Reply With QuoteGotta give Belkin 10 points for the very shiny reflective surface that shows the Photographer and a beaded family member so clearly...........
Belkin Call Centers The Worst Ever to ring for info on there products
Well what a experience I had ringing belkin call centers for some information on one of there surge protectors.
Written by me Daughter as she is faster than me.
On Wednesday night while the wife and myself where watching TV in our expensive Tv room the power went off. The First thing I notice that we had lights on in other parts of the house and after 30 seconds the power went on so I sat back down only for minute later to go off again.
Now after this happen 4 time I realised that some thing must be wrong so I decided to do some checking around the house as I suspected as we have 3 phase in the house we may have lost one leg. The first thing that I did, I got the diagram of the house which has every powerpoint and light in it and what phase they are on, either A, B or C and I noticed that our big satellite TV room is connected to B phase but I also noticed the computer room powerpoint is also connected to B phase so I sat back down and waited untill the power went off again and when it happened I raced into the computer room and found the NBN modem still on. Hmmm. Houston we have an issue here. Now I suspected a problem with the Belkin model number surge protector Pro 4000.
Now I sat down on the carpet looking at the surge protector. I had all the expensive equipment turned off, only had one simple monitor that is connected to our aerial system. I sat there for minutes watching. I sat there for a further one hour and nothing happened but you guessed. As soon as I got up and walked away the power went off but this time I noticed on the right hand side of the switch an orange light flashing to me and then it turned off. Now on this Belkin surge protectors when you have the surge protector screwed on the wall upright so the Belkin naming is up the top, on the left hand side of the switch you have a pretty green LED and it says protected. On the right hand side you normally, yes normally, see nothing underneath that tinted dark plastic. You cant see anything under there even if you shine a torch under there so I do not know what the message was telling me so I waited again and waited again. Only once again to get off the carpet after another hour or more only to lose power once again and I saw the orange light come on then flashed and the power come back on on the TV and the orange light went off.
After this I turned the whole system off because the house was okay. I realised the issue was the Belkin surge protector so what i did was ring Belkin. I could not believe what I heard. I have been a licenced electrician including other qualifications in the electrical field for 40 years. I am retired now, that means I am over 65. I have never in my entire life experienced the stupidity and the incompetence of the people who answer the calls for Belkin. I'll tell you exactly what I said to them, clearly. By the way I asked to speak to Technical service person in this field.
Good morning, I am ringing on behalf of one of your surge protectors. The model number is Pro 4000. I have an issue with this surge protector as every now and then I lose power and I notice on the right hand side of the switch when this surge protector is screwed on the wall so the orientation of the switch and Belkin label is correct on the right hand side I see a orange flashing light. At the same time the power goes off. By the time I get off the lounge (we have a large lounge room) and get close enough to see what the flashing light is about, it goes off. And after doing this a few times I turned everything off. Now can you please tell me what is the Belkin trying to tell me? What is on the right hand side of the switch? And after 15 minutes on the phone of them telling me nothing I begged to them, can you please send me to your technical area so I can ask one very simple question, what is the orange LED light that comes on on the right hand side of the switch as it comes on when we lose power to the TV?
Well they could not tell me. I asked them, are you Belkin? Surely you should understand and know the products you sell. This is a very simple request for me. all I want to know is what is the Belkin trying to tell me? And yet these idiots from Belkins call centre could not tell me, they didnt even know what I was talking about. I cannot understand, this is the worst experience I have ever had. Even worse than ringing LG or even Sony regarding an issue. Its even worse than ringing up Telstra (I wont tell you what country they come from). Enough is enough. Companies in this country should test their call centres to see if they can answer the basic questions because again, this is the worst I have ever experienced since telephones were invented.
Now 24 hours has passed. Belkin could not tell me anything. They even sent me an email of a completely different model and I said to hell with them so I had to find out by myself what the issue is. What is that message coming up? So what I did first, i did some research on the Belkin Pro 4000 and I noticed that it has under and over voltage protection (hmmmmmm). As the morning progressed I got my test equipment out. Now I wanted to simulate under voltage as I expected that under voltage was the issue because it was 38 degrees that day and still 30 degrees at night and everyone had their air conditioners on that lowered the street voltage. Yes that day I measured the voltage and I found it to be hanging around at night around 225-230. Minimum was around 220 and normally thats low but I dont know that 220 volts will shut down a surge protector so what I did. I got my veriac out and I connected the Belkin via its earth to the Belkin. I set the veriac preliminary on 240 volts so I wound the voltage down untill I got the message I wanted on the Belkin which was VOLTAGE.
When the voltage was lowered to 201 volts the power shut off on the Belkin and the orange light came up. Whoopeedo. You think the idiots in Belkin could've told me this instead of me, an old man, having to simulate this issue to find out what is going on. I leave you below a series of photos showing you what I did.
