having his say but the fact he was unwilling to publicise the locations of his shows in advance is being celebrated as a victory of sorts across Australia’s anti-fascist network. The morning after anti-fascist activists and right-wing “patriots” traded blows on the streets of Kensington and police were pelted with rocks, the group that organised the Melbourne protest, the Campaign Against Racism and Fascism, heralded it as a success.

    The following night, seven people were arrested in Sydney when protesters tried to disrupt a Yiannopoulos speaking event in the inner-west suburb of Lilyfield. Speaking to Inquirer shortly before the protest, organiser Omar Hassan explained that although he was not looking for a fight, he was ready for one.


    “Primarily, the way the far right can be beaten is not through individual acts of violence but collective empowerment and the building of mass movements,” he said. “These mass movements have to do what is required to stand their ground and challenge bigotry. Sometimes that involves a physical altercation, but that is not of our choosing, that is just something we are prepared to do.

    “We know from history that when the far right organises, the violence that is inflicted on communities is much more severe than anything we have seen at any of these protests.”

    Tess Dimos, a spokeswoman for the Campaign against Racism and Fascism, argues that when you’re confronting white nationalists on the streets, violence is part of the gig. “They are not the kind of people you can stand quietly next to and have some kind of vigil,” she says. “These people go to these demonstrations intending to pursue violent acts. We do whatever we can to try to keep everyone safe and together.”

    The antifa view of the world is that far-right politics — particularly white supremacy, nationalist chauvinism and the kind of fascism that tore Europe apart in the middle of the 20th century — is again on the rise across Western democracies.

    In the US, this conviction has made bedfellows of anarchists, Marxists, socialists, anti-racists and other militant activists beneath the antifa doona. In Australia, existing left-wing groups such as Socialist Alternative have diverted resources from other campaigns to fight what they describe as the fascist menace. New groups, such as Jews Against Fascism, have formed to fight the far right.

    The start of this counterculture war can be traced to the Easter weekend two years ago when a large Reclaim Australia rally took over Melbourne’s Federation Square. Hassan is a 31-year-old bartender and events manager. He is also an active member of Socialist Alternative who contributes regularly to its online publication, Red Flag. “The size and breadth of that mobilisation of the far right shook many of us up,” he says. “Nationally, we decided to prioritise anti-fascist organising.”

    The same event prompted Jordana Silverstein, a University of Melbourne academic, to form Jews Against Fascism. “We fundamentally disagree that if you ignore fascists they will go away,” she tells Inquirer. “They don’t. They become emboldened.”


    Antifa activists face a Make Victoria Safe Again rally in Melbourne in September. Picture: Stuart McEvoy

    Asked when violence is acceptable, Silverstein’s response is instructive: “We don’t have a strict line on that. My grandparents were in concentration camps and ghettos from 1939 to 1945. The focus needs to be on the violence that fascism perpetrates and the racist violence that the state #perpetrates against marginalised groups. That is the more pertinent question for the media to be dealing with it.”

    The antifa armoury includes more than protest chants and punches. Mark Bray, formerly an activist in the Occupy Wall Street movement, is the author of Antifa: The Anti-Fascist Handbook, published in Australia by Melbourne University Press. In interviews with anti-fascist activists in Europe and the US, Bray explores antifa tactics including the dark art of doxxing, a form of online sabotage pioneered by computer hackers.

    In the antifa context, doxxing means the outing of Nazi sympathisers — the publication of #information that identifies anonymous far-right bloggers or activists, which in turn puts pressure on employers to sack them. This year a University of Nebraska philosophy student, Cooper Ward, was doxxed and unmasked as the voice on an anti-Semitic podcast, The Daily Shoah. Bray says he was driven off campus and into hiding.

    “Despite the media portrayal of a deranged, bloodthirsty antifa … the vast majority of anti-fascist tactics involve no physical violence whatsoever,” Bray writes.
    “Anti-fascists conduct research on the far right online, in person and sometimes through infiltration; they dox them, push cultural milieux to disown them, pressure bosses to fire them and demand that venues cancel their shows, conferences and meetings; they organise educational events, reading groups, trainings, athletic tournaments and fundraisers; they write articles, leaflets and newspapers, drop banners, and make videos … But it is also true that some of them punch Nazis in the face and don’t apologise for it.”

