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Thread: DAS Hills Comnav

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    Nigeltec,
    I have the R12 so didn't encounter that problem.

    I am going to do some network analysis of my panel tonight to determine if it is even trying to talk or not.

    Are there any software upgrades for panel or ComNav?



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    So now I am even more confused.
    The email reporting started working (When I enter program mode on the panel, which I may not have done previously when the network was all setup, but pretty sure I would have), however... it only works when i enter and exit program mode. Not for setting/cancelling alarm.
    It send to the two email address even though one has nothing selected.




    One email - everything selected
    other email - nothing selected

    So it appears that the panel is not really caring too much about what is selected at all in the web interface for comnav.

    I was going to try check what email reports are setup in the panel itself (to double check) but they are via web interface only.

    Perhaps it is just me but this is a pretty flakey piece of kit.

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    What firmware version is on your ComNav?

    If its older than mine (v0.60) then perhaps it could be a firmware problem.
    DAS support told me their ComNav was running a newer version than my v0.60 (I bought mine is Sept 2011). It would be very helpful if we could get access to each FW version's bug fixes so we would know wether or not the FW is responsible for our particular problems.

    Nigel

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    so how did you update the firmware? I have .60
    When I enable the web updates which quotes ftp, there is no change in open ports.

    There is no instruction in installation manual on firmware upgrades.

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    Default Re Firmware updates

    No I have NOT updated my FW (its still at 0.60) and haven't tried so can't help you with that.
    RE FTP option - not sure what that's about. Would've thought it opened FTP ports so u could upload updates but you say there were no additional ports opened.

    Nigel

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    Try getting rid of Cancel, Recent Close and all Reserved chaeck boxes.

    I think I did this andf got all my email & SMS reporting going.

    Can't exactly remember what else I did, but the client gets reports as required.

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    Default Hills Comnav access problem

    Hi everyone, I am current working on comnav but the problem im up with is that i cant access the comnav via web. i have connect the wires correct the red data light is blinking. Also i have enabled the option 4 & 6 in feature 19. And gave the IP address. but no luck. Can anyone please explain me how to gain access. I am using hills R8 system. This is my first time with comnav so if anyone can explain in details would be really appreciated.

    Thank you

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    1) If not sure that the ComNav works with an R8. Yes I was told it would by Hills but ultimately had to upgrade to an R12 before I got it working.
    (Sorry can't remember if the reason was that I had used too many options on the R8 (ie Remote keyfob, etc) or it just doesn't work on an R8 - investigate this R8 compatibility issue)
    2) Try connection with FireFox as I found IE was flaky. Try both http and https
    3) Try resetting back to factory defaults and connect it to your home network to see if it picks up and IP from your DHCP server.
    (Match its MAC to IP address - at least you will know it's getting an IP)
    Hope that's of some help.
    Nigel

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    thanks for ur help. but still doesnt work spoke to das tech support they sad comnav should work with r8.

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    Default ComNav v2

    Hi Guys,

    Today I purchased and installed the ComNav on a NX-12 Reliance system. The part number for ComNav is S2096A.

    Was very straight forward to program via pinpad's. The real trouble began when I tried to use Chrome or Internet Explorer on Windows 10. However thanks to my IT background I could work through it. Firstly these modern type browsers do not support TLS3.0 by default. Therefore I tried to play around with the settings in chrome and Internet Explorer to allow this without success.

    The trick in the end is to use an older browser. So I downloaded Mozilla firefox Portable edition 3.6.11 (Current Version is V39) so that is a long time ago. Anyway the link I downloaded it from is here:

    The good thing about that browser is that you can save it to a USB memory stick with some instructions and pop it in the cabinet with the ComNav Module.

    The ComNav uses port 443 by default, I changed it to port 444 because we have another device on 443.

    Either way once you've got the browser sorted it really is straight forward and reliable from what I can see so far. Connectx is on Android and iOS/Apple/iPhone.

    It is a really bad move from Hills not to update this devices firmware to support modern web browsers. Pathetic really especially since we are talking security.

