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Thread: Is this a normal way to do a fox install?

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    Junior Member sat_brat's Avatar
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    Default Is this a normal way to do a fox install?

    A friend of mine decided to upgrade from a standard sub to IQ. His original install only had one outlet in the room so I told him they will have to run a second feed in for the dual tuners in the IQ box.

    A few years back this mate asked me to help him get a better reception with his new digital set top box. His existing antenna and cable were old so rather that redo everything (some of the outlets were going to be very hard to re-cable) I simply bought him a new antenna and ran a RG6 directly from the antenna to the set top box, no splitter booster etc and it worked well. Left the existing antenna, cable etc to feed the rest of the house. When I did this I ran some ducts down the inside of his laundry for the cable as an easy way to get to the room, I reminded him of this and told him to show the installer because it would make a very easy path for him to install the second cable for the IQ.

    Well arrive our little installer, my mate shows him the cable path with ducting all ready in place making it nice an easy for him. He decides instead to cut the TV antenna coax near the fox dish put a splitter on, the fox dish and antenna now on the one cable. And then split it again inside the room one line to the TV and the second to the fox box.

    Now I could understand this as a last resort but this could not have been an easier cable run, ducting already in place and an existing cable to follow. Is this a common method installers use, would there be much of a loss in signal? Just seems a bit dodgy to me. He also installed an earthing kit, haven’t seen an installer do this before.

    Just curious
    Cheers
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    Maybe the old cable you left was not a high quality Sat wire and he refused to use it. You mentioned you ran a higher quality new wire to help his signal in he past.

    I dont see the problem with what he did if it was a difficult job to run a new line, however if it was easy to run another line he was a lazy bastard.

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    It's quite common, especially where it's difficult to run additional cables.

    The devices used at each end are diplexers, not splitters.

    They combine the FTA terrestrial frequencies and the satellite IF frequencies onto one cable. One is used to combine, the other used in reverse to separate the signals.

    Insertion loss is usually negligible.

    In this case, use of these diplexers would have probably saved the installer some time on the installation.

    Foxtel/Austar installers are paid very poorly and pressured to complete all jobs they have been allocated for the day, and 'fined' if they don't get through them all, regardless of what the problems may be, so it's quite likely he took the simplest/fastest way out to complete the job.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mtv View Post
    Foxtel/Austar installers are paid very poorly and pressured to complete all jobs they have been allocated for the day, and 'fined' if they don't get through them all, regardless of what the problems may be, so it's quite likely he took the simplest/fastest way out to complete the job.
    That's bloody disgraceful! That's no excuse for them to 'vandalise' and utilise your property for their profit!
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeroyPatrol View Post
    That's bloody disgraceful! That's no excuse for them to 'vandalise' and utilise your property for their profit!
    Yep.... it's tha fastest, cheapest method... but in the end, it all works fine and sometimes, it's the only way of doing it, where access to run cabling isn't possible, but in the OP's case, it sounds like it was an easy way out.

    I won't do a job like that unless it's impossible to install another cable.

    If sat_brat's friend isn't happy with the job, lodge a complaint with Foxtel.

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    The installer should show a bit of courtesy and discuss the installation with the house holder if there is an issue. Just out of curiosity, can you use a mast head amp with the power feed through those diplexers?

    I couldn't believe when I saw the Optus cable installer pushing out the metal vents on a mates brick home so he could run cables with his poker thingy instead of getting under the house. His comments were he wouldn't do the job otherwise. I didn't see him mudding back the vents either, just pushing them back where they were.
    Last edited by LeroyPatrol; 09-02-10 at 04:27 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeroyPatrol View Post
    Just out of curiosity, can you use a mast head amp with the power feed through those diplexers?
    No. Because the only power pass on the single cable is required for LNB powering/switching, so it's power pass on the sat side only.

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    So what voltage does a Mast Head Amp run at ?

    (and yeah, I think the install sucks) Tell Foxtel they can give you a year of platinum or come and reinstate your butchered cable.