I will never never ever purchase anything from Belkin again. I will tell my friends and business partners not to purchase anything from Belkin again. This is outrageous and companies who want to employ these cheap call centres overseas should be dealt with accordingly.
Belkin showing the Protected symbol
Belkin wired up for testing showing 240Volts
Belkin Showing 216 Volts
Belkin showing 201 Volts
Belkin under 201 Volts it shuts down leaving THAT MESSAGE ON THE RIGHT SIDE SAYING "VOLTAGE"
Belkin with the same message being under Voltage
Belkin I think you better train your people where ever they are to act on your behalf as I cannot understand how they cannot answer the basic basic basic questions and that is on the Surge Protector model Pro 4000 (BV108130au3M) what is that orange LED that light up when the power goes OFF on the board. PERIOD!!!!
Last edited by Mr 672A; 19-02-18 at 12:37 PM.
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Gotta give Belkin 10 points for the very shiny reflective surface that shows the Photographer and a beaded family member so clearly...........
I stand unequivicably behind everything I say, I just dont ever remember saying it !!
Fixed nowOriginally Posted by gordon_s1942
Gotta give Belkin 10 points for the very shiny reflective surface that shows the Photographer and a beaded family member so clearly...........
Belkin. this was the second time I rang them in 6 months. The first one the day after I purchased 5 Surge Protectors for the house I rang them and I got the same treatment. NEVER AGAIN!! I have now 10 minute ago purchased a 3000 KVA UPS Power Supply with everything for our main Satellite TV room.
Last edited by Mr 672A; 19-02-18 at 12:53 PM.
Yes as you can see I had 6 People in My room Arm and legs everywhere All but one was me, the rest was my neighbours that are interesting on what I do. So what will they will do TALK TO OTHER PEOPLE and tell them about the Idiots at Belkin that don't even know the products they sell.Gotta give Belkin 10 points for the very shiny reflective surface that shows the Photographer and a beaded family member so clearly...........
Last edited by Mr 672A; 19-02-18 at 12:51 PM.
I can see the problem in the last piccie. It's all those wires you got hanging off it.
I'm out of my mind, but feel free to leave a message...
wal1 (19-02-18)
does the unit have any sticker on the back stating what the light does ? or anything mentioned in the card that came with it?
The four male plugs were remove on the surge protector for testing and I only left the aerial and the Ethernet. This unit trips even when nothing is connected to it all you need is the voltage to go below 201 Volts.I can see the problem in the last piccie. It's all those wires you got hanging off it.
Don't think so and I didn't want to remove it off the wall as the unit slides to the left on screws under and marks the wall getting it off. The unit might have had something written on it in the box but it gone 5 months ago in the bin so what the next best thing, RING THE COMPANY THAT MAKES THEM to get the info you need.
I've always been pretty skeptical about the effectiveness of the cheaper "surge protector" devices. I think most of them just have a few metal oxide varistors - devices that you'll find already built in to most electronics equipment that is sensitive to mains spikes anyway.
The one I bought quite some years ago is made by APC. At the time, APC were the only manufacturer of surge protectors that I could find that actually supplied proper technical specifications for the device - e.g. how much energy it can absorb (in Joules) and the time to respond to an over-voltage event in nano-seconds. You never really know if these things work, but when lightning struck the power line outside our place a couple of years ago, none of the gear connected to it died. My ADSL modem kindly sacrificed itself to save the cordless phones though :-)
This Belkin unit has 2142 joules protection and its a lot better than ones with only 250 joule. the Problem here is not the unit its the people running the show
Effective protection always answer this question. Where do hundreds of thousands of joules harmlessly dissipate? That Belkin only claims to protect from surges already made irrelevant by what is superior protection inside electronics.
Normal is for a surge, too tiny to overwhelm protection inside appliances, to destroy that protector. Then the naive recommend it and buy more - because it failed catastrophcally. Worse, that protector can compromise what is better protection inside the attached appliance or any other nearby appliance (even if not connected to the Belkin).
But again, anyone can read specification numbers. Protection always defines where hundreds of thousands of joules are harmlessly absorbed. Effective protectors remains functional even after direct lightning strikes. And cost tens of times less that the Belkin (per protected appliance).
No protector must fail catastrophically. Only acceptable failure is degradation.
If anything needs protection, then everything needs that protection. What protects a dishwasher, dimmer switches, stove, RCD, furnace, refrigerator, central air (even when not in use), and every smoke detector?
That Belkin has a massive profit margin. They are not selling effective protection - as made obvious by its specification numbers and customer support answers. For over 100 years, effective protection has always been defined by this simple concept - that clearly does not exist with that Belkin. A protector is only as effective as its earth ground. (Wall receptacle safety ground is not earth ground.)