    Here is the version info just in case anyone needs it:
    Device ID: 1
    Firmware: 2.0k
    Hardware: 1.0
    Bootload: 4.0
    Web Version: CN_0.106-j
    Voice: 0.5
    Language: 0

    Good luck

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    Default Help needed guys

    Quote Originally Posted by bet2win View Post
    The comnav will not send reports if the features are not turned on in the main panel programming eg


    Feature 9 - Event Summary Report
    Feature 16 - Segment 3 Area 1 Reporting Options
    Feature 22 - Segment 3 & 4 System Options Reporting

    So if these options are not enabled, the comnav will not email/sms etc regardless what settings you have in your comnav settings.

    Check these first, enable all of them to see if emails are working or not.

    Another indicator to check is the green traffic/data light on the Network Socket on the comnav.

    So after an arming after exit delay you should see the traffic/data light flash after five or six times for a brief second indicating traffic going out. This light will flash when ever it is transmitting data onto your network.
    So I have installed the system and ComNav is up and running. I have installed the XConnect App and can turn on/off my alarm system through my phone.

    HOWEVER I cannot get the email reporting reporting option to work deapite entering all correct details in the email reporting section (port, server, email etc).

    I have a TOUCHNAV Panel so am wondering how do I access the correct features to activate etc.

    Thank you

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    Default COMNAV v2 SMTP Server Settings

    Hi rxl,

    RE ComNav v2 (which you have if it works with the XConnect App):
    The SMTP Server field found on the Email Setting page is a sham as it cannot be used.
    I have tried it with various SMTP servers including TPG, GMAIL, Hotmail and it fails to contact them (FYI I'm an IT guy so have a good idea of what I'm doing).
    You have to leave this field blank and it uses some unknown SMTP server, details presumably hardcoded in the firmware.
    The result is that the alert email's FROM address will be something like Comnav Security <do-not-reply@mail135-3.atl141.mandrillapp.com>

    You CAN enter an email in the Return Address field however that doesn't work properly either as it will just prefix this address to the <do-not-reply@mail135-3.atl141.mandrillapp.com> from address rendering it useless since people cannot hit reply and automatically reply to the Return Address you have entered (which is the intended use of a Return Address).

    So in summary leave all the SMTP Server fields blank except for the Port field as even though it doesn't use this field, it still does validation on it so won't let you Save Config if you leave blank.

    ComNav v1
    FYI the ComNav v1 I used to have did honour the SMTP Server config however it didn't work with the XConnect App so I "upgraded".
    I'm pretty disappointed to find that after so many years and after purchasing my 2nd ComNav the firmware is still incomplete.

    Regards
    Nigel

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    Nigel

    Just did this and worked straight away.

    Thanks mate.

    You're a legend!

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    Default ComNav App - xConnect / UltraConnect

    Quote Originally Posted by nigeltec View Post
    Hi rxl,

    RE ComNav v2 (which you have if it works with the XConnect App):
    The SMTP Server field found on the Email Setting page is a sham as it cannot be used.
    I have tried it with various SMTP servers including TPG, GMAIL, Hotmail and it fails to contact them (FYI I'm an IT guy so have a good idea of what I'm doing).
    You have to leave this field blank and it uses some unknown SMTP server, details presumably hardcoded in the firmware.
    The result is that the alert email's FROM address will be something like Comnav Security <do-not-reply@mail135-3.atl141.mandrillapp.com>

    You CAN enter an email in the Return Address field however that doesn't work properly either as it will just prefix this address to the <do-not-reply@mail135-3.atl141.mandrillapp.com> from address rendering it useless since people cannot hit reply and automatically reply to the Return Address you have entered (which is the intended use of a Return Address).

    So in summary leave all the SMTP Server fields blank except for the Port field as even though it doesn't use this field, it still does validation on it so won't let you Save Config if you leave blank.

    ComNav v1
    FYI the ComNav v1 I used to have did honour the SMTP Server config however it didn't work with the XConnect App so I "upgraded".
    I'm pretty disappointed to find that after so many years and after purchasing my 2nd ComNav the firmware is still incomplete.