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    Default Diplexors + masthead amps.

    I'm not sure about Foxtel install standards but Austar techs are not to use diplexors on residential installs only on large blocks of units. I have done private jobs where there was no other way of getting cable to the point and have had to use them. The only downside as mtv mentioned is that you are unable to put a masthead amp power up that cable. If a masthead amp is needed in a diplexed install you can move the power pack up inside the roof and put it after the diplexor, i.e between the diplexor and amp.

    Cheers,
    Nando.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nickbo View Post
    So what voltage does a Mast Head Amp run at ?

    (and yeah, I think the install sucks) Tell Foxtel they can give you a year of platinum or come and reinstate your butchered cable.
    Voltages for masthead amps are all different depending on the make and model, i think they usually are between 14V and 23V. The sat box will use 13V or 18V depending on what channel you are watching (horizontal or vertical polarity).
    Cheers,
    Nando.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mtv View Post
    No. Because the only power pass on the single cable is required for LNB powering/switching, so it's power pass on the sat side only.
    Of course....up there for thinking I was just playing with my masthead amp tonight hence the question.

    Cheers,
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    Quote Originally Posted by nickbo View Post
    So what voltage does a Mast Head Amp run at ?
    As mentioned, masthead (and other) amps can be anything between 5V and 36V, both AC and DC, depending on individual model design.

    The most common voltages are 12VDC, 17VAC and 22VAC.
    Last edited by mtv; 09-02-10 at 09:49 PM. Reason: spelling correction

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    Thanks for the info, good point about the Masthead amp, the plan was always to use this new antenna to then feed the rest of the house when we got around to it so will need to keep this in mind.

    Not a big deal because I will remove the diplexors and run a dedicated cable anyway (because it is such an easy run) Just wanted to know if this was a comon practice. I hear all the time how dodgy the pay is for installers so I guess some will take shortcuts when they can. Just a bit anoyed really because TV reception was so marginal where we are (outskirts of Sydney) that going to the effort of running a decicated cable only to have it cut (even if losses are minimal) was dissapointing.
    Cheers
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    It is pretty average , but they will always go the quickest and cheapest method to try and cram as many installs in to one day due to their poor rate of pay. It pays to be there when they do it so you can tell them what you expect them to do ( or not to do ).

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    Quote Originally Posted by sat_brat View Post
    Thanks for the info, good point about the Masthead amp, the plan was always to use this new antenna to then feed the rest of the house when we got around to it so will need to keep this in mind.

    Not a big deal because I will remove the diplexors and run a dedicated cable anyway (because it is such an easy run) Just wanted to know if this was a comon practice. I hear all the time how dodgy the pay is for installers so I guess some will take shortcuts when they can. Just a bit anoyed really because TV reception was so marginal where we are (outskirts of Sydney) that going to the effort of running a decicated cable only to have it cut (even if losses are minimal) was dissapointing.
    Cheers
    As I mentioned, if you are not happy with the job, especially if it was easy to run a new cable, lodge a complaint with Foxtel.

    They should have no argument for not running a separate cable, but tell them you require your existing cable for further use with a masthead amp and cannot do that now due to how the tech has used diplexers on it without seeking your approval first.

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    Good point MTV Will give that a shot, nothing to lose!
    The sea was angry that day my friends!

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    Just my 2 bobs worth,

    I was very happy with the Foxtel techs with my very recent upgrade of Standard box to IQ. I have a lot of cable in the house, power with C-Bus, voice/data and coaxial distribution systems. Most on catenaries in the roof along with cooling ducts. Not much room up there. Also I had used RF out for distribution of Foxtel channel to other TVs. Today's Box for IQ does not have RF out, so he produced an older model with required output. It was a reasonable run from dish to the box location for the second cable required, not a problem to them, quick, clean and efficient, good on ya Dan and Sam, a team that works the western side of Melbourne. It is nice to see there are good techs out there as well, not just Cowboys

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