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Thread: Faster than light travel

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    It might be more of a case in non relativistic terms.... you can travel at 20kph, and you can travel at 60kph. But you cannot travel at 40kph. So how do you get from 20 to 60 without going through 40?

    Rather than folding space, what if you folded time?
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    Some people have some complicated understandings in their heads. Light is but an electromagnetic pulse .Pulses don't accellerate or stop . They are on for a time and off for a time. A slowed down version is radio waves which are on then off at radio frequencies if you need to visualise .

    If I travel at light speed why would you expect that time would be in any way different ? If I travel 300,000 klms it will take me 1 second . Everything else will have experienced the passage of 1 second also . I will not have swelled up . I will not have exploded . All will be the same except that 1 second has passed

    Scientists and Physicists need funding to be able to engross themselves in their favourite passtimes at your expense so they put out elaborate theories that are meant to confuse you . Don't be fooled.

    I do not see any impediment to travelling faster than the speed of light just as we travel faster than the speed of sound . It is just a constant speed defined by our most important sense , our eyes because it started from distinguishing between light and dark and progressed from there. Light is everywhere or it is not . It is only logical that living things develope abilities to see it.

    Light is not the important thing here . It is just a natural speed at which it travels from our sun and others. What we will see forward , reverse and sideways as we speed along at twice the speed of light is far more intriguing.
    Last edited by tytower; 06-03-15 at 08:48 PM.
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    If I travel at light speed why would you expect that time would be in any way different ?
    The reason is the speed of light itself. It's an absolute limit.


    It's time to reconsider what you do not understand. The simplified formula for relativity is E=mc^2. The actual formula has a lot more to it, but you will see this version.

    We can use this formula to work out how much energy we need to move something, but we find as we move it faster it becomes harder to accelerate it as we approach the speed of light.
    If you don't understand these formulas, then it's time to learn what they mean. They're well established and demonstrable.

    I do not see any impediment to travelling faster than the speed of light just as we travel faster than the speed of sound.
    These two things are very different. No ;the speed of light is not defined by our eyes, it's defined by the motion of photons relative to other particles.

    It is only logical that living things develope abilities to see it.
    You mean like an earth worm? Or an oyster? What about a mushroom? For two billion years life on this planet didn't have eyes.

    What we will see forward , reverse and sideways as we speed along at twice the speed of light is far more intriguing.
    Well, that's pretty simple. You won't see anything behind you. It will be black since photons cannot catch up to you.
    Everything in front of you will be blueshifted provided we don't have to take relativity into account.
    If we did the would only be a distorted ring of shifted light, so of looking at a rainbow ring in the direction of travel.
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    Quote Originally Posted by trash View Post
    We can use this formula to work out how much energy we need to move something, but we find as we move it faster it becomes harder to accelerate it as we approach the speed of light.
    If you don't understand these formulas, then it's time to learn what they mean. They're well established and demonstrable.

    I did two years of a three year "pure" physics degree at JCU and never agreed with this theory and never found a lecturer who could demonstrate its truth .(Don't do the "pure" rant again ,I have read that ) If you believe you are better than them, go right ahead and offer tangible proof ! When you presume to know everything you make yourself nothing but a laughable fool. I went to and completed a law degree after that as at least it was based on sound case law as variable and
    manipulable as it in fact is . It is not based on fiction . Energy is supposed to be equal to mass times a really big number because the atomic bomb puts out a lot of energy . Whats a really big number ? Oh the speed of light squared will do !

    These two things are very different. No ;the speed of light is not defined by our eyes, it's defined by the motion of photons relative to other particles.

    Where did that come from?

    You mean like an earth worm? Or an oyster? What about a mushroom? For two billion years life on this planet didn't have eyes.
    You are intentionally contradictary. Eyes started from cells that could detect light from dark as you ought to know ! Fungi and plants all have cells that detect and thrive on light. Put an earthworm in the sunlight and watch it react

    Well, that's pretty simple. You won't see anything behind you. It will be black since photons cannot catch up to you.
    Everything in front of you will be blueshifted provided we don't have to take relativity into account.
    If we did the would only be a distorted ring of shifted light, so of looking at a rainbow ring in the direction of travel.