    Regards
    Nigel

    Just FYI..... spoke with a Hills representative a while back and was advised to use the UltraConnect app instead of the xConnect app. More or less, these apps function and look pretty much the same. The UltraConnect app apparently is more preferred / developed and supports features such as 'push notifications' and 'geo-functions'. The latter can basically automatically activate your ComNav connected system when you leave a pre-defined geo-location (and disarm using the same feature) when your GPS capable smartphone has an active data connection and your ComNav module is internet connected. Some features (like geo-functions) are not currently supported with the current ComNav firmware (yet), but I am told that newer firmware is being tested and will be released soon. Note that DAS / Hills develop their firmware independently from the UltraConnect app developers.(UHS Pty Ltd), thus the delay in the ComNav feature support of UltraConnect functions.

    I was told that the firmware of the ComNav is upgraded using a USBNav dongle that you manually load the firmware onto. Basically it is a USB drive with a button on it. You connect it to your USB port on your computer, copy the firmware to the appropriate folder, then connect this dongle to your ComNav system via a supplied cable....press the button.....presto, new firmware is loaded after a couple of minutes. Obviously this USB dongle is sourced from a Hills distributor and is intended for professional installers, so you may need to contact an authorised installer or Hills direct. Also, the software update option in the ComNav configuration GUI seems to have disappeared in newer firmware versions....this may mean that Hills intend all firmware to be updated via the USB dongle in future (just a guess).

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    Default RE: Software update option in the ComNav configuration GUI has disappeared

    Thanks for the info.

    RE: Software update option in the ComNav configuration GUI has disappeared:
    How irritating - just another money grab so you have to buy a useless USB dongle when you could MORE easily have used the GUI to upgrade direct from their site.
    So will they charge for BOTH the dongle AND the new firmware?

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    Default USBNav / ComNav

    Quote Originally Posted by nigeltec View Post
    Thanks for the info.

    RE: Software update option in the ComNav configuration GUI has disappeared:
    How irritating - just another money grab so you have to buy a useless USB dongle when you could MORE easily have used the GUI to upgrade direct from their site.
    So will they charge for BOTH the dongle AND the new firmware?

    Hi nigeltec,

    The dongle is intended for use by professionals, so I imagine installers would have them. The dongle is about $90, but I am not sure if Hills will sell them to anyone. The firmware on the other hand also has to be supplied by Hills (I don't think there is a fee for the firmware) as there is no internet mechanism/framework established to obtain this firmware (as far as I know anyway). There is also no notification mechanism (email or otherwise) for customers to be notified.....I believe this is reserved for Hills authorised installers only. Best to contact your local Hills office to ask what the latest firmware is and how you get it. I'm still waiting to be notified about the latest firmware release as it is meant to support the geo-function feature of the UltraConnect mobile app (the app which is recommended for use with the system).

    I know when I first got the ComNav unit, there was an option in the admin settings for firmware updates, which seems to have disappeared in later releases. Hopefully they will bring remote firmware updates back as an option, but I am not sure if this is possible as the Hills rep said the USBNav was needed for the firmware update. The dongle also has a specific file system formatting (and a load button), so I don't think a generic USB drive can be adapted (not without some re-engineering anyway). Personally I think there should be a secure server connection for the firmware updates, where the firmware is updated through push notifications and acceptance through a secure mobile app.

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    Default New Firmware is just a money grab

    Hi YesMan,
    RE: The dongle is intended for use by professionals:
    Why?
    I don't understand this comment... what special skills does a "professional" have that are required to plug in a dongle?
    Furthermore most consumer technical products have for many years allowed "none professionals" to upgrade the firmware on their products eg computers and phones.
    So trying to justify this money grab with "The dongle is intended for use by professionals" just doesn't work for me.

    RE: The dongle also has a specific file system formatting (and a load button), so I don't think a generic USB drive can be adapted
    A USB dongle can be formatted with ANY file system so no barrier.
    Firmware update could be initiated with a click of the mouse in the Admin UI as is normal with firmware updates on all other consumer products... no need for the proprietary "load button" on a $5 dongle in order to justify the $90 price tag.

    RE: Hills will be their own demise by adopting this lock-in design behavior
    I've seen this cycle with many tech companies in the past... they try to lock-in their customer base and milk more money out of them rather than opening out the design and growing the customer base... its usually a sure sign that the company is in decline and it usually goes broke after a few years.
    Because of this I will be migrating over to Smarthome products (utilizing ZigBee &/or ZWave) for my future security needs as they allow the End User full control including free firmware upgrades that incorporate new & improved features.

