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Thread: NESS or Bosch for DIY home alarms ?

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    Default NESS or Bosch for DIY home alarms ?

    Although I've read (quickly) through the installation manuals for these alarm systems it is not obvious which may be easier for DIY.
    Any recommendations from people here or any other tips for a DIY system ?



Look Here ->
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    Not use about the other states, you’ll have to be licensed to install an alarm or CCTV system in WA.

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    Licenced? I've seen mention of this before but no one has ever produced any facts.
    Would you be able to give me a link to some WA legislation that will clarify it for me?
    I suspect it is just people with vested interests trying to con the rest of us into paying them a heap of money because they are "licenced" when in fact there is no such requirement.

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    Gregg - are you doing this for yourself or is someone paying you to install a security system for them?

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    Only doing it for my own house. Certainly no desire to do it anywhere else. (It's a mighty PITA as it is !)

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    So you don't need a security license but the cabling needs to be done by a registered cabler.

    If my interpretation is correct.

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    In Australia, you dont need an electrician, security installer or registered cabler to plug in a 12 volt transformer that goes to a box which makes a light on your house flash. and I am not talking about christmas lights.

    btw bosch 3000 but all a pain in the ass

    Quote Originally Posted by gregg View Post
    I suspect it is just people with vested interests trying to con the rest of us into paying them a heap of money because they are "licenced" when in fact there is no such requirement.


    correct
    Last edited by motion; 13-12-17 at 08:04 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xr5adam View Post
    So you don't need a security license but the cabling needs to be done by a registered cabler.

    If my interpretation is correct.
    You're correct.

    Any 'fixed' cabling is required to be installed by a licensed cabler.

    The definition of 'fixed' is any concealed cabling in walls, ceilings, under floors, even if it just goes through a wall, it's considered concealed.

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    Thanks for the feedback people.
    Any suggested/recommended online suppliers of Ness gear?
    (I recently found "smartTEKsecurity.com.au but they are unresponsive when I emailed an enquiry).

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    Well it looks like Ness are a dead loss. Don't answer their 'phones, don't return calls and messages left with their own reception staff, and don't properly respond to email enquiries so I definitely will not be using their gear. Still have no response from SmartTEKsecurity so I guess they are just scammers.
    In one brief email I did get from Ness, they said they don't support DIY and won't warrant their product unless it is purchased through one of their (over priced and over rated) installers. What jerks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gregg View Post
    Well it looks like Ness are a dead loss. Don't answer their 'phones, don't return calls and messages left with their own reception staff, and don't properly respond to email enquiries so I definitely will not be using their gear. Still have no response from SmartTEKsecurity so I guess they are just scammers.
    In one brief email I did get from Ness, they said they don't support DIY and won't warrant their product unless it is purchased through one of their (over priced and over rated) installers. What jerks.
    You will find alot if not all wholesalers will only sell to licensed installers. On the times I have needed to call Ness Tech support, these guys have been helpful and had no issues with them at all, however I do not call them often so my calls to tech support are few and far between.

    If you want DIY, try a DIY shop, Altronics. These guys sell Ness gear.

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    DIY or not, it is reasonable to expect the manufacturer to warrant their product. If I DIY then subsequently make a warranty claim they can assess it. If they find the product is faulty because of my incompetence and so won't process it as a warranty then that's perfectly acceptable.
    I'm aware that Altronics and others sell Ness products but if Ness won't honour a warranty claim made through one of these sellers then it is no point in buying it. Perhaps a seller like Altronics may provide their own warranty but I'm sure that only means they rely on a Ness warranty in reality.
    (I've not asked Altronics mind you.)
    Warranty aside, Ness fail miserably on the other issues I mentioned.
    Last edited by gregg; 19-12-17 at 12:26 AM.

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    You may find that, like many companies, the warranty conditions Ness apply are likely to be that they expect their equipment to be supplied and installed by appropriately licensed technicians who are trained and experienced with their products and rely upon their knowledge and experience as professional installers, being far less likely to to make mistakes and damage the equipment, as DIY'ers comparatively do.

    They are likely protecting the company image as well.... reducing instances of product failure by trying to keep unlicensed, inexperienced installers (DIY) from causing the products to fail by incorrect installation/use.

    This is my general view... not supporting Ness in particular.

    There are numerous examples of the same type of warranty conditions.

    Eg: Electrical equipment... warranty is only honored when installed by a licensed electrician.

    Plumbing... warranty is only valid when equipment installed by a licensed plumber. Etc, etc.

    Personally, I don't have an issue with DIY of the nature you are explaining.,,, But you are on your own.

