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Thread: Ask an American 'Gun Nut' anything, aka does the rest of the world understand us?

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    It was piss funny Tiny.

    Yeah, we had a referendum about independence but we decided that shit wasn't going to float.

    If you don't want a gun, you don't have to buy one!.
    But if "I" want a gun, why can't I buy one?
    Yes I am an agent of Satan, but my duties are largely ceremonial.



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    Quote Originally Posted by trash View Post
    It was piss funny Tiny.

    Yeah, we had a referendum about independence but we decided that shit wasn't going to float.


    But if "I" want a gun, why can't I buy one?
    Well you could take up arms agai...oh... wait... nevermind....



    You see, gun ownership protects the 'nuclear option' of having to fight a tyrannical gov't..... again...

    Once that's lost, you have lost a very big bargaining chip.

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    Quote Originally Posted by technoweenie View Post
    Well you could take up arms agai...oh... wait... nevermind....



    You see, gun ownership protects the 'nuclear option' of having to fight a tyrannical gov't..... again...

    Once that's lost, you have lost a very big bargaining chip.
    wow! we will never be on the same page here in OZ, as we are not expecting to take up arms against our gov't.

    You have a society that has that in their past & live in that past. Just saying?

    I own 2 guns for vermin control. Would I like a better gun than I'm allowed to have?
    Yes, a semi-automatic for rabbits, little buggers are small & quick, but I'm getting so quick on my 10 shot bolt action now that I'll get them eventually. lol.
    Cheers, Tiny
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiny View Post
    wow! we will never be on the same page here in OZ, as we are not expecting to take up arms against our gov't.

    You have a society that has that in their past & live in that past. Just saying?
    I will agree and disagree.... It is part of what makes us, there is always an undercurrent of discontent with gov't.... That's probably the easiest way to explain it, although not entirely accurate. You're correct that in a sense we are living in the past, but I see it as learning from history.

    I own 2 guns for vermin control. Would I like a better gun than I'm allowed to have?
    Yes, a semi-automatic for rabbits, little buggers are small & quick, but I'm getting so quick on my 10 shot bolt action now that I'll get them eventually. lol.
    How are lever actions regulated there? You could have a real nice 45-70 that'll take down anything in OZ or NZ.


    Side note. I was chastised for bringing up gov't sanctioned genocide and land theft in South Africa, saying it's not fair to compare anything to it because it's a ^$#*hole.. lol
    f
    Why is that an invalid example?

    What would happen if gov't stepped in and said 'we are taking control of the farms in OZ, anyone operating/owning a farm has 60 days to cede the property to the gov't. and vacate the premises, even if you live on the land...?

    I know, you're gonna say 'it'll never happen'.. But I'm waving my magic wand and *poof* it's happening.lol

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    technoweenie, I am probably one of the most conservative right wing people on this site. But if the population of my country ever end up with the whack job mentality you guys are running on over there, the only reason I would want a gun is to shoot myself in the head. Because I wouldnt want to live in a country where every second person thinks the government is watching them and needs to be armed to the teeth....... just in case.

    I'll say something here as respectfully as possible.

    My grandfather was a gunner, a member of a heavy anti aircraft battery who served in the Middle East and New Guinea. While serving in New Guinea, he earned his qualification as a radio operator. My grandfather was a deeply religious man who considered it his duty to help others (he signed up after hearing about Dunkirk and the empire in trouble), and while the rest of his battery went out drinking in their spare time, he used to spend his spare time on the radio assisting allied pilots in shot up planes to make land by sitting there with a map and helping them look for landmarks. My cousin spoke to him as part of a school project years ago, and he said that the most rewarding part of his time spent in WW2 was when American pilots (90% of planes were US where he was) would track down "that aussie on the radio" and come and seek him out personally and thank him for his help. They used to try and reward him, but he would never take anything, it just wasn't who he was or why he did it.

    He said that get an American on his own that you wont find a better mate in the world. But get them together and their mentality just turns to mush......I dont know why he said, they are just too gung ho when you get them in a group.

    I hope you take the above for what it is, its not an insult , but an insight.....in to how others see American actions. While those events happened nearly 75 years ago, its still just as relevant now as it was then.

    And for the record, I am pro US and always have been. But it doesnt mean I agree with everything the US does.

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    Quote Originally Posted by technoweenie View Post
    How are lever actions regulated there? You could have a real nice 45-70 that'll take down anything in OZ or NZ.
    I'de love a lever action rifle & a pump action shotgun, however they are both in the same category as semi auto as far as I know.
    I could own one if I registered with a gun club, but I don't really need them & can't justify ownership for vermin control.
    I've become a better shooter due to my reduced firing capacity.
    I go into Elmer Fudd mode & all is good, lol.
    Cheers, Tiny
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    The information is out there; you just have to let it in."

