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Thread: Faster than light travel

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    gamote has got me thinking rather hard about this one.
    Space tells matter how to move and matter tells space how to curve.

    Energy and matter are interchangeable. So gamote's statement that matter and energy are the same thing holds weight.
    I'm trying to consider somewhere in the universe where energy density is so high (without matter) that it causes space to bend around that point.
    Gμν=8πGTμν Quantum Gravity .. this shit hurts my brain. Trying to understand something as simple as a photon as a tensor.

    I can't think of anywhere like that to test if it is true or not. Photons don't have any volume so a point in space can achieve a high energy.
    And I can think of all kinds of scenarios why this can't happen (you already mentioned one), but there is one exception.

    A black hole. Or more correctly a singularity. It fits that description. We can think of photons falling into a black hole that consumes no matter.
    The black hole grows because it is being fed "something".

    I would say I'm in error and gamote is correct. It certainly looks possible, just not practical.
    I can't even think of a small scale example (anything less than a black hole) to prove it.

    As a thought I considered how much energy is in the universe, not counting what is locked up in matter. What is the equivalent mass of all the energy?
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    Quote Originally Posted by trash View Post
    gamote has got me thinking rather hard about this one.
    Space tells matter how to move and matter tells space how to curve.

    Energy and matter are interchangeable. So gamote's statement that matter and energy are the same thing holds weight.
    I'm trying to consider somewhere in the universe where energy density is so high (without matter) that it causes space to bend around that point.
    Yes, that's the gist of it... A very tricky problem... so tricky and so nonlinear that can only be solved in special easy cases.

    Quote Originally Posted by trash View Post
    Gμν=8πGTμν Quantum Gravity .. this shit hurts my brain. Trying to understand something as simple as a photon as a tensor.
    Well, that equation is "classical" in the sense that none knows how to quantize it: it is not only your brain hurting, it is the collective scientific mind aching so badly. But as you said, Tμν is the energy-stress tensor, and you see it is a source for the curvature of the space-time.

    Quote Originally Posted by trash View Post
    I can't think of anywhere like that to test if it is true or not. Photons don't have any volume so a point in space can achieve a high energy.
    And I can think of all kinds of scenarios why this can't happen (you already mentioned one), but there is one exception.
    Well, if you think of one, we can make some business together ;-) But interestingly this is one of those problems where the classical equations hit their limitations: Einstein equations are classical, but if you hit them with a high energy electromagnetic field, you start creating particle-antiparticle pairs, which inherently is a quantum effect... tricky

    Quote Originally Posted by trash View Post
    A black hole. Or more correctly a singularity. It fits that description. We can think of photons falling into a black hole that consumes no matter.
    The black hole grows because it is being fed "something".
    Well, that is the essence of the black-hole paradox, which was at least partially solved by Hawking's radiation..

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    Quote Originally Posted by gamote View Post
    Well, that is the essence of the black-hole paradox, which was at least partially solved by Hawking's radiation..
    It was leading me down that path, but I stopped myself.

    Hawking Radiation is logical enough, but the paradox is the ducks guts of it. Partial solution, hehehe... It's fuel on the fire literally.

    Setting the stage for the thought experiment, we have our black hole and a set of scales.

    We throw a proton in and the black hole's mass increases by 1 amu
    We throw in a neutrino and the black hole's mass increases by 0.0005 amu
    We throw in a photon increases the mass of the black hole by ~3x10^-25 amu

    now for the interesting part ... we throw in a positron. Does the mass increase or decrease by 0.0005 amu.
    If information is conserved, then the black hole will evaporate via hawking radiation. The universe ends in the big freeze.
    However
    If information is not conserved, then the black hole will be fed by hawking radiation and continue to grow.
    I could spend the next few days describing all the violations this appears to cause and more plays on logic to cover all the bases.

    The main one that gets my attention is trying to not see a one way system the same as a destruction of information.
    The information is lost to us, but not destroyed. It is just not every recoverable but it still exists trapped in the singularity.
    The evidence for this would be that the presence of the black hole still exists even though what has fallen in is technically gone. (I sounds like cosmological homeopathy)

    It might also go some way to describing what we see with supermassive black holes. (Tytower is missing out on this one).
    We can look back to the first billion years of the universe and see quasars, supermassive black holes feeding. The issue is of course, how did these black holes get so big so quickly?

    We then consider the missing antimatter that we assume should exist in the universe. If antimatter is additive to a black hole's mass, then we might be able to account for the SMBH's.
    But sadly, they're only about 15% of the visible mass of the universe. And then we might assume half the mass 7% is antimatter.
    Or, even if we consider the wildly optimistic case of an antimatter black hole, into which ordinary matter then falls.

    That becomes fun, if we flip back to hawking radiation evaporating black holes, can an antimatter black hole form and does hawking radiation cause it to evaporate?