Last edited by westom; 21-02-18 at 10:07 AM.
We have a Very expensive Sat TV room worth more than 40 new washing machines (13X $1000 washing Machines just for the TV) + the New dual oven + two Fridge Freezers with Ice makers + every other electronic device around the house. Yes expensive Hobby we have in one room and yes I know that 2142 joules wont protect that all but I do everything than I can do just in case we have close lightning strike (forget direct). For my Dishes they are all earthed via a Rod, 3 off them and all are connected together, The main FTA Antenna on the House is insulated to a point from the house by a 24 inch section that i can remove, the bridge section (in the Broom closet) and when ever there is a storm I ALLWAYS Disconnect all Marked Leads around the house (4 of them and are easy to get too) so it make it easy for other no Electronics minded people in the House to do the Same in case if I'm not home at the time when there is a storm.
Yes we all can try but some time this is not enough to protect our expensive equipment in our home.
I laugh when Belkin says you have $250,000 Protection if you buy THIS PROTECTOR. LOL.LOL.LOL. What a lot of Rubbish. You possible will need to have $500,000 to spend for Lawyers to get your $50,000 back
Last edited by Mr 672A; 21-02-18 at 11:04 AM.
Disconnecting is a least reliable solution. Since surges are many (lightning is only one) type. Since problem means every item (all hardwired ones that can never be disconnected) must be protected. And because protection that is tens of times less money protects from direct lightning strikes.
Does your telco switching center disconnect all service during every storm? Of course not. Disconnecting was never reliable. That switching computer is threatened by about 100 surges with each storm. How often is your town without phone service for four days while they replace that computer? Never? They use science - not lies and myths that promote magic boxes.
Best protection never disconnects. Best protection always connects a surge harmlessly to earth BEFORE it can enter. Protection increases when that protector connection to earth decreases (is shorter). Protection increases when separation between protector and appliances increases (separation is longer).
Telcos want their protectors up to 50 meters distant from protection. That is protection even from direct lightning strikes.
If a protector is effective, then it remains functional for decades even after many direct strikes. Nothing new. This is how it was done over 100 years ago. That well proven by both science and experience. And virtually unknown to a majority only educated by myths, speculation, and advertising.
Demonstrated is how easily so many are so easily scammed by lies, sales brochures, junk science reasoning, subjective reasoning, propaganda, and no spec numbers. Effective protection means nobody even knew a surge existed. Effective protection means hundreds of thousands of joules dissipate harmlessly outside. Effective protection means best protection inside appliances (superior to what a Belkin might do) is not overwhelmed. Best protection means a surge is not anywhere inside. Best protection is never defined by the protector. That is only a connecting device to what does protection. A protector is only as effective as its earth ground.
Ineffective protectors with massive profit margins will not even discuss THE most critical item in every protection system. Some effective protection systems do not even have any protector. But all effective solutions feature a low impedance (ie less than 3 meter) connection to 'single point earth ground'. All four words have major electrical significance.
A protector is only as effective as its earth ground. Then even an expensive Belkin is protected.
Last edited by westom; 21-02-18 at 12:03 PM.
Mr 672A (21-02-18)
And this is the reason why we have a poor Earthing System In Queensland Only because your earth is MEN "Main Earth Neutral" and one small Earth Rod under the switchboard. See in Sydney NSW all Main water pipes are copper so you get a reasonable good earth but here in Queensland we have plastic (polyethylene) main water pipe thus your earth is only by MEN and that small rod where most of the time the 4 or 6MM earth wire is corroded off. (seen a few of them like this)
Funny thing is a well respected Electrical Engineer years ago told me when you have a storm always remove the power plug of a device or devices from the wall outlet.
When I first started in Darwin, every wet season we had a technician working full time on replacing blown components on the PCBs of the (Then) relatively new telephone, intercom systems. Eventually we were able to convince the powers that be that Darwin needed something more efficient to protect against power surges. Good surge protection is a must in a city that has the highest number of thunder days of any capital in the world. I still have a brick from those days that has protected my computers ever since. It even protected the rest of the house once when we suffered a direct strike. Only the computer was plugged into it. A kid was on the computer whilst another was playing a computer game on the TV. Kid on the TV suffered a mild shock, we blew a few light globes and blew a fuse in the TV set. All the computer did was re-start. The school next door lost an air conditioner unit and there was a nice black mark where the lightning hit.
I have also had to replace telephone systems that have suffered as a result of lightning strike. So, yes, good surge protection is a must. Of course, if you suffer from regular brown outs, you can also damage equipment, but not as often. A good UPS covers that.
I'm out of my mind, but feel free to leave a message...
Water pipes may be good to earth ... for 50 Hz electricity. But is often inferior to that single rod for surge protection; for reasons that most do not know. Long before making conclusions from what an electrician might know, first, one must learn what is taught to every 1st semester engineer.