    The antifa doctrine on violence, justified loosely as a form of first-strike, preventive defence, is summed up for Bray in this billboard quote from Murray, an Anti-Racist Action member in Baltimore: “You fight them by writing letters and making phone calls so you don’t have to fight them with fists. You fight them with fists so you don’t have to fight them with knives. You fight them with knives so you don’t have to fight them with guns. You fight them with guns so you don’t have to fight them with tanks.”

    The contention here is that antifa resorts to violence only when earlier tactics fail to achieve its aims. If this were true, and if antifa were fighting only Nazis, many people wouldn’t have a problem with the occasional push turning to shove. There is a reason we laugh during The Blues Brothers when Elwood guns his Dodge Monaco across a bridge and forces a hapless band of Illinois Nazis to leap into the river. There is a reason the blood-spattered scenes in Quentin Tarantino’s Inglourious Basterds seem a little less gratuitous when it is a Nazi skull meeting a baseball bat. There is a reason footage of American white supremacist Richard Spencer getting punched in the face on the day of Donald Trump’s inauguration went viral. After all, they’re Nazis.

    A problem for the Australian antifa, and indeed for anti-fascist groups in Europe and the US, is that few people and organisations they oppose here have much to do with Nazism. Consider the rollcall of hard-right leaders who turned out in Kensington in support of Yian#nopoulos. Neil Erikson, a far-right agitator and leader of a small group known as Patriot Blue, used to be a Nazi but in recent years has publicly disavowed his former beliefs and now says he is a supporter of Israel.

    Blair Cottrell, the hulking former leader of the defunct United Patriots Front, is fascinated by Adolf Hitler as a historical figure but ridicules neo-Nazism as a contemporary political movement.

    Avi Yemini, a tough-on-crime activist, is a former Israeli soldier. He recently joined Cory Bernardi’s Australian Conservatives and hopes to stand as a candidate in next year’s Victorian election.


    A man wearing a shirt with swastikas is punched near the site of a planned speech by Richard Spencer at the University of Florida campus in October. Picture: Getty Images

    As for Yiannopoulos, although some of his supporters are Nazi sympathisers — Inquirer was sent a picture of a man giving a Nazi salute as he walked out of his Kensington speaking engagement — there is scant evidence that he is.

    When Yiannopoulos was preparing a treatise on the alt-right for the Breitbart website early last year, he sought the input of a white nationalist blogger and self-described Nazi, Andrew Auernheimer, and forwarded it along with contributions from other hard-right figures to his co-author, a Breitbart staff journalist. When the Buzzfeed news site obtained emails exchanged between Auernheimer and Yiannopoulos, it reported them as proof that “Breitbart and Milo smuggled Nazi and white nationalist ideas into the mainstream.”

    There was no smuggling involved, Nazi or otherwise; Yiannopoulos’s treatise was a rambling cook’s tour of right-wing groups, with Auernheimer quoted as an on-the-record source.

    Yiannopoulos’s presence here was bound to provoke antifa. The term has been in use in Europe since the 1980s but it first pierced the American public consciousness last February when black-clad violent demonstrators trashed the University of California’s Berkeley campus and forced the cancellation of a Yiannopoulos show. The demonstration, which caused $US100,000 worth of damage, was a tactical success but, arguably, a strategic failure.

    Since Berkeley, Yiannopoulos has found it difficult to find venues in the US willing to host his show. He quit Breitbart after a video emerged of him appearing to condone sex between men and 13-year-old boys. His supporters say his star is rising. His opponents argue he is already flaming out.

    The fallout for antifa has been mixed. Speaking to Inquirer from New York, Bray says the movement is stronger and better organised than it was a year ago. “The spectacle of Berkeley and the precedent it set emboldened a lot of anti-racists and anti-fascists,’’ he says. “It was a call to arms for the movement.’’