    Regards
    Nigel

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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nigeltec View Post
    Hi YesMan,
    RE: The dongle is intended for use by professionals:
    Why?
    I don't understand this comment... what special skills does a "professional" have that are required to plug in a dongle?
    Furthermore most consumer technical products have for many years allowed "none professionals" to upgrade the firmware on their products eg computers and phones.
    So trying to justify this money grab with "The dongle is intended for use by professionals" just doesn't work for me.

    RE: The dongle also has a specific file system formatting (and a load button), so I don't think a generic USB drive can be adapted
    A USB dongle can be formatted with ANY file system so no barrier.
    Firmware update could be initiated with a click of the mouse in the Admin UI as is normal with firmware updates on all other consumer products... no need for the proprietary "load button" on a $5 dongle in order to justify the $90 price tag.

    RE: Hills will be their own demise by adopting this lock-in design behavior
    I've seen this cycle with many tech companies in the past... they try to lock-in their customer base and milk more money out of them rather than opening out the design and growing the customer base... its usually a sure sign that the company is in decline and it usually goes broke after a few years.
    Because of this I will be migrating over to Smarthome products (utilizing ZigBee &/or ZWave) for my future security needs as they allow the End User full control including free firmware upgrades that incorporate new & improved features.

    Regards
    Nigel

    Hi Nigel,

    To be fair, it is not Hills that develops the software used on the ComNav units. The company that develops the UltraConnect app is the developer, Hills just uses their software (like the other security OEMs) and compiles or adapts it to their hardware. This is very similar to what happens in the mobile phone industry, with Google Android firmware releases and OEM software releases......OEMs adapt the software to their hardware, which is why the user experience is often different from what the original software developer intended. Software development can be an expensive business, so it is no surprise that this happens in some industries. Hills tests the new software and releases new versions as they see fit. It would have been nice if Hills developed a more secure and automated system for software updates (using the internet connection), I am guessing there are some technical limitations for not implementing this.

    Since my last post I have discovered that new firmware versions will need a newer USBNav module (older USBNav models don't work with the newer firmware). I can understand why people are not fans of updating via a module, particularly when the ComNav has an internet connection to ComNav servers. Maybe future versions of the ComNav may mature to a more advanced updated machanism (like devices with certificate signing, IT industry-accepted strong encryption algorithms, etc...)...after all, updating via the internet has to be secure.

    The latest firmware allows Geo-location functions for Android / iOS devices. There are also some changes to the system configuration menu options. Save all configuration settings (record passwords, usernames, serial numbers, etc ...) before updating new firmware. The ComNav will need to be reset/defaulted and configured again after updating to the most recent firmware version.

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    Default ComNav Firmware upgrades and USBNav module ripoff

    RE "To be fair...":
    Do you work for Hills?
    Reason I ask is because your whole paragraph either is incorrect, doesn't make sense and/or is irrelevant to the points I made.
    (Please don't take offense but I just can't respond to that paragraph because it really doesn't address the topic and/or has many inaccuracies)

    RE ...need a newer USBNav module:
    Again Hills is milking money from their customers by requiring them to buy an expensive "USBNav module" for EACH firmware update when a generic USB Drive could be used.
    ("USBNav module" is just a fancy name used by Hills to obscure the fact its a $5 USB Drive).

    RE ...more advanced update mechanism:
    The ComNav already has a certificate embedded in its firmware which is used for secure HTTPS connections.
    There is no reason this certificate cannot be used on the ComNav end to prove to Hills it is a genuine ComNav and allowed to download firmware updates.
    The whole process is extremely secure as HTTPS encryption is used and each end has certificates to prove who they are (ComNav card & Hills servers) so everything is already in place and easily utilized for ongoing firmware updates WITHOUT having to used so called "USBNav module".
    If you don't think the above is highly secure then everyone should stop using online banking ;-)

    RE New firmware & UltraConnect vs older X Connect android Apps:
    I've stayed with the older "X Connect" app as I've seen bad reviews about the UltraConnect plus it doesn't seem to offer much more.
    I suspect they are trying to move their customers to a "subscription" model where you will need to pay annually if you want to receive alert emails from your ComNav so I'd recommend people review their new firmware and apps carefully before upgrading just in case they sneak something like this in since you can't downgrade.

