Page 9 of 10 FirstFirst 12345678910 LastLast
Results 161 to 180 of 186

Thread: Life and times of a black hole

  1. #161
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    283
    Thanks
    9
    Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts
    Rep Power
    131
    Reputation
    98

    Default

    This I found interesting but puzzling . "Any schoolboy can estimate the size of a black mass at the center of each galaxy."
    They make no mention of galaxies with two or more black masses (barred) in them but I suppose you can just assume the mass estimated is halved

    "Anyone can now look at an image of a spiral galaxy and immediately gauge how massive its black hole should be."
    "This implies that black holes and the discs of their host galaxies must co-evolve," says Dr Davis.
    "Importantly, the relation will also help searches for the suspected, but currently missing, population of intermediate-mass black holes with masses between 100 and 100,000 times the mass of our Sun. Difficult to pin down, they have masses greater than that of any single star, but are smaller than the supermassive black holes which grow to billions of times the mass of our Sun in giant galaxies," Prof Graham says.


    Its good to see that the "scientists" seem to have finally accepted the theory that each galaxy has at least one black mass at its center and the whole system is run by gravity. Now I just have to get through to them the idea that it expands and contracts regularly over billions of years and I will be home and hosed!
    Last edited by tytower; 21-07-17 at 08:44 AM.
    My Health , my Family and my Property are not Government business. Governments should do what they were designed to do . Govern the issues best done by a central body in the country.

    To defeat corruption in the public service , give them three times the penalty. Have them agree on hiring.



  • #162
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    283
    Thanks
    9
    Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts
    Rep Power
    131
    Reputation
    98

    Default

    Not many supernova have been observed to date . Below is a link to a discussion about one extra bright supernova that happened 10 Billion years ago.
    My interest is that it is very far away and very bright and I wonder if it just might be the the central supermassive black mass of a galaxy exploding as part of its galacy's continuing evolution from very dense to very widely distributed but still gravitationally together as a galaxy. Now all falling back together .

    Last edited by tytower; 22-07-17 at 08:43 AM.
    My Health , my Family and my Property are not Government business. Governments should do what they were designed to do . Govern the issues best done by a central body in the country.

    To defeat corruption in the public service , give them three times the penalty. Have them agree on hiring.

  • #163
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    283
    Thanks
    9
    Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts
    Rep Power
    131
    Reputation
    98

    Default

    I find it unfortunate though that people are wasting good money studying what they can't see and can't identify and probably does not exist despite their assurances that it does. May as well be chasing ghosts and apparitions.

    My Health , my Family and my Property are not Government business. Governments should do what they were designed to do . Govern the issues best done by a central body in the country.

    To defeat corruption in the public service , give them three times the penalty. Have them agree on hiring.

  • #164
    LSemmens
    lsemmens's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Rural South OZ
    Posts
    6,199
    Thanks
    4,805
    Thanked 3,204 Times in 1,621 Posts
    Rep Power
    1385
    Reputation
    55340

    Default

    Interesting that they show pictures of cold-dark matter. I wonder how much time and effort it took to take those piccies. I reckon I could have given them a hundred piccies at a fraction of the cost in time and money. Heck, I'll even use my own camera to take the photos of the cold-dark matter sitting across the room from me now. (If I suddenly disappear - you know she got me )
    I'm out of my mind, but feel free to leave a message...

  • #165
    Senior Member
    trash's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Tamworth
    Posts
    3,173
    Thanks
    107
    Thanked 1,928 Times in 897 Posts
    Rep Power
    660
    Reputation
    21654

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tytower View Post
    This I found interesting but puzzling . "Any schoolboy can estimate the size of a black mass at the center of each galaxy."
    They make no mention of galaxies with two or more black masses (barred) in them but I suppose you can just assume the mass estimated is halved
    The reason they do not mention barred spiral galaxies in particular is simply because it has no relationship to the central mass of the galaxy.
    Instead you've jumped to this conclusion. What is your evidence to suggest that barred galaxies have two central black holes?
    <I suspect we won't see an answer from Tytower.>

    Its good to see that the "scientists" seem to have finally accepted the theory that each galaxy has at least one black mass at its center and the whole system is run by gravity.
    You make it sound like you came up with this concept first and it is only now that they agree with you personally.
    Reality is that science proposes a theory and looks for evidence to support it before it makes the claim to being true or a close match for reality.