    Berkeley also set in train a series of events that last week culminated in FBI director Christopher Wray announcing that antifa activists were the subject of a counter-terrorism investigation. Wray told the US House of Representatives homeland security committee: “While we are not investigating antifa as antifa — that’s an ideology and we don’t investigate ideologies — we are investigating a number of what we would call anarchist-extremist … people who are motivated to commit violent criminal activity on a kind of antifa ideology.’’

    Now that Yiannopoulos’s tour has ended, antifa in Australia will readjust its sights to homegrown targets. Hassan makes clear this will not be limited to the extreme right: “It is about building an anti-racist movement with the confidence to challenge bigotry in all its forms,” he says. “That includes taking on the far right but it also includes the establishment right as well: Cory Bernardi, George Christensen, Tony Abbott, Malcolm Turnbull.”

    The risk here is that, in the absence of genuine Nazis to punch, antifa will employ its tactics against people who hold legitimate conservative political views.

    Bray, who introduces his book as a “unashamedly partisan call to arms”, defends militant anti-fascism as a “reasonable, historically informed response to the fascist threat”. If that threat in Australia is more perceived that real, where does that leave antifa?

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  • #28
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    ^ thanks admin for the read, but am I right in personally concluding that the antia agenda is no different than the brown shirted youth who terrorized anyone different before WW2 ??

    Their argument also smells like nothing more than controlling/indoctrinating stupid ppl who consider themselves morally superior due to their own inferiority ??

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    Don't care where he talks, or what he says. He's a dirty f@#$ing paedophile apologist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Onefella View Post
    Don't care where he talks, or what he says. He's a dirty f@#$ing paedophile apologist.
    THAT may be true, I dunno.....but, he should be allowed to speak free of violence by the mob...You should have no difficulty defeating him publicly and exposing him.

    So you also think the same of muslim imams and spokesmen? They advocate forced marriage to children which is illegal. They advocate relegating women to a subservient role. They vehemently oppose SSM and homosexuality in general. They advocate violent mobs in "days of rage".
    The fact that there's a highway to hell and a stairway to heaven says a lot about the anticipated traffic flow.

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  • #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by enf View Post
    THAT may be true, I dunno.....but,
    See post

    Quote Originally Posted by enf View Post
    So you also think the same of muslim imams and spokesmen?
    If they advocate sex with children. Then yes, absolutely.

    Would I protest to stop them speaking publicly? No, absolutely not. But it doesn't mean I have to like what they say, and it also doesn't mean I won't express MY right to "free" speech, to let everyone know what arseholes I think these people are.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Onefella View Post
    ..........................
    Would I protest to stop them speaking publicly? No, absolutely not. But it doesn't mean I have to like what they say, and it also doesn't mean I won't express MY right to "free" speech, to let everyone know what arseholes I think these people are.
    Yes, you should be free to protest. But that doesn't give you the right to emulate nazi brown shirts with no consequence. The only difference between these lawless thugs and brown shirts is they don't run around proudly in trucks.

    They cower behind masks and hoodies, and if allowed by this society to flourish, will just become worse until they start bashing and killing people that they don't agree with.
    The fact that there's a highway to hell and a stairway to heaven says a lot about the anticipated traffic flow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Onefella View Post
    Don't care where he talks, or what he says. He's a dirty f@#$ing paedophile apologist.
    And getting the exact reaction from he is trying to get (you do realises you contradict yourself from one sentence to the other ? You dont care, then your are screaming and cursing). Hell, I might start a speaking tour myself if its that easy to get bites.

    Chuck out some bait, 80% of the population ignores it, 20% goes ballistic and provides all the publicity needed for a tour, then 10% of the 80% come to see my show and make me money. It reminds me of Austech in the early 2000's

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    Quote Originally Posted by alpha0ne View Post
    ^ thanks admin for the read, but am I right in personally concluding that the antia agenda is no different than the brown shirted youth who terrorized anyone different before WW2 ??
    For sure.

    Ironically, they claim they are "anti nazi" and "anti fascist", yet they assault anyone who doesn't agree with their leftist agenda.

