Self monitoring by mobile

**PANDATECH** · 06-04-12, 07:53 AM

A few of us on this forum actively support monitoring by professional monitoring companies by advising against self monitoring by mobile. I was wondering does anyone have any cases where it has worked successfully or otherwise? I'm thinking about things like rushing home from the pub to action that smoke alarm and saving your house and family or someone pressing that panic or medical button to summon help only to hear their mobiling ringing in the next room. Anyone tried ringing 000 to say their mobile phone advised them that they may have intruder or fire at their warehouse and if they weren't busy could they drive by and check it out because I'm on holiday in the USA?

**Hound-Dog** · 10-04-12, 09:18 AM

I hear what you are saying, but consider this: The alarm reports to the control room, a single activation, low priority. The control room operator calls the 1st contact. No Answer. Calls 2nd contact. No Answer. Finally calls 3rd contact, who tells him he will check it out! How much time has been wasted?
My alarm system sends an SMS to 5 different numbers. Anyone of us can respond in seconds, and the closest can do a drive by, to see if there is anything obvious. If there is, a call to 000 will have the police on their way!
I think that is a more secure outcome, don't you?

**outlaw308** · 10-04-12, 04:46 PM

Originally Posted by Hound-Dog

I hear what you are saying, but consider this: The alarm reports to the control room, a single activation, low priority. The control room operator calls the 1st contact. No Answer. Calls 2nd contact. No Answer. Finally calls 3rd contact, who tells him he will check it out! How much time has been wasted?
My alarm system sends an SMS to 5 different numbers. Anyone of us can respond in seconds, and the closest can do a drive by, to see if there is anything obvious. If there is, a call to 000 will have the police on their way!
I think that is a more secure outcome, don't you?

1. SMS is a store and forward service. You may not get the message until the next day if at all.
2. The five people who do get the message, call each other to work out who is going to check it out only to find out one is in the movies the other is at home sick etc ....
3. no time saved (and more call costs). At least a real operator will talk to a real person and inform them and know at least ONE person is AWARE of the alarm.

4. Insurance companies may not cover you if your alarm is self monitored.

**PANDATECH** · 10-04-12, 08:23 PM

I was more after real case studies, good or bad, rather than the pros or cons of self monitoring which quite often get discussed in this forum.

**Drift** · 10-04-12, 09:23 PM

It's unlikely you'll get priority 1 police response to any call you make regarding your alarm system having sent you an SMS as you can't verify the cause or when the signal was actually generated.

Sure, you can have your system advise you of all manner of conditions and events these days including all signals that the systems capable of sending to a control room. But what of responding to them? Five people get a text and what happens? In my experience, most ignor it thinking that someone else will respond except the individual with the greatest vested interest provided of course that that particular individual is available at the time. If they're not, then it's back on the rest who assume someone else is going to take care of it. At least if the system's monitored, the operator will keep going until they receive instruction from someone, or action the request as per the clients instructions for cases no contacts are available. You don't get that chance with the system sending a text.

Then come the system events and test signals. Are you going to have your system send a text every day to test that it's still working? Are you going to know what to do when the system sends a text advising PSTN Fail? (if you can get your head around the fact that it even occured). What about AC fail? Are you going to go home only to find the whole street/suburb doesnt have power when the control room (provided its a major) is going to know the suburb is without power?

There are pros and cons for each side of the arguement all of which have been discussed ad infinitum in other threads. The industry is largely going to promote monitoring as they understand the limitations across the board. Technophiles are usually the first to cast aside the benifits of monitoring given their new fangled alarm system can send them a text/email or call them and advise them verbally of the situation. I love gadgets too but would I like the fact that someone is watching when I'm not and that I know someone will respond if none of my contacts are available.

To answer your question, I recall only a single case where a client has received a text or call from their system which has enabled them to circumvent or mitigate a loss. The individual lived 2 minutes from the site and just happened to be getting home from a night out at the time. It was a very convenient set of coincidences enabling him to get to site to find the crooks still there and chase them off. Given the tools the crooks had on them, it's concievable that they could have turned on the guy ending the situation very badly for him. On the other hand, I've received plenty of thanks from clients who have benifited from monitoring.

