Florida USA - Another High School Shooting

[ol' boy]

California banned 2-Stroke engines years ago.....

Because of the obvious risk to the environment and health.
Guns are ok though

[mtv]

Yep... criminals will always manage to obtain firearms, but if you make it harder for them, such as reducing the number of weapons that are stolen, it reduces the risk.

Many nutters on the other hand are not criminals before they go out on a killing spree and although many are known to authorities, they are still permitted to purchase firearms.

Then there are little kids who manage to get hold of parents' firearms and accidentally kill someone or themselves.

It's the easy access to firearms that's the biggest issue.

[admin]

I also agree they need to update the way they do background checks but the rights of being able to buy guns is complicated. There are sure numbers that back handguns are the most popular for accidental and violent crimes but their idea of gun control is only attacking legal gun owners. Tough to say if it wasn't so easy for him to buy a gun would he have bought it illegally possibly however as unfortunate as it is if he killed several people with a axe should we consider banning those as well I think the real issue here is also law enforcement officials they had multiple complaints or issues and not to act on them including the fbi was just proof that law enforcement is not going to protect anyone. If I put a gun on the table it wouldn't shoot anyone by itself but someone could pick it up and shoot me or someone with it but its hard to tell who will and wont or when. The other side of the fence is defense for legal gun owners if a criminal is carrying they aren't going to care about new gun laws or background checks its no bother too them really its going to be a long drawn out process of walking the fine line in the middle to solve this problem and everyone will need to come together to do so.

Its always interesting to hear from members in the US and their opinions because in reality we are chalk and cheese with our gun laws.

After having one of the worst massacres in the world


Our Prime Minster at the time, John Howard, had the guts to stand up in front of the Gun Lobby and tell them he was changing the laws in this country to end the pro gun culture so that we didnt end up like the US.

What he did was quite effective. Yes, there are still shootings, but basically its a crim shooting a crim.

You can still get a gun licence and buy a gun. I know someone who owns them and shouldn't, not because he is bad, but because he is irresponsible. In the last 2 years, he has been caught for not having his guns in a safe and for having a sawn off air rifle ( considered a firearm in this country ). Neither time police did a thing, which is pretty poor.

[hacknewz]

Its always interesting to hear from members in the US and their opinions because in reality we are chalk and cheese with our gun laws.

After having one of the worst massacres in the world


Our Prime Minster at the time, John Howard, had the guts to stand up in front of the Gun Lobby and tell them he was changing the laws in this country to end the pro gun culture so that we didnt end up like the US.

What he did was quite effective. Yes, there are still shootings, but basically its a crim shooting a crim.

You can still get a gun licence and buy a gun. I know someone who owns them and shouldn't, not because they are bad, but because they are irresponsible. In the last 2 years, he has been caught for not having his guns in a safe and for having a sawn off air rifle ( considered a firearm in this country ). Neither time police did a thing, which is pretty poor.

But you guys in the US have to be realistic, you have gone too far. Laws from the 1700's about bearing arms dont relates to 2018 and you guys kill more of your own people with guns than anyone else does.

I agree I guess it depends on the area your live in some places I don't think you need them in particular where I live and with how many criminals walking around its the illegal purchased ones doing most of the killing gang, drug or robbery related the only thing protecting people who live here are legal purchased guns what is that saying cant bring a knife to a gun fight at least in your own home if someone breaks in. I guess if they could get the illegal and legal firearms out then it would be a different story but right now it seems like the only stories hitting the media are the ones of legal purchase which doesn't put a dent in the close to 200 gun crimes a year just in local city here of illegal ones that's just one city not even statewide of course those don't make the news like the other 18 have. If they are going to remove them then it needs to be all which is tough try getting a criminal who doesn't abide by the law to hand over his firearm not so easy unfortunately and if they take the legal ones what means do we the legal owners have to defend ourselves?

[Tech4U]

Our Prime Minster at the time, John Howard, had the guts to stand up in front of the Gun Lobby and tell them he was changing the laws in this country to end the pro gun culture so that we didnt end up like the US.

What he did was quite effective. Yes, there are still shootings, but basically its a crim shooting a crim.

Howard's gun laws might seem quite effective, until you take New Zealand into account.

Australia hasn't had any mass shootings (5 or more killed, not including the shooter) since Port Arthur in 1996, New Zealand hasn't any mass shootings since Raurimu in 1997. Both countries had multiple mass shootings before this, but none after.
New Zealand still has access to semi-auto long arms, there was no gun buy back, and no National Firearms Agreement.

Personally, I believe the drop in mass shootings in Australia has a lot more to do with better health care, then Howard's gun laws ever did. 25/30 years ago, men would never openly talk about being depressed, the stigma has been removed these days, men go and get help for this illness now.