For example, a thicker wire does almost nothing to make a better connection. A shorter wire causes a major earthing improvement. Too many think in terms of resistance - and have no idea what impedance is. If that hardwire connection to earth is inside a metallic conduit, or has sharp bends, then that connection is compromised. Still sufficient for 50 Hz electricity and woefully compromised for surges.
Even solder joints in copper pipes compromise conductivity of those pipes. Not for 50 Hz electricity. And yes for surge protection.
Disconnecting depends on a most unreliable item in the house - a human. When does a human learn that a surge maybe coming? After it has happened. Nobody can know of a surge created by a stray car, linemen error, tree rodent, or utility switching. The informed never depend on unreliable humans (who must also sleep, take showers, work, and leave home). The informed spend many times less than that plug-in protector for protection even from direct lightning strikes.
IEEE demonstrates what a plug-in protector can do. A TV was plugged into one. Since it was not earthed, then a surge was destructively connected (by that protector) to any nearby appliance. In an IEEE example, a protector connected to a first TV, earthed a surge 8,000 volts destructively through a TV in a second room. Only observation (wild speculation) concludes that protector did protection. It actually made surge damage easier - to a second TV.
A conclusion from 'one item not damaged' says nothing. Because that conclusion uses observation - also called classic junk science.
A surge is incoming to everything. Is everything damaged? Of course not. It is called electricity. An outgoing path also must exist. Incoming to everything. But only outgoing, destructively, to earth via one or two appliances. No matter where that plug-in protector is, that surge will still choose which appliance to destroy.
Forgetting how electricity works is why conclusions from observation result in bogus conclusions. Nobody has any reason to believe a plug-in protector protected anything ... until they literally replace damaged internal components in each appliance. Actually trace a surge path. We did that. We then learn why plug-in protectors are near zero protection. And sometimes can make surge damage easier.
Observation also wildly speculates that an incoming path suffers damage. One sees damage on a TV cable connection. Then assumes a surge was incoming on cable. Wrong. Damage is often the outgoing path. Incoming on AC mains. Outgoing via TV cable. Another example of why observation creates junk science conclusions.
Critical to protection is how that cloud (3 km up) connects to earthborne charges (ie 4 km distant). If that path goes anywhere inside, then effective protection does not exist. If that path connects to earth outside at the service entrance, then that current is not anywhere inside.
And not just any earth ground. It must be single point earth ground. That means every wire in every incoming cable must make a low impedance (ie less than 3 meter) connection to the same earthing electrode. If any one telephone wire, TV cable, lawn sprinkler wire, or AC electric wire does not make that connection, then all protection is compromised.
Whereas lightning is the example, these concepts apply to many other surge sources.
It was always (even over 100 years ago) this simple. A protector is only as effective as the connection to and quality of single point earth ground. And again, wall receptacle safety ground clearly is not earth ground.
Mr 672A (23-02-18)
Very interesting on what you say. Many years ago I wrote to The Mythbusters that use to be on SBS TV ( i think it was SBS) on the early days of production and I spoke about the myths on surge protector and there lucky dip on what they do and do not protect but they wrote me back and they will only do tests and bust the myth where they have a lot of public asking for the same. Well you can see no one was interested for this or they did not want to tread on someone else's toes so nothing was ever run. The closest they ever came to it was a Faraday Cage and a tesla lightning coil and that it.
What is an undervolt light reporting? A voltage so low that motorized appliances are at serious risk. A voltage that low remains perfectly good (ideal) for all electronics. Did they forget to mention that - or just promote more fears?
I tested the Surge protector by lowering the variac and when both multimeters came to 201Volts AC and a wisker (about 200.5V on the Fluke) lower the power went off the load side of the Belkin and the Orange LED came on and reported "VOLTAGE" it stay like this, then it blinked as I drove the Variac back up and when it came back to 210 Volts it fired up again. You wonder what could cause a issue like this by having the voltage go maybe under 200V and star like this for a few seconds.
Yes I prefer a Voltage around 220V for all of my electronics as some of my satellite decoders are rated 220V
Years ago we has a few appliance die and I got suspicious of this and measured the voltage in the house and it was 277V. Now Energex said it just withing specs but it was to high and to high for stuff rated 220V but after neighbours have stuff dies and MAINLY the guy that live next door from the Kiosk Tranny 11,000/415 V and when I told him this and he told me than over a dozen appliance in his house have died in the last 6 months.
After two month Energex decided to replace the tranny with a higher KVA rated one.
By the way Yesterday was cold at rainy at 24 deg temp and I would say most will have there Air Con off so I measures the Voltage in 2 hour periods and I found the Voltage no more than 241V Yes that will do I wont scare them to upper the taps on the tranny for any higher. Just as well we live 400M away from the kiosk.
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