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    Quote Originally Posted by admin View Post
    technoweenie, I am probably one of the most conservative right wing people on this site. But if the population of my country ever end up with the whack job mentality you guys are running on over there, the only reason I would want a gun is to shoot myself in the head. Because I wouldnt want to live in a country where every second person thinks the government is watching them and needs to be armed to the teeth....... just in case.
    It's probably a fairly vocal minority... 5% maybe, I'm guessing about 30% own firearms though.

    As far as 'gov't is watching'...

    You know about PRISM...That's only 1 leaked program, out of many....It's proven that they 'monitor everything', the question is if you're a big enough fly for them to swat...


    I'll say something here as respectfully as possible.

    My grandfather was a gunner, a member of a heavy anti aircraft battery who served in the Middle East and New Guinea. While serving in New Guinea, he earned his qualification as a radio operator. My grandfather was a deeply religious man who considered it his duty to help others (he signed up after hearing about Dunkirk and the empire in trouble), and while the rest of his battery went out drinking in their spare time, he used to spend his spare time on the radio assisting allied pilots in shot up planes to make land by sitting there with a map and helping them look for landmarks. My cousin spoke to him as part of a school project years ago, and he said that the most rewarding part of his time spent in WW2 was when American pilots (90% of planes were US where he was) would track down "that aussie on the radio" and come and seek him out personally and thank him for his help. They used to try and reward him, but he would never take anything, it just wasn't who he was or why he did it.
    Sounds like an amazing person...

    He said that get an American on his own that you wont find a better mate in the world. But get them together and their mentality just turns to mush......I dont know why he said, they are just too gung ho when you get them in a group.
    Fueled by liquid courage, no doubt, Americans can sure prove to be a bunch of idiots.

    I hope you take the above for what it is, its not an insult , but an insight.....in to how others see American actions. While those events happened nearly 75 years ago, its still just as relevant now as it was then.
    Yeehaw? lol



    And for the record, I am pro US and always have been. But it doesnt mean I agree with everything the US does.
    Americans aren't always happy with 'what America does'.... we're not blind.. heh.


    Also, understand, I'm taking the argument on the extreme side... We're not all hunkered in bunkers waitin' for the gubment..lol...I also don't think I'm mainstream, as far as the average American is concerned. I am a constitutional libertarian that leans conservative...
    Last edited by technoweenie; 12-03-18 at 06:49 PM.

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    technoweenie,

    As much as I applaud your attempt to generate some discussion about this fraught subject, I really think that you are on a hiding to nothing in your quest.

    It is inevitable that Australians will have a vastly different attitude to this subject to that of Americans.

    Those attempting to rationalise the American attitude to the bearing of arms through the prism of Australian values, culture, and experience are truly engaged in a square-peg-in-round-hole exercise.

    The links hereunder go some way to providing a bit of historic background…..and refer to events the likes of which have rarely, if ever, been seen in this country (with the possible exception of the Eureka Stockade).

    These links provide a broad-brush background of death, violence, and an underlying historic mistrust between the governed and the governing (and the Corporatocracy)….which, to a large extent, still permeates much of American society.

    In response to Admins observations regarding the behaviour of Americans in groups…….having spent a great deal of time in that country and with its people, I can honestly say that is behaviour I have never experienced.
    Perhaps it was something that manifested in a time of war.

    Having said that, I wonder if Admin has observed the change in behaviour of Australian blokes when they break free of the missus and get together with a few of the boys over a few tinnies?

    The Americans I referred to in an earlier post, with whom I shared a Saturday arvo target session, were all well educated family men, active and respected within their communities, and held senior management and engineering positions within the oil and gas industry.

    They were fastidious about the condition and use of their firearms, and impeccably observed all appropriate Range protocols.

    Since we’re discussing cultural differences….during my time in the U.S. I had the opportunity to attend many large-scale public events, such as the Houston Rodeo, 4th of July celebrations, and numerous county fairs.

    Without exception, I never once witnessed the sort of drunken, boorish, loutish behaviour at those events that we in Australia consider to be par for the course.

    So we definitely do have our cultural differences

    So, here are the links for those interested…..they are not submitted by way of justification for any current behaviour….just by way of background:

    List of worker deaths in United States labor disputes




    List of incidents of civil unrest in the United States





    America Has Been at War 93% of the Time – 222 out of 239 Years – Since 1776



    Not a pretty picture, but perhaps provide some context against which to consider the current state of affairs in the U.S.