    We would be travelling with a 360 degree view . I refered to the more interesting views to the sides rather than ahead and behind but consider the cosmic rays that supposedly travel faster than light . They would be slowed down in the behind view ans sped up forward -quarks , muons,tachyons and any particals that might be travelling ftl may appear slowed to visible light speed.Its an interesting thought . People are working on possible ftl travel at nasa right now
    Normally I would post these types of comments in red but it did not give me that choice in my editor hence the increased size.No offence is intended by that.
    Last edited by tytower; 20-03-15 at 09:03 AM.
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    Again with the "pure" physics? Do you hear that laugher in the distance?
    You really shouldn't say that because it makes you look really stupid in several ways. And we're trying to take you seriously and answer correctly the questions you're asking.

    Where did the speed of light come from? You can measure it. There's plenty of ways of doing that. The simplest is with a good CRO and a piece of wire.
    Or any time base instrument and a light emitter like an LED and a nice fast PIN photo diode.

    The experiment is simple enough. Have an LED turn on and off at a known rate. The beam of light is then split. One beam goes to the detector, the other covers a known distance to a mirror and is then reflected back to the PIN diode detector. Depending on how good your timing source is or how fast your cro is, you can measure the time difference in a number of ways.
    Most people don't have nanosecond CRO, so they have to use a longer distance out to the mirror and back. Instead of an LED a semiconductor laser is a little better for the task.
    So on my cro I can easily measure the pulse out to about a kilometre. It takes about 7 microseconds to do the round trip off a road sign about that far away.

    With simple primary school maths, if it takes 7 mirosceonds to cover 1km out and 1km back (2km) then this about 300 metres per microsecond or 3x10^8 metres per second.
    And there are thousands of other examples everywhere. The length of antenna elements, fault finding with TDR's. GPS relies on knowing this with even greater precision.

    Sorry Tytower, but the speed of light is known, it's a constant and it's proven beyond doubt. But science is always willing to listen to a crazy idea if you have evidence to suggest otherwise.
    However, the burden of proof is on you.

    but consider the cosmic rays that supposedly travel faster than light
    But cosmic rays don't travel faster than the speed of light. Nothing travels faster than the speed of light. Unless of course there is something you know that the rest of the universe doesn't?

    Quarks and muons don't travel faster than the speed of light. Tachyons by their definition are particles that do. But Tachyons don't exist. they aren't real. It's like suggesting the flying spaghetti monster can travel faster than the speed of light.

    There are plenty of people thinking about FTL travel, but there isn't anybody who thinks it's actually possible yet.
    If you think otherwise, everybody is keen to hear it.


    Normally I would post these types of comments in red
    .
    There's no need to do that. It just makes you look silly. We're quite capable of reading what you type in a normal black font at a normal size.
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    I was listening to a podcast today and I was listening to something about the Fizeau Experiment.
    This was a guy who was first to accurately measure the speed of light. He did it in the 1850's.
    I thought, that's interesting. If I had no electricity, how would I measure the speed of light. I thought, maybe a spinning disk with slots cut in it and shine sunlight through it to a mirror some distance away and then look through the spinning disk at the light coming back.

    And that's pretty much what he did, though the distance of about 10km across Paris which in itself is kind of amazing.
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    OK so i don't bother with trash's stuff its just a constant get the last word barrage of exactly that . trash.

    Saw an interesting hypothesis on near light speed travel and its effect on space in its vicinity here:-


    I liked the following excerpt especially :-
    In other words, if relativistic spacecraft are zipping across interstellar space, this kind of signature should be visible using the current generation of astrophysical observatories.

    That’s an interesting piece of work that takes the analysis of relativistic space travel to a new level. Other researchers have explored the possibility of observing relativistic spacecraft using the optical emissions that their engines must generate. But Yurtsever and Wilkinson go further.

    Of course, they make a number of assumptions, not least of which is that relativistic space travel is possible at all. Indeed, should some advanced civilization make this kind of jump into the cosmos, the interaction with the cosmic photons is likely to be the least of their problems since a collision with matter would be much more damaging.

    Yurtsever and Wilkinson provide some numbers to put this in context. For a spacecraft travelling close to the speed of light, the impact with a single cosmic dust grain with a mass of 10^-(14) grams would have an impact energy close to 10,000 megajoules.

    Intergalactic space is relatively clear of debris but even still, any relativistic spacecraft would need a way of clearing its path.