    Mr Milo they don't like, because he is everything they love (from a minority, gay, married to a black man) but he doesnt like political correctness, feminists or any of the other bullshit that the majority are sick to death of.

    Unlike everyone else who is too scared to speak out for fear of being bashed, abused, losing their job etc, the more they complain about his comments, the more insulting comments he makes.


    Lets just take a look at what they are actually claiming. A couple of definitions, just grabbed from Wikipedia, but I doubt anyone would have a problem with the definitions. I can go grab them from an encyclopedia, same result :

    Fascism is a form of radical authoritarian nationalism, characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition and control of industry and commerce that came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe.

    Nazism subscribed to theories of racial hierarchy and Social Darwinism, identifying the Germans as a part of what the Nazis regarded as an Aryan or Nordic master race.


    So they are against the above, particularly Fascism. Take a look at the definition of it above. If it wasnt so serious you would laugh. What they claim to oppose, they actually practice.

    radical authoritarian nationalism - Yes. They are practicing their own laws and authority and forcing it on others.

    characterized by dictatorial power - Yes. If they cant stop you speaking, they are happy to bash you.

    forcible suppression of opposition - Yes. As above. They will suppress you in anyway they can from free speech including violent assault.

    control of industry and commerce - Yes. Anyone notice they are all down at the docks at the moment assisting the blockade of goods Including medical) assisting the CFMEU and MUA ? The Union says its a "community" blockade.

    As to Nazi's, seriously, how many Nazi's are actually in Australia ? 12 ? I mean these people are running around spitting in the faces of people who don't agree with Gay Marriage and calling them Nazi's. At every single rally they have (and they near have one a day) whatever the topic is, if you don't agree with it, you are either a fascist or a nazi and as far as they are concerned you are a legit target to bash because you dont agree with them.

    Disclaimer : Was formerly one of them before changing sides in the early 2000's.

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    Quote Originally Posted by admin View Post
    radical authoritarian nationalism - Yes. They are practicing their own laws and authority and forcing it on others.

    characterized by dictatorial power - Yes. If they cant stop you speaking, they are happy to bash you.

    forcible suppression of opposition - Yes. As above. They will suppress you in anyway they can from free speech including violent assault.

    control of industry and commerce - Yes. Anyone notice they are all down at the docks at the moment assisting the blockade of goods Including medical) assisting the CFMEU and MUA ? The Union says its a "community" blockade.
    Well said.........................but hope atifa dont stumble across your post, that would qualify you for a good old fashion flogging

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    Quote Originally Posted by admin View Post
    you do realises you contradict yourself from one sentence to the other ? You dont care, then your are screaming and cursing
    Alright, put it this way. I really didn't care about him one way or another, until when I saw him expressing the view that adults should be able to have sex with children. Then, you're right, I suppose I did care. Not enough to want to stop him expressing his abhorrent views though. I'm not sure what it would take to push me over that line.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alpha0ne View Post
    Well said.........................but hope atifa dont stumble across your post, that would qualify you for a good old fashion flogging
    For sure.

    And again in relation to free speech, Austech has been hosted on a server in the US for its entire life for a reason.

    Australia does not have free speech, and never has. Its not written in to our constitution, unlike the US which guarantees it.

    If Austech was hosted in Australia, we would have been shut down long ago just based on general chat discussion. All it would take is a complaint under our draconian 18c laws and the plug would get pulled.


    Austech lost 75% of its income about 3 years ago when I wouldnt implement a level of censorship on Austech members at the request of Google that was ridiculous and as such we lost all our advertising revenue rendering the site basically worthless by doing so. Thats why we now have to rely 100% on the generosity of members via Premium Membership.

    Of course they could threaten our web hosts. But they have bigger fish to fry, they still haven't managed to take down and its been running for 21 years according to Wikipedia.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Onefella View Post
    Alright, put it this way. I really didn't care about him one way or another, until when I saw him expressing the view that adults should be able to have sex with children. Then, you're right, I suppose I did care. Not enough to want to stop him expressing his abhorrent views though. I'm not sure what it would take to push me over that line.
    This link is to what Milo has to say about the matter.


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