    One gets the impression of a Hamster on his wheel

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    Quote Originally Posted by technoweenie View Post
    Well you could take up arms agai...oh... wait... nevermind....
    No, what I mean is that every time I go to visit uncle sam and want to buy a gun for shits and giggles, I'm told no.
    Pfft.. second amendment. Though to be fair, they'll let me hire anything I want and vapourise some paper targets at the range.

    I'm hoping on my next visit I might be able to pick up something fun, like a Dessert Eagle for shootin varmits in the desert.

    Though I haven't tried to buy a shotgun at walmart. I might put that on my list of shit to do.
    Yes I am an agent of Satan, but my duties are largely ceremonial.

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    In Australia, if you want to live, you don't need one, In America if you want to continue living then you might improve your chances by purchasing a gun.
    I'm out of my mind, but feel free to leave a message...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiny View Post
    Yes, a semi-automatic for rabbits, little buggers are small & quick, but I'm getting so quick on my 10 shot bolt action now that I'll get them eventually. lol.
    We should go shoot some shit some time Tiny. Exercise our unconstitutional rights
    I have a .444 that's good for rabbits.
    Actually I prefer the personal touch one gets when they bust a bunny from 100 yards with Zeds.

    "U S A..... U S A... no wait .... A U S ..... A U S !!!"

    Australia is just like the USA. We love to shoot shit too, just not each other
    Yes I am an agent of Satan, but my duties are largely ceremonial.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lsemmens View Post
    In Australia, if you want to live, you don't need one, In America if you want to continue living then you might improve your chances by purchasing a gun.
    I wouldn't go that far.

    It's a fire extinguisher. It's a tool. Best to have and not need than need and not have.

    I have a fire extinguisher in my car, guess how many car fires I've had..... 0
    I have a fire extinguisher in my house, guess how many fires I've had in my house... 0

    No one wants or expects a fire, but having a fire extinguisher is a minor inconvenience, given the damage that can be done by not having one....and it's no guarantee you'll survive a fire...

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    Using the fire extinguisher allegory, I have had a fire in my car, and I still don't carry one. I've known a few Americans over the years and they are all great people. American tourists.....I'll say not more. I've (for other reasons) have never been to America but people who I know, have. They all comment that Americans are the friendliest and most welcoming people that they could meet. Given that your population is somewhat larger than ours, of course you will find more idiots there. I have a Cousin that went to Alaska to teach some 40 or more years back, we've hardly seen her since! .

    I think that this discussion, whilst very civil is not going to convince either side, one way or 'tother. We must, therefore, agree to disagree. FWIW I think Aussie's trust our government almost as much as Americans trust theirs. We just don't think that our military would put up with letting the government try and take anything that is not rightfully theirs. i.e. the aussie blokes and birds in the military have a healthy disrespect for authority that does not seem to appear in other forces around the world. You've only got to look at military actions in history to see that. Brass says "you can't (as in; it's not able to be done) take that hill", Aussies say, "Bugga it, let's do it anyway". Sorta like your Marines.
    I'm out of my mind, but feel free to leave a message...

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    I don't know of any deaths caused by fire extinguishers, but thee have been millions of deaths caused by guns.

    Austech is an Australian website, with a vast majority of Australian members, so we can't answer 'does the rest of the world understand us' (Americans).

    However, the Australian membership appears to have overwhelmingly answered with a resounding... NO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mtv View Post
    I don't know of any deaths caused by fire extinguishers, but thee have been millions of deaths caused by guns.

    Austech is an Australian website, with a vast majority of Australian members, so we can't answer 'does the rest of the world understand us' (Americans).
    The consequences of having vs not having is the comparison I was using... and I'm sure there are at least a couple idiots that killed themselves with fire extinguishers, hahahaa

    However, the Australian membership appears to have overwhelmingly answered with a resounding... NO.
    Indeed.

    If anyone makes it over to the Pacific Northwest, I could probably find some time to take you to a shooting range, and show you all the fun you're missing out on..

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    We have our own shooting ranges here. They're called "the bush". Feral pigs, Buffalo, wascally wabbits, foxes and all sorts of feral pests are fair game. Much more fun than shooting a bit of paper, or a tin can.
    I'm out of my mind, but feel free to leave a message...

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    Quote Originally Posted by lsemmens View Post
    We have our own shooting ranges here. They're called "the bush". Feral pigs, Buffalo, wascally wabbits, foxes and all sorts of feral pests are fair game. Much more fun than shooting a bit of paper, or a tin can.
    Not with these toys you don't...






    We also have different 'utes'.. heh..


