Duress alarm problems

**Maz** · 14-06-12, 08:49 PM

First of all, please forgive my ignorance. I am not a regular on the forum and have come here specifically to get advice in regards to this question.

I work in a police station. The charge room area has two duress alarms. These alarms have protruding red buttons on different walls of the room. To be activated these buttons have to be physically pressed in. To reset them the buttons have to be turned slightly and pulled out.

Around one month ago these two alarms started to activate in the early hours (usually between 2am and 4am) of the morning. No other persons were in the building other than the two officers that responded.

Upon inspection of the charge room where the alarms were indicated to have been activated, both of the duress alarms were fully pressed in. They had to be pulled out to be reset. The buttons were not pushed in previous to these activations.

My question is, is it possible for these buttons to malfunction and some how activate themselves? Both of these buttons have been fully depressed when the officers attended. There is nothing in the room that could have bumped them and there were no other persons in the station at the time. This has occurred at least ten times over the last month.

Is there anything that can cause the buttons to depress themselves?

I'm in the process of getting my boss to fix it. In the meantime I can see my colleagues getting complacent about those particular alarms and they are now talking about ghosts etc...

**downunderdan** · 14-06-12, 09:19 PM

My first thought was that you were in Rose Bay police station which is believed .

Panic/Duress/Holdup buttons are often designed to positively indicate whether they have been depressed. Often they lock closed once pressed and require a handcuff key to unlock them, the point being that when the Police arrive at a false alarm and get upset, the owner can't claim that nobody pressed the button when there is a mechanical indication that it was pressed.

Yours are also a locking/latching type resembling the proverbial "Big Red Button". I have never heard of a button failing in such a way as to effectively press itself and even if that could happen, the chance of it happening to both of them is even more unlikely.

There are certainly wiring or electronic reasons for a false alarm however in that you've suggested the buttons were found to be actually pushed in, I would suggest you get the detectives onto the problem, not the techs. You should have dates/times etc. of the activations and be able to narrow it down. I know you said there was nobody there, but may be a cleaner etc.

Failing that, who ya gonna call?

(Me)

**nbound** · 14-06-12, 09:45 PM

Got surveillance in the room? Id be checking that.

**Maz** · 14-06-12, 10:21 PM

Thanks for the prompt replies.

No its not Rose Bay Station, though I had heard that rumour.

The room is under constant camera surveilllance. The cameras show nothing. In the last two weeks the camera hard drive malfunctioned and has just been repaired. But the alarm has activated both prior to and since then.

I can definitely confirm that there has been nobody else there. The alarm has activated whilst myself and my offsider were in another part of the building and rushed there inside of ten seconds. This has been the same situation with several other officers. There are only two ways into the charge room (one through the way we enter via a hallway, and the other to the outside through a locked door). There have been no noises (ie of doors etc) prior to the alarm activation.

On the occasion that I responded the buttons were NOT depressed. But the alarm panel indicated it was the same buttons. On the occasions with other officers, they have been depressed (the buttons, not the officers..).

I have no logical way of explaining how it could happen. I have been concocting possible stories of temperatures causing metal springs inside the button to expand or contract and cause the button to depress (yes I know I'm reaching with that one) because I can't come up with anything else.

The cleaner comes in much later and its a small station. I have not been able to get any type of info on the times/dates the alarm is going off. This is basically due to procedural garbage in obtaining the details of who monitors our alarms. I don't know if I'm going to make any further progress on that either.
Hoping for a sane solution.

**downunderdan** · 14-