    Tytower proposes a theory and waits for evidence to agree with him and then claims the universe is copying him. When evidence doesn't agree with him, he ignores it.

    Now I just have to get through to them the idea that it expands and contracts regularly over billions of years and I will be home and hosed!
    What is not lacking here Tytower is your motivation or self confidence (maybe too much, but I'm not going to pour cold water on your enthusiasm).
    What is lacking is just cold hard evidence. You have absolutely none. This is a common thing with your posts. Misquoting and misunderstanding, serial lack of evidence has built a lack of credibility.

    Lets consider your next claim...
    ...it just might be the the central supermassive black mass of a galaxy exploding
    It might also be magic pixies. You will notice that my magic pixie claim has the same amount of evidence to support it as your 'exploding black hole' claim. None.
    Would you care to elaborate on how and by what mechanism a black hole can explode?

    I find it unfortunate though that people are wasting good money studying what they can't see and can't identify and probably does not exist despite their assurances that it does. May as well be chasing ghosts and apparitions.
    Are you running for the office of Pope? Because this kind of statement wouldn't even float in the 18th century let alone the 21st.

    What Tytower is saying is.... "If you don't know what something is, or why something happens then don't bother trying to understand or discover what causes it.

    This ISN'T how science is done, it's how a cult is run.
    Worse is when the cult leader claims that he knew the answers all along and nobody listened to him. It is science conspiring against him.
    Or rather that his claims were so weak and meaningless that they could be twisted to support any position he takes in the future.
    Yes I am an agent of Satan, but my duties are largely ceremonial.

  • #166
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    283
    Thanks
    9
    Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts
    Rep Power
    131
    Reputation
    98

    Default


    In a galaxy, stars are bound together: a large collection of stars orbiting a common center of mass. After the Big Bang 14 billion years ago, the universe was filled with a uniform gas -- no stars, no galaxies. But there were tiny perturbations in the gas, and these started to grow by force of gravity, eventually forming stars and galaxies. After galaxies formed, each had its own identity.

    Hmm just seems far fetched..Before the big bang ..nothing ..after ,a big mass of gas.
    Then "tiny pertubations" Whaaat? where did they come from then , what causes those ?

    Just does not wash with me . It should be recognised for the fill in it is because they just don't know. Wish they would dispense with the TRASH and get on with the real discovery.

    Half the matter is from outside the galaxy . Nah don't think so. Mind you there are some people who may have some strange stuff in them
    Last edited by tytower; 28-07-17 at 07:57 PM.
    My Health , my Family and my Property are not Government business. Governments should do what they were designed to do . Govern the issues best done by a central body in the country.

    To defeat corruption in the public service , give them three times the penalty. Have them agree on hiring.

  • #167
    Senior Member
    trash's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Tamworth
    Posts
    3,173
    Thanks
    107
    Thanked 1,928 Times in 897 Posts
    Rep Power
    660
    Reputation
    21654

    Default

    Sorry Tytower, but that is the best fit description for what is observed in the universe. It even has a name.*
    Evidence points to a starting point.

    It's also clear from your statement that you do not understand how a random situation cannot give rise to a substantial event.
    This process is happening everywhere in the universe. From a fog here on earth to molecular clouds through out the galaxies forming asteriods, planets and stars and down to ice crystals forming in your coke bottle

    If one molecule is closer to another by nothing but pure chance then electrostatic attraction (or repulsion) adds up at first. Gravity acts very slowly on a small scale, but that situation snowballs exponentially. Given the large time periods, there is plenty of time for "The butterfly effect"* to contribute to big things.