    What does bug me is when things go wrong and the DIY'er expects a professional to talk them through how to fix it.

    Would I be inclined to want to share my many years of experience, training, qualifications and product knowledge for free with a DIY'er who's buggered up his install?

    Probably not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mtv View Post
    Would I be inclined to want to share my many years of experience, training, qualifications and product knowledge for free with a DIY'er who's buggered up his install?
    Probably not.
    I don't expect any expert to provide free services and I don't know anyone who does expect it. If I could find a "professional alarm installer" who had any idea of professionalism, reliability & honesty I would hire them immediately to do the work. No luck yet. The home alarm industry seems to be very shonky from my experience over the past couple of months.
    Last edited by gregg; 19-12-17 at 09:59 AM.

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    Sounds more like you are calling the wrong installers. There are plenty of experienced and knowledge technicians in Perth.

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    With experience and knowledge - perhaps, but you've forgotten about the other three criteria I listed: professional, reliable, honest.
    Experience and knowledge is of no use if they don't turn up, don't bother providing a (promised) quote, miss items in their quote, inflate prices, think they deserve more pay than a brain surgeon, provide misleading or incorrect information, etc, etc.
    If you know anyone who qualifies in the Perth region then please let me know. A list here would be very helpful to others.
    Last edited by gregg; 19-12-17 at 10:30 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gregg View Post
    With experience and knowledge - perhaps, but you've forgotten about the other three criteria I listed: professional, reliable, honest.
    Experience and knowledge is of no use if they don't turn up, don't bother providing a (promised) quote, miss items in their quote, inflate prices, think they deserve more pay than a brain surgeon, provide misleading or incorrect information, etc, etc.
    If you know anyone who qualifies in the Perth region then please let me know. A list here would be very helpful to others.
    Can't comment on why the companies have not turned up or not followed through with the quote.

    Missing items could of just been an oversight.

    Can you elaborate on the misleading and incorrect information?

    I agree with what others have said. The knowledge we obtain over the years is not free and you will find a more experienced tech will charge more than a new tech.

    His price will reflect his service.

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    I've posted this in another forum but it is useful information for readers of this thread as well.

    Status update for all you DIY people (and installers) ....
    Trying to locate a WA (retail) supplier of alarm systems has proved a nightmare. I kept getting fed the line "only licenced security installers can buy our gear" from wholesalers and the line "only licenced security installers can buy alarms from suppliers so you have to pay us to supply AND install" from installers, both which I found hard to believe. I decided to track down the "law" myself. I've read the relevant clauses in the WA security "Act" and WA security "Regulations".
    In summary, if I want to get paid for installing an alarm system then I must be licenced. Fair enough. If I just do my own alarm then I do not need to be licenced.
    (Fiddling with 240V, of course, will need an electrician unless one is just plugging in a device with a 3 pin plug. Running cable inside a roof cavity will need a licenced cabler I believe but I've not read the "law" myself. It is not relevant to my situation anyway.)

    So the lies fed to us consumers by installers and wholesalers are now exposed.
    Last edited by gregg; 28-12-17 at 11:29 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gregg View Post
    .... It is not relevant to my situation anyway.
    Wrong.... it applies to you and every other DIY.

    What you are saying is no different to you thinking you can do your own DIY electrical and plumbing installation, because you're not getting paid to install it.

    It is relevant to your situation.

    From the ACMA Customer cabling rules & requirements:

    Quote Originally Posted by ACMA
    All customer cabling work in the telecommunications, fire, security and data industries must be performed by a registered cabler.


    There is no such restriction on where you can purchase equipment from, just as you can purchase electrical and plumbing supplies from Bunnings, etc, although some 'trade' outlets restrict sales to appropriately-licensed persons, usually those with accounts with that particular wholesale outlet, etc.

    You don't need a security licence to install an alarm in your own home... but... all cabling must be installed by a licensed cabler.

    Hopefully that clarifies the rules for you.

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    Thanks mtv but I think you may be making some incorrect assumptions.

    I am not installing "fixed" cabling (which requires a licenced cabler according to your post number 8 above.)
    Any cabling I install will not be fixed. A wireless system also requires no cabling so no licence is required to install the alarm.
    This is what I meant when I said it is not relevant to me.
    My apologies - I should have stated that more clearly.

    I can see one potential problem however.... the ACMA link you gave refers to the Standard AS/CA S009, which I have just downloaded but not yet read (220 pages). Is there something in there that would prohibit me from installing either a wireless or wired (but not fixed cables) alarm system in my own home ?

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