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    OK, maybe I can clarify it for technoweenie rather then him not successfully clarifying it for us

    Lets start with Uncle Sam.
    You might not have noticed, but most of the Aussie here are politically right wing. By Australian standards, we'd be Redneck Republican voters who thought God was a retard.
    We like guns, we love guns, and machinery and chicks with big tits and bikinis and chicks that like bikinis, guns and heavy machinery and all kinds of awesome overkill.

    You notice a few of us own guns and while we think aspects of our gun laws are retarded because they were written by people who don't know which end of a gun to hold, we pretty much agree with out restrictive gun laws and with good reason.

    The first is that while we generally don't like our government, we don't hate it either. We know the system works even if it is a bit broken. Politicians partake in petty corruption, but it's nothing our media and courts can't handle. There is no diabolical corruption so no Australian feels they need to pop a cap in the Prime Minister because he's out of control.
    The only person who ever thought the Prime Minister might deserve to be shot was John Howard right after he made moves to 'fix' our gun laws. (John Howard was the prime minister at the time). He wore a bull proof vest when confronting a rally of gun owners. The dumb arse wasn't prepared to put his balls on the line and take a bullet. If anybody had shot him, it would have completely validated his political response. Though any serious gun owner would have made it a head shot anyway, the bull proof vest was kind of pointless both practically and politically.

    But the reality his that he removed semi-automatic firearms from the community. We grumbled about it a bit. I didn't have any semi-auto rifles so I really didn't lose much.
    I did have a pump action shotgun on order at the time and I was not able to buy it. Bit of a shame, it was only a 5 round pump action. I thought this was a bit of over stepping the point of getting rid of semi-autos. I instead bought an over under shotgun, two rounds semi auto which is perfectly legal. I can also buy a lever action shotgun which holds 5 rounds. Duh!
    They actually made them with 7, but have since curbed their sales.

    So if you ask any of us aussie gun owners, would we like an AK47 to play with. Sure, we wouldn't mind having one. But the reality is.. it's just a toy. Nobody here shoots seriously with one of those. I can do more damage to ferals with my bolt action.
    So what has really happened is that if some body does go postal here, they're going to be doing it slowly. People would still get hurt from some idiot in a bell tower popping off rounds at the crowd, but now they have time to get away and the damage is minimsed.

    Our gun laws make it a pain in the arse to get a gun licence, but not impossible unless your a person with a criminal or violent history or somebody who is or needs to be in the mental health system. They also make it a pain in the arse to buy a gun even if you already have one and yet there are no limits on how many you can own.

    "Self protection" is not a reason to own a gun here. You don't need to protect yourself. Not from our government, not from our police or your neighbour.
    It's also very unlikely that criminals will be carrying a gun because just being found with one is going to get you into the sphincter adjustment program at "The Bay".

    We still have the ability to remove a dictator from office because Australians practice a one shot one kill policy when we hunt ferals.
    One idiot, one gun, one bullet is all that is needed to enforce any unwritten laws of national security for the people.

    Besides, both sides of politics would never allow the other total control. Even when they have a clear majority in parliament their own back benchers keep their party and front benchers in check because they are shit scared of loosing their jobs. Mutual distrust hold this country together, it doesn't tear it apart.

    So we're all agreed that while we all want a semi-auto to play with, there is not real reason to own one.
    The military have them, but there is no way that Aussie soldiers are going to follow orders from anybody to shoot their own civilians. Never ever going to happen in this country.
    Australian soldiers will shoot their commanding officer before that happens.

    Australians know where to place a single bullet where and when it is needed to get the job done.
    We still have crazies, but those crazies are greatly attenuated.


    What makes the rest of the world laugh is that Americans are unable and incapable of fixing their firearms problem.
    You complain that you have guns to protect you from a corrupt (rather than Tyranical) government and yet, the NRA fuels that corruption.
    And down the conspiracy rabbit hole we go
    Yes I am an agent of Satan, but my duties are largely ceremonial.

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    Very well said.

    How do you guys handle political dissent? I'm assuming there's not the bitter hatred between parties like it is here? That's kind of a new thing, BTW...

    Used to be you could sit down, talk, and agree to disagree... Now people are divorcing, telling off friends, etc. Too much doublespeak. The running joke here, is that Trump could cure cancer, and the left would be complaining that they 'lost the right to get cancer if they wanted it'.... There are definitely idiots on both sides over here..

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    Quote Originally Posted by technoweenie View Post
    Very well said.

    How do you guys handle political dissent? I'm assuming there's not the bitter hatred between parties like it is here? That's kind of a new thing, BTW...

    ..............................
    Sadly we're getting there pretty quickly IMO......the lure of power at ANY cost is just too great. Toxicity rises.
    The fact that there's a highway to hell and a stairway to heaven says a lot about the anticipated traffic flow.

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