    Hmm just seems far fetched..Before the big bang ..nothing ..after ,a big mass of gas.
    Nobody disagrees with you that it is far fetched, but that is what the evidence suggests. It causes us to ask more questions, almost all of which seem to elude your methods of thinking.
    If you've got a better (or any) explanation I'd like to hear it. We'd all like to hear it.
    But it needs to make sense and it needs to fit observation. Else you're just another crackpot wearing a tin foil hat who thinks he knows the secrets of the universe.
    Yes I am an agent of Satan, but my duties are largely ceremonial.

  • The Following User Says Thank You to trash For This Useful Post:

    tristen (26-09-17)

  • #168
    Senior Member
    trash's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Tamworth
    Posts
    3,173
    Thanks
    107
    Thanked 1,928 Times in 897 Posts
    Rep Power
    660
    Reputation
    21654

    Default

    myself:
    If you've got a better (or any) explanation I'd like to hear it. We'd all like to hear it.
    Let me give you another example Tytower.
    I have a friend who is somebody I consider to be a smart person and smarter than me on some subjects I know well.
    My friend knows a lot about astronomy, physics, electronics and of course he loves cosmology. However .... he has what can only be terms as non-conventional views of cosmology.
    His ideas are not too different from the kinds of things Tytower says. However, he has the time, patience and skill to propose theories that require thought. His logic is based on real experiments, real evidence and as I say to him.... I have to go away and think really hard if they really make sense.
    At face value anybody with reasonable training in science can listen to his theories and think, "That makes a lot of sense." They don't sound like hair brained theories.

    I always give any theory benefit of the doubt. If it appears to make sense, then the best thing to do is not blindly accept it, but try and find fault with it.
    If I or anybody can't find fault with it, then it needs to be accepted or seriously considered.

    Last night's discussion was on cosmic expansion. My friend is not a believer in quantum physics. He says he's not conflicted by it, but I can demonstrate that it causes problems for his theories. I found myself getting sucked into his theory by giving him a benefit of the doubt and ignoring quantum physics. This is a mistake. It leads you down a hall of mirrors where you can no longer see that the who show required you to only make the first simple mistake.

    A is true. For at the be true, then B must not be true.
    If B is not true, then C is true. If C is true then D is true. I D is true then A is true.
    Therefore because A is true, B cannot be true. It's a logical fallacy. A leap of faith.

    Anyhow ... his theories are brain food.
    His theory last night attempts to explain cosmic red shift. This is something Tytower will love. He believes in a steady state universe.
    Again, I have no problem with it if you have evidence. That means explaining cosmic red shift that does not use expansion. His logic is that intergalactic hydrogen causes a kind of group delay. His logic of it makes sense in Newtonian terms. But he ignores QED Quantum Electro Dynamics. You got it... you have to ignore quantum physics for it to be true.
    And into the hall of mirrors we go.....

    Hydrogen absorbing and re-emitting photons causes them to recoil and this recoil is responsible for the dopler shift.
    Unfortunately this is not the case. Yes, Hydrogren can absorb photons, but only photons of specific frequencies. Hydrogren spectral lines.
    We would see different redshifts at different wavelengths. We don't. We see the same red shift across the entire spectrum.
    His description of how hydrogen atoms recoil is very convincing and it would be true, if only you make the leap of faith.

    A steady state universe explains a lot of observational problems with the universe. Except the really basic and important ones like entropy.
    I never ignore his theories(or anybody else's), some of them are good alternatives, but some of them are seriously flawed.
    In every case, they're good brain food.
    Yes I am an agent of Satan, but my duties are largely ceremonial.

  • #169
    LSemmens
    lsemmens's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Rural South OZ
    Posts
    6,199
    Thanks
    4,805
    Thanked 3,204 Times in 1,621 Posts
    Rep Power
    1385
    Reputation
    55340

    Default

    A is true. For at the be true, then B must not be true.
    If B is not true, then C is true. If C is true then D is true. I D is true then A is true.
    Therefore because A is true, B cannot be true. It's a logical fallacy
    this is not a logical fallacy at all. We are saying that if A is true then B must be any other state but true (logically = False) If B is not true then it follows that C & hence D are also true. If D is true then A must be true. It's only when A becomes NOT true that we run into a dilemma. because then B, may, or may NOT be True (i.e. B is now totally indeterminate). If B is indeterminate it therefore follows that all subsequent states, A included are also indeterminate. Unless of course we can logically conclude that if A is, in fact, indeterminate, then, and only then, B may be true, because we did not determine that B's state was determined by anything other than the fact that A is true. This is the logical fallacy.
    I'm out of my mind, but feel free to leave a message...