**intelliGEORGE** · 10-04-12, 09:34 PM

A mate of mine had me set up his Solution 16+. Initially he had it set up to SMS his mobile - after explaining the cons of self monitoring he still insisted on going down this road.

He had all events set to SMS i.e. Opens/Closes, Daily Timer Tests, Alarm/Restore and system events.

To cut a long story short - he became so complacent with the SMS that he didn't realise his system STOPPED reporting. It wasn't until he found a smashed window one morning (nothing stolen) that he realised that the system was offline for over a month.

In the end, it turned out the SMS gateway number was changed and needed to be updated in his panel.

Needless to say he is now paying a $1 a day and is notified by a phone call for LTC (late to close) or NTT (no timer test) signals.

**xaccto** · 12-04-12, 12:34 PM

Originally Posted by PANDATECH

A few of us on this forum actively support monitoring by professional monitoring companies by advising against self monitoring by mobile. .........

That post is just a troll fishing for a particular response....

If your target is homeowners who refuse the on-sell of the monitoring contract, then think you guys need to reveal what $incentive your getting from the monitoring companies to keep brow beating on about this.

Most of your average suburban homes don't have an alarm system, so an alarm system with a good number of screamers will do the job of disconcerting a would be burglar is better than nothing.

Then a again a dog could be just as good, might cost just as much as a monitoring contract, but gives other life satisfying results and benefits.

Just accept people make their own value judgements for better or worse.
And besides as that other thread shows
monitoring companies are no panacea of satisfaction either........
and neither are they supposed to attempt to catch the crooks either....

What % of business do the self-monitoring thing ?

**downunderdan** · 12-04-12, 03:20 PM

Originally Posted by xaccto

If your target is homeowners who refuse the on-sell of the monitoring contract, then think you guys need to reveal what your getting from the monitoring companies to keep brow beating on about this.

Having just beclowned yourself in an adjacent thread (), I'd be interested to know what you do for a living such that we can assess your business model from a position of total ignorance too. Only seems fair.

In my experience, it's not just "technophiles" mentioned by Drift, who reject decent monitoring of their security systems. Rather, young people for whom technology comes easy, but life experience is short. They will sneer at paying money for many things, as they have limited income and few assets. If the most expensive thing you actually own is your iPhone it's hardly worth paying for security, I admit. However people's attitudes change dramatically once they have a family and start to develop a bit of responsibility. Usually driving habits change around this stage as well.

It also comes down to lifestyle choices. When some gadget-head is young, their television is often hooked up to a Linux powered PVR with lots of remotes, automation, network connections etc. Lots of cool features and the added excitement of praying that your recording of last night's episode of Homeland didn't die halfway. A few years later, they will just want something which 'just works' and paying fifteen bucks a month for a Foxtel IQ box doesn't quite seem the huge ripoff they once thought. These same people will spend half a day trying to crack a bit of software rather than pay a few bucks. Several years later, who has the time?

So there's no point arguing with these people about security, monitoring etc. Their reason for being on this website's other forums is testament to who they are, as often is their English which also appears to be considered optional by anyone in their twenties or younger. These are the clues that tell me everything I need to know about some of the characters who pass through here. It's also why many pros cringe about this forum in other security discussion networks I frequent. It's one thing when professionals argue about something. We can all learn from such debate. Or when amateurs ask good-faith questions and consider the responses (which may differ). However I've seen too many threads here where people with absolutely no idea what they are talking about, believe they are arguing with their peers. And then the fun begins... Trolling indeed.

Fundamentally, people's circumstances and clue-factor vary. There is usually only one right answer, but alas there will always be people who will go all the way to their early graves convinced they were right.

**lsemmens** · 13-04-12, 02:37 PM

Great response DUD. I can identify myself in some of that illustration. As with anything, you only get what you're prepared to pay for. Cheap security is really as good as locks, which only keep honest people out.