    Regards Nigel
    Last edited by nigeltec; 03-01-17 at 10:35 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nigeltec View Post
    RE "To be fair...":
    Do you work for Hills?
    Reason I ask is because your whole paragraph either is incorrect, doesn't make sense and/or is irrelevant to the points I made.
    (Please don't take offense but I just can't respond to that paragraph because it really doesn't address the topic and/or has many inaccuracies)

    RE ...need a newer USBNav module:
    Again Hills is milking money from their customers by requiring them to buy an expensive "USBNav module" for EACH firmware update when a generic USB Drive could be used.
    ("USBNav module" is just a fancy name used by Hills to obscure the fact its a $5 USB Drive).

    [B]RE ...more advanced update mechanism:
    The ComNav already has a certificate embedded in its firmware which is used for secure HTTPS connections.
    There is no reason this certificate cannot be used on the ComNav end to prove to Hills it is a genuine ComNav and allowed to download firmware updates.
    The whole process is extremely secure as HTTPS encryption is used and each end has certificates to prove who they are (ComNav card & Hills servers) so everything is already in place and easily utilized for ongoing firmware updates WITHOUT having to used so called "USBNav module".
    If you don't think the above is highly secure then everyone should stop using online banking ;-)

    RE New firmware & UltraConnect vs older X Connect android Apps:
    I've stayed with the older "X Connect" app as I've seen bad reviews about the UltraConnect plus it doesn't seem to offer much more.
    I suspect they are trying to move their customers to a "subscription" model where you will need to pay annually if you want to receive alert emails from your ComNav so I'd recommend people review their new firmware and apps carefully before upgrading just in case they sneak something like this in since you can't downgrade.

    Regards Nigel

    Hi Nigel,

    Sorry if my post caused any confusion, I wasn't particularly answering points specifically. Was trying to keep my posts as neutral as possible as I am not trying to force any specific views. Please see my comments to your previous points as follows:-

    RE "To be fair...":
    No offence taken and I do not work for Hills. My previous post was rather rushed and wasn't specifically catering to specific points. Any points that I make is based on what I have discovered through my own research into the ComNav product when trying to get features to work.


    RE ...need a newer USBNav module:
    This may be a techical limitation of the ComNav module, which is why a programming USBNav module is required. The original firmware had a remote update option (it didn't seem to work), which was later removed in newer firmware releases. Hills have come out with other product lines that cater to internet connected security systems (as I have discovered). Again, I have a Hills system, which I upgraded and have looked into myself..... just discussing with no particular bias.

    RE ...more advanced update mechanism:
    I still found RC4 certificates in use, which is why I don't have a lot of trust in the security of the ComNav. Had to use a very old version of Mozilla Firefox (v13) for SSL connections. Haven't had a lot of time to play around with the unit and dig into how it communicates...would need to do packet captures and analyse the output. My web browser would not connect to the ComNav with the firmware I updated a few months ago, indicating invalid certificates. New web browsers will not allow the user to accept RC4 encryption certificates. Web browsers have blocked usage of SSL / TLS sessions with RC4 certificates for some years now. Security with non-trusted crypto is kind of pointless (you could take that as my opinion ). RC4 was removed from trusted crypto suites because it was found to be too easy to break with current computer systems and the right know how. Also seeing as the module doesn't appear to support SSL/TLS for email clients...I can't imagine that emails are sent securely (even the content of these emails should be important for security). No bank that I know of uses RC4 encryption.....it is just not allowed by current internet browsers. The best preference at the moment is AES 128 or higher encryption algorithms. Will probably have to throw these units in the bin once quantum computing becomes a mainstream threat.

    RE New firmware & UltraConnect vs older X Connect android Apps:
    I was told by Hills to use the UltraConnect app instead of xConnect. It is the only reason why I mentioned it and why I am using it. So far I don't seem to have any issues, but good to find out things from forums like this one.

    Cheers
    Last edited by YesMan; 04-01-17 at 07:14 PM.

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