  • The Following User Says Thank You to lsemmens For This Useful Post:

    Tiny (01-08-17)

  • #170
    Senior Member
    trash's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Tamworth
    Posts
    3,173
    Thanks
    107
    Thanked 1,928 Times in 897 Posts
    Rep Power
    660
    Reputation
    21654

    Default

    Yes, that's correct.
    I think that's it. I was just being a bit too vague.
    Yes I am an agent of Satan, but my duties are largely ceremonial.

  • #171
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    283
    Thanks
    9
    Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts
    Rep Power
    131
    Reputation
    98

    Default

    Looks more and more like they are coming around to my way of thinking

    My Health , my Family and my Property are not Government business. Governments should do what they were designed to do . Govern the issues best done by a central body in the country.

    To defeat corruption in the public service , give them three times the penalty. Have them agree on hiring.

  • #172
    Senior Member
    trash's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Tamworth
    Posts
    3,173
    Thanks
    107
    Thanked 1,928 Times in 897 Posts
    Rep Power
    660
    Reputation
    21654

    Default

    How do you figure that Tytower?

    Can you give us a real world example that demonstrates understand what the article is talking about?
    Yes I am an agent of Satan, but my duties are largely ceremonial.

  • #173
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    283
    Thanks
    9
    Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts
    Rep Power
    131
    Reputation
    98

    Default

    This one is interesting in that they are suggesting that there might be 100 Million Black Masses in our galaxy , "The Milky Way" alone Many many more than expected .



    According to Kaplinghat, "If the current ideas about stellar evolution are right, then our calculations indicate that mergers of even 50-solar-mass black holes will be detected in a few years," he said.
    My Health , my Family and my Property are not Government business. Governments should do what they were designed to do . Govern the issues best done by a central body in the country.

    To defeat corruption in the public service , give them three times the penalty. Have them agree on hiring.

  • #174
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    283
    Thanks
    9
    Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts
    Rep Power
    131
    Reputation
    98

    Default

    This clown that keeps knocking this thread said it could never happen and now it has . Stick that in your pipe and smoke it .

    Black hole spewing out jets of matter

    My Health , my Family and my Property are not Government business. Governments should do what they were designed to do . Govern the issues best done by a central body in the country.

    To defeat corruption in the public service , give them three times the penalty. Have them agree on hiring.

  • #175
    Senior Member
    trash's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Tamworth
    Posts
    3,173
    Thanks
    107
    Thanked 1,928 Times in 897 Posts
    Rep Power
    660
    Reputation
    21654

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tytower View Post
    This clown that keeps knocking this thread said it could never happen and now it has . Stick that in your pipe and smoke it .

    Black hole spewing out jets of matter

    Lets get some shit straight Tytower .... I have made the complaint to the admins of this forum of your personal attacks aimed at me and you're doing it again.
    I'm making another formal public complaint to admin about your behaviour. I will not tolerate it further.

    Nobody is "knocking on this thread". You will notice what when you post something or say something that is correct or does not make some abstract or debatable claim then nothing is said or added to the correct comment.
    If you offer up something that is wrong or dubious or misleading then I have explained why you are wrong or asked you to explain why you think it is correct.
    We get no response from you other than to denigrate anybody who does not agree with your claims.

    Quote Originally Posted by mtv View Post
    Now knock it off, or infractions will follow.
    The same goes for you tytower.
    Both of you, get over it... and move on.
    How about it MTV ?
    I'm calling you to account for your words.
    Last edited by trash; 19-08-17 at 05:26 PM.
    Yes I am an agent of Satan, but my duties are largely ceremonial.