[lsemmens]

The issue is not the legality of gun ownership in the 'States, it is more the availability of weapons. If guns are readily available, of course there will be more gun related crime. If there are fewer guns, and they are harder to obtain then those who do own such weapons tend to be more protective of them. Currently, any idiot can buy a bang stick and leave it lying around for junior to take to school or some miscreant to break in and find under their pillow. Strangely, we don't have nearly as many firearm related incidents in OZ because they are so much more difficult to obtain.

[enf]

.........................
New Zealand still has access to semi-auto long arms, there was no gun buy back, and no National Firearms Agreement.

........................

And a national population equivalent to Sydney alone, so there are a lot less people spread over a wider area. Howards laws were a good and effective start to nipping the issue in the bud. They also restricted the availability as stated by lsemmens.

Don't get me wrong here. I firmly believe that gun legislation in the USA is a complete and total waste of time.....unless some national life change was to magically occur, then those that want them will fight back and the resultant slaughter will be equivalent to a civil war. Weapon manufacturers will pump billions into campaigns and pockets to muddy the waters. Let em just kill each other.

[CONAXLE]

[Tech4U]

And a national population equivalent to Sydney alone, so there are a lot less people spread over a wider area. Howards laws were a good and effective start to nipping the issue in the bud. They also restricted the availability as stated by lsemmens.

I'm not sure why you would think the population or population density would be a factor here, did the population suddenly decline after 1997, did the land mass become significantly larger?

New Zealand had several mass shootings prior to 1997, but has had none since. They still have access to semi-auto long arms, there was no gun buy back, and no National Firearms Agreement.
If Howard's gun laws are the reason for the decline in mass shootings in Australia, as the media and so many here like to claim, how do you explain New Zealand's zero mass shootings over the last 20 years?

As far as the old "more guns equals more gun crime" argument goes, how do you explain countries like Iceland and Norway?

Norway - estimated 31.3 firearms per 100 residents, firearm homicide rate of 0.10 per 100 000.
Iceland - estimated 30.3 firearms per 100 residents, firearm homicide rate of 0.00 per 100 000.
Australia - estimated 24.1 firearms per 100 residents, firearm homicide rate of 0.16 per 100 000.
New Zealand - estimated 22.6 firearms per 100 residents, firearm homicide rate of 0.11 per 100 000.

Australia has more firearms now then we did before the 1996 gun buy back, yet firearm homicides and suicides are still declining, and have been since the early 90's.

As far as the US goes, the fact of the matter is, even if they wanted to, the government can't afford to fund a buy back such as was done here in Australia, there's just to many guns, so that only leaves the banning of new sales of certain types of firearms, such as the previous "assault weapon ban" did. This will do absolutely nothing to lower the number of firearms in the community. As much as people here love to talk about simply banning semi automatic rifles in the US, you can't just take peoples legally owned property with out compensation, that is theft.
I don't see any problem with mandatory background checks for all firearm sales in the US, realistic waiting periods for first firearm purchases, and just basic common sense laws that most countries already follow.

But I can also understand why Americans are hesitant to allow these simple changes, and countries like Australia are in part responsible for it. The Australian government constantly talks about it's world leading gun laws and how many lives they save, yet they still constantly call for tighter and tighter restrictions on firearm owner ship. It's death by a thousand cuts, first ban semi auto long rifles and pump action shotguns, then add to that firearms that are to "military" in appearance, then over the next few years they'll stop granting permits to acquire for certain large caliber chamberings, but since they can't legally do that, after a few appeals, they'll just change the range templates so that you can't legally shoot them anywhere anyway. Then they restricted ammunition purchases, then they moved a category A lever action shotgun to category D (which is the category that actual assault weapons are in), on the grounds of "new technology", but the first lever action shotguns where made back in 1887, and to top that all off, there has never been a crime committed in Australia with a lever action shotgun, the stopping of granting cat H permits to QLD farmers, that they have legally held for over 30 years, with no explanation why.
The Greens are constantly calling for the the banning of semi automatic handguns, even though category H firearms are already strictly controlled, the removal of junior licenses, which would mean you could not legally shoot a firearm until you are 18 years old, the removal of Form 33 visits to gun clubs, which would mean you could not even try the sport out, with out first actually obtaining a firearms license, limits on the amount of ammunition you can have in your possession, tight limits on the number of firearms one can own, even though you must obtain a permit to acquire on each additional firearm, and have already showed a legitimate reason for that purchase, and the removal of all firearms from residential dwellings, to a central storage location.
Good luck selling all that to the American people.

[mtv]

Florida House refuses to debate guns, but declares porn dangerous.

The Florida House of Representatives was in session on Tuesday, considering several issues.

These included a motion to consider a bill banning the sale of assault weapons in the aftermath of the mass shooting that killed 17 people last week at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Fla., and a resolution declaring pornography a public health risk.

The House chose not to consider the bill that would lead to stricter gun control.

But it passed a resolution claiming that porn is dangerous.

[Tech4U]

Is there a reason why my last reply required moderator approval?

[mtv]

Is there a reason why my last reply required moderator approval?

None that I could see.

Just the automated filter must have been unsure of something.... I've approved it.