**Uncle Kneebo** · 13-04-12, 05:20 PM

If you think your mates will respond to an alarm for you directed by SMS you are a fool.

A) if its a legitimate problem, your willing to put your buddies life at risk of a junkie

B) constant false alarms will mean no notice taken

C) Daily tests a minimum, gee do that to your phone and you might as well have it to a graded room.

I cannot tell you how poor self monitoring is; I hope it catches you out and then you realise that YES monitoring rooms are a vital service and god forbid you need to pay for the service...

**xaccto** · 23-04-12, 02:01 PM

wow downunderdan, such a big post to continue your brow beating without
saying anything nor addressing

1) most home owners don't even have an alarm at all
2) if noise scares a burglar away, job done
3) a dog could be just as good and satisfying
4) insurance companies DO cover for burglary, you just might get a cheaper
policy if you have an alarm system and additionally the monitoring.

Obviously you must be pretty pissed off with all those people refusing your on-sell, and you loosing out on a pretty big commission.

I'm not disputing the limitations of self monitoring at all

IMHO, I still reckon a dog is better value than a monitoring contract, dog might actually get a piece of the burglar,hehe.

**controlroom Op** · 25-04-12, 12:30 AM

xaccto

I'll reply with fact, Dan doesn't even need to dignify your ignorance with a response

1) Those people have the most break ins
2) No one listens anymore its annoying like a car alarm
3) If it is a a small dog no one takes notice if it. If its a big dog those people in the neighbouring houses make noise complaints about barking at 0200 and the owners are told to get there dogs under control. If they cant the dogs have to go. This is the real world.
4) My answer here is that to have an alarm system you might at best get a 40-60 dollar discount on your policy

Your last comment if you live in suburbia refer to answer 3.

**bet2win** · 25-04-12, 01:17 AM

I have seen what they do with dogs, no matter what size or type of dog. Throw a bitch on heat and that will distract any dog including female guard dogs.

**AdRock** · 25-04-12, 09:14 PM

There seems to be one point being passed over at this point and that's smoke detectors.

Having a monitored alarm incorporating smoke detectors might make the difference between damage to one part of the house or your house completely burning to the ground. There was once instance recently where a fire had started in one part of the house at 3 am, the (multiple) alarms had activated and the family of 6 was able to all escape without injury. By the time the family had escaped the house the MFS were on the way. If that was a non monitored home at what point would they have called 000?

If it was me it would have been AFTER i had made sure all the family was safe and out of the house, this may have been minutes, and as we know in a house fire minutes make the difference between calling the insurance company or the demolition company.

After speaking to the family later, they had nothing but praise for how the system had worked and had no doubts it had saved lives and property.

So for peace of mind the monitoring fee is a small price to pay.

**downunderdan** · 25-04-12, 10:05 PM

Ditto when there is nobody home and the smoke detector goes into alarm.

My only concern is security installers who don't have proper training in fire/smoke detection systems. Symptoms include smoke detectors in the kitchen (AKA toast detectors) which can also be used as oven timers by some MasterChef rejects. Then again, sparkies commit this sin all the time as well.

**hughdman** · 26-04-12, 01:24 AM

To answer the ops question.
I definitely would prefer a monitoring centre calling.
You just have to see people's reaction to sms's ie it can wait till I view it.
Also one other point is you can't SMS a home phone for eg. My mobile is first call then my house phone.

**sixfourzero** · 26-04-12, 03:00 PM

Your alarm system will only ever be as good as the response mechanisms in place.
You could have a local screamer alarm and great neighbours that will come and check it every time, and call you etc etc. (Unlikely unless you live in Fantasyland - Real world; most people only get annoyed at sirens and would only call the police to complain about the noise rather than a potential break and enter in progress).
You could have the best alarm system that is well maintained and have a good rapport with a great control room. But if no one can be reached in a timely manner, what is the point. By the time they get hold of a patrol to attend...

Also,as stated in another post. Just don't have your nanna as a responder to your alarm. This has happened and a 70+ year old lady vs crims in the middle of the night is not a good scenario.