    Food for thought for potential cosmonauts.
    Interesting because light shows the behaviour of an electromagnetic wave and also a "particle" but light is not hindered in any way by passage through space?
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    I think that the most difficult thing about exceeding light speed is the fact that matter is made up of atomic and sub-atomic particles that all move at a set momentum and they cannot ever exceed that momentum. This is where relativism comes in. If a particle is travelling at a fixed momentum, then it cannot change that speed unless our old friend Newton comes into play. "For every action, there is an equal, and opposite reaction". Basically, we need to push against something to accelerate to a particular momentum. What happens when we he have nothing to "push against"?

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    Back to your old ways Tytower?
    You're given an answer to the question you ask but when it isn't the answer you want hear you get upset like it's some personal vendetta by me or the universe against you.
    I'll give you a hint, it's not me.
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    The reason I won;t bother with trash's rubbish is this question of light particals and waves seems to always attract conflicting views and people with some rote knowledge express opinions but have never done the thing themself.

    You can only express foolish conclusions if you have never done something yourself.

    here is an example of what goes on
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    Back to the business of black masses.
    Cosmologists are certainly in a state of flux now , one might even say panic as they look for more information on black holes (black masses) out there . One in each galaxy is accepted now as being the basic premis.
    The below article shows again that many are working on this now but they still get it wrong .



    in this case the gas blown out of the galaxy’s inner regions will eventually strip the galaxy of the ingredients for future star growth
    I dont think this is the case as as far out as any particals might go there is nothing in the immediate surrounds of the galaxy so they must fall back in . Light and cosmic rays , RF, Xray etc can all escape and do but anything with a mass must fall back
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    From this post there is something new in the hunt.



    I particularly noticed this litle bit
    The observatory is made up of 300 tanks each holding 50,000 gallons (190,000 liters) of pure water, as well as detectors capable of sensing and recording Chernakov radiation, a flash of light made up of charged particles produced when they impact the tanks after coming through Earth atmosphere slightly faster than the speed of light.
    My Health , my Family and my Property are not Government business. Governments should do what they were designed to do . Govern the issues that are best done by a central body in the country to protect it from foreign invasion.State Governments and Local Councils should be abolished to stop the duplication and waste of funds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tytower View Post
    You can only express foolish conclusions if you have never done something yourself.

    here is an example of what goes on
    Come on Tytower, we know you've never measured the speed of light or done any experiments.
    I'm trying to work out what you're trying to say by referencing a link which tries to say something about wave/particle duality but then doesn't actually explain anything.
    Did you write it? Have you read the replies to the blog?
    Have you noticed that the replies are all very similar to responses I give to you. That's an interesting co-incidence wouldn't you say?

    I've said it before, I treat all of your posts like you've never said something stupid before. They are all treated like you're trying to make a serious point.
    But when somebody (not just me) explains something to you that you don't like the answer to, you get upset at that person, and then wonder why they make fun of you.
    It's a common theme, you've even been kicked off other forums because of it. Now I admit I laugh at what people say about you behind your back, but I've told them that I will continue to debate topics with you on subjects like this because it looks like (sometimes) you're trying to learn something new.
    While somebody is trying to learn, I never make fun of them. But when they make silly claims about what they "learned" then I'm going to let loose with the jokes.
    And this doesn't reflect in any way on honest mistakes. Everybody makes mistakes, it's the ability to be able to recognise and correct them that is important.

    So while you think I'm wrong and can't seriously debate the subject you want to know more about, you're really not learning anything.


    So here's a URL to Astronomy Cast Podcasts.



    These three podcasts are about this very subject and they are written specifically to explain astronomy, cosmology and physics to ordinary people like you.
    Though I will point out in ep370 she makes a mistake confusing Alpha and Beta particles.
    If I email them about it, like I said above, I can see it's an honest mistake. She knows what an alpha particle and a beta particle are but just confused them in that part of the podcast.


    I dont think this is the case as as far out as any particals might go there is nothing in the immediate surrounds of the galaxy so they must fall back in . Light and cosmic rays , RF, Xray etc can all escape and do but anything with a mass must fall back.
    The particles you speak of don't fall back because they have enough velocity to escape the gravity of the galaxy. This is no different to shooting a bullet from the earth into the sky.

    Ignoring atmospheric drag, if the bullet does not exceed the escape velocity of the earth, then the bullet will fall back to the ground.
    If the bullet does have enough escape velocity it will go into orbit around the Earth. If it has even more velocity it will be able to escape the earth's gravity all together, and go into orbit around the sun.
    It requires even more energy again to escape the sun's gravitational pull and leave the solar system, at which point it will go into it's own orbit around the galaxy's center of mass.

    Again, it requires even more energy to escape the galaxy's gravity. But once that is achieved, provided it does not interact with something else, our bullet will continue off out into the universe forever. Though it may still need even more velocity to escape the gravitational pull of the virgo supercluster.
    If it does not encounter any more large gravitational fields of galaxies it might pass by, It will at such time start acquiring it's own acceleration away from all the other objects in the universe because of dark energy.
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    Have you been listening to the science show on ABC radio national Tytower.
    Some more interesting news with a theory of some black hole formation.

    Typically we know that black holes form when a large star collapses to form a stellar black hole.
    Supermassive black holes are thought to be early stellar black holes that have grown by consuming large amounts of matter, we see these as quasars in the early universe.

    And that's pretty much it. there is another type of black hole that is thought to exist. A primordial black hole, but there isn't much evidence to suggest they exist and even less to suggest how they might form.
    The article on the science show was about a theory of how they might form from a gas cloud without going through stellar evolution.

    The gas cloud forming an accretion disk and then forming a gravitational bar causing a high energy particles to plough through the central mass of the cloud.
    It's not a lot different to what happens with stars in a barred galaxy. The question is, is there enough gas and energy to cause neutron degeneracy and a core collapse of the cloud.
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    Quote Originally Posted by trash View Post
    It might be more of a case in non relativistic terms.... you can travel at 20kph, and you can travel at 60kph. But you cannot travel at 40kph. So how do you get from 20 to 60 without going through 40?

    Rather than folding space, what if you folded time?
    I thought up a mind game for you guys.


    Speed is always measured in relation to another object's speed.
    We don't really know what zero speed is.
    If I am travelling near light speed I might as well say everything around me is moving near light speed, I am standing still.
    and remember if we observe something getting close to light speed it's time related properties (timeframe) also appears to slow down, red shift, etc
    until it hypothetically reaches C and all stands still, well actually end of time, the universe and everything.


    So what if the true definition of Zero Speed was actually this un-achievable light speed C
    and there was a universe called the Dark Universe where everybody thinks they are standing still at 2C relative to us.
    From our perspective they would need to decelerate to light speed, but for them that is still an acceleration and we would be the ones moving at 2C.


    There was never a transition through the speed of light because this Dark Universe was created from Dark Energy and Dark Matter
    at the speed 2C relative to our definition of standing still in OUR universe.


    An Anti-Universe that can only show itself to us through gravitational effects.


    ! gnorw ma I EVORP esaelP

    also some answers might be found here, if you look closely:
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    Quote Originally Posted by nomeat View Post
    If I am travelling near light speed I might as well say everything around me is moving near light speed, I am standing still.
    YES.

    You didn't make this game any fun at all. That's relativity 101
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    Thats the relative part of relativity, "Relative to the observer"
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    Wait I am not finished just there, relativity is only used to explain 2C.


    So would you still agree that it is plausible that we could be all moving roughly at 2C relative to something that was created
    at that speed, what we obviously can't see but appears to exist, maybe in form of dark matter?


    There could be nothing beyond 2C because this "reversed" universe also only can only have the range between an assumed zero and C.
    Of course we could never get to this "dark side" not even through a worm hole.


    However the dark universe would be decelerating(for us) and we may be accelerating towards the immense gravity of it's origin, while it
    is catching up with our past heading towards the gravity force of our singularity before the big bang.


    If totally NOT plausible, explain why.
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    So there are a couple of problems here.
    What are the relative masses at these multiples of C.
    0, 0.5, 1, 1.5, 2, 3,4,5,6,7,8,9 and 10 ?

    Next, how do you know which multiple of C you sit on?

    Then if there is a hyperspeed existence, how does something get accelerated to 2C without passing through 1C ?

    Then there is the interaction of dark matter with real matter and other dark matter.
    It can't interact gravitationally at >C.

    Then there is the small matter of 2C matter interacting with 2C matter travelling in the opposite direction.

    It's not looking good for this theory.
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    While we are talking about matter, it;s all a matter of mind over matter, I don't mind, and you don't matter!

    Seriously though, trash you make a good point Newton would still apply at whatever speed you travel, if you hit something going in the opposite direction it's going to make a bloody big bang..........oh! Shit! We've just made another universe.........

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