    The problem is the harder we look at it, the harder it gets to understand. But it's fun to think about it.
    If I can think of an experiment to test it all, I'll cut ya in
    Yes I am an agent of Satan, but my duties are largely ceremonial.

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    Trash, have you met your clone from a future????
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    Double but can't delete
    Last edited by tytower; 01-04-17 at 03:10 AM.
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    I wonder if this is the lighthouse of faster than light space travel ?



    I
    f the X-ray source was caused by a GRB triggered by the merger of neutron star with a black hole or another neutron star, then gravitational waves would also have been produced. . If such an event were to occur closer to Earth, it may be detectable with the Laser Interferometer Gravitational-Wave Observatory (LIGO).
    My Health , my Family and my Property are not Government business. Governments should do what they were designed to do . Govern the issues that are best done by a central body in the country to protect it from foreign invasion.State Governments and Local Councils should be abolished to stop the duplication and waste of funds.

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    OK, reboot, dark matter, which has been mentioned a few times in this post, for the latest theory
    There is a fine line between "Hobby" and "Madness"

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    Quote Originally Posted by porkop View Post
    Trash, have you met your clone from a future????
    Matter time travel isn't possible, but information time travel is possible.
    My evidence is that Skynet is trying to kill me.

    It can't send a terminator back to get me, but it is trying to kill me in other ways.
    My GPS trying to get me to do left turns on the Great Ocean road or telling me to "turn back when possible" on the M2.
    There seems to be a lot of technology out there trying to kill me, it's obviously not a coincidence.
    Yes I am an agent of Satan, but my duties are largely ceremonial.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tytower View Post
    I wonder if this is the lighthouse of faster than light space travel ?



    I
    Nope.
    Nothing here to indicate anything traveling faster than light.
    By the nature of the X-ray burst the structure is large. This is most likely a neutron star or white dwarf compact stellar remnant being ripped apart by a supermassive black hole.

    Opps, reading on through the article, they're drawing the same conclusions.
    Nothing to add here then... no faster than light happening here. Keep trying.
    Yes I am an agent of Satan, but my duties are largely ceremonial.

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    Quote Originally Posted by allover View Post
    OK, reboot, dark matter, which has been mentioned a few times in this post, for the latest theory

    Well if that is the current state then the post below shows some big holes in it . Grounds for saying this expansion /dark energy proposition is just pure fantasy / bunkum.

    My Health , my Family and my Property are not Government business. Governments should do what they were designed to do . Govern the issues that are best done by a central body in the country to protect it from foreign invasion.State Governments and Local Councils should be abolished to stop the duplication and waste of funds.

    To defeat corruption in the public service , give them three times the penalty. Have them agree on hiring.

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    I think Tytower might have been sucked into a black hole, he's not coming back

    Anyhow, I have an update for this little problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by trash View Post
    Setting the stage for the thought experiment, we have our black hole and a set of scales.

    We throw a proton in and the black hole's mass increases by 1 amu
    We throw in a neutrino and the black hole's mass increases by 0.0005 amu
    We throw in a photon increases the mass of the black hole by ~3x10^-25 amu

    now for the interesting part ... we throw in a positron. Does the mass increase or decrease by 0.0005 amu.
    Hawking radiation is not about matter falling into a Black hole. It's about energy which is of course interchangeable with matter.
    E=mc˛ as we all know.

    The next part is pair production. A quantum concept which basically says that empty space can create matter. It does this by borrowing energy from the universe. The more energy borrowed, the faster you have to pay it back.

    So this brings us the quantum accounting. If for example we borrow 1.022MeV from the universe and use it to create a positron-electron pair, Then we owe the universe -1.022MeV and we have to pay it back within a few nanoseconds. But if in that time, one of the electrons crosses an event horizon and is captured by a black hole, there is no coming back. A positron 0.511MeV now exists in the real universe and the universe wants it's 1.022MeV back and the only way it can get this negative Energy back is by taking mass from the black hole which becomes 0.511MeV lighter. The other 0.511Mev now exists as a free positron.

    It does not matter if matter or antimatter falls in.
    -E=-mc˛
    If -1/2E falls in, the -1/2m is inside the hole and mass is conserved.

    The charge of the blackhole is also conserved.


    It's rather amusing that hawking radiation also appears in economics.
    If you rob a bank and escape, but then you're get away car catches fire and the money is burned to ash. What happened to the value of the money?
    This information is conserved just like it is in the universe.

    You can't get the money back, it's gone, so where did the value go?
    The bank lost a dollar, you lost a dollar which you never actually had. You can never pay the bank back But the magic part is, the government gains a dollar.
    Since the government created the dollar as a form of negative currency. A bank note is a loan by another name. The government promises to pay this value back to the holder of the note. But if you no long have the note, then the government never has to pay it back and it is now richer, by a dollar.
    The account book is balanced.
    Yes I am an agent of Satan, but my duties are largely ceremonial.

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