  • #176
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    283
    Thanks
    9
    Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts
    Rep Power
    131
    Reputation
    98

    Default

    Well now there is a bit of discussion going on about whether the universe is in fact expanding . Perhaps its just static as I expect?

    My Health , my Family and my Property are not Government business. Governments should do what they were designed to do . Govern the issues best done by a central body in the country.

    To defeat corruption in the public service , give them three times the penalty. Have them agree on hiring.

  • #177
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    283
    Thanks
    9
    Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts
    Rep Power
    131
    Reputation
    98

    Default

    For an interesting sojourn into the formation process of black masses the below link discusses raining diamonds on planets like Uranus.



    Just how these growing black masses "Hoyo Negro," accumulate such large mass ,big enough to firstly ignite the center in fusion to become a sun and then accumulate enough extra matter to become a black mass by retaining its own light , is just mind boggling .

    I'm thinking in fact that black masses must go through all these stages as they pass through their development.
    Our sun must have had an age where it rained diamonds too but there were no humans to see them and no light but starlight to see them with .

    "Hoyo Negro," means "black hole" in Spanish.
    Last edited by tytower; 28-08-17 at 09:12 PM.
    My Health , my Family and my Property are not Government business. Governments should do what they were designed to do . Govern the issues best done by a central body in the country.

    To defeat corruption in the public service , give them three times the penalty. Have them agree on hiring.

  • #178
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    283
    Thanks
    9
    Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts
    Rep Power
    131
    Reputation
    98

    Default

    Lazily doing a bit of cattle fencing the other day I thought a little more about the matter being ejected from black masses at the poles. See above for a link to what they now think is happening .

    If the black mass is able to release matter from its poles to keep some form of high heat ,high pressure balance then that matter is likely to come out in a pressurised very very hot plasma type stream. Perhaps a new type of stream further up the line from plasma that we don't know about yet because we cant see one and can't get the necessary conditions here on earth.

    That matter then as it flows away from the black mass would tend under its own gravity to then collapse and congregate in a round ball forming a visible sun which would look like any other star and would thus be indistinguishable . So we would not be able to determine their origin so they would just fit in with everything else in each galaxy.

    Indeed they could be occurring in the milky way ejected from our central black mass or masses and we would not know.

    It suggests to me that the galaxy then as a whole could be an ever existing body constantly pumping out new stars to replace old that are falling into the black mass and that a violent big bang type scenario in each galaxy might not be necessary..
    Last edited by tytower; 01-09-17 at 05:00 AM.
    My Health , my Family and my Property are not Government business. Governments should do what they were designed to do . Govern the issues best done by a central body in the country.

    To defeat corruption in the public service , give them three times the penalty. Have them agree on hiring.

  • #179
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    283
    Thanks
    9
    Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts
    Rep Power
    131
    Reputation
    98

    Default

    I don't agree with the below statements but it serves to show that the theorists still have no real idea whats going on with black masses.

    My Health , my Family and my Property are not Government business. Governments should do what they were designed to do . Govern the issues best done by a central body in the country.

    To defeat corruption in the public service , give them three times the penalty. Have them agree on hiring.

  • #180
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    283
    Thanks
    9
    Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts
    Rep Power
    131
    Reputation
    98

    Default

    There is definitely a coming realisation that material is moving in and around black masses and I am pleased that more and more support is coming to my belief of material continuously being ejected from the black mass's poles.



    "We now know," adds Cristina Ramos, "that this nuclear material is more complex and dynamic than we thought a few years ago: it is very compact, formed by gas and dusty clouds orbiting the black hole and its properties depend on the AGN luminosity and accretion rate. Moreover, it is not an isolated structure but appears connected with the galaxy via outflows and inflows of gas, like streams of material flowing as part of a cycle. This gas flow cycle keeps feeding the black hole and regulates the formation of new stars in the galaxy."
    My Health , my Family and my Property are not Government business. Governments should do what they were designed to do . Govern the issues best done by a central body in the country.

    To defeat corruption in the public service , give them three times the penalty. Have them agree on hiring.

  • Page 9 of 10 FirstFirst 12345678910 LastLast

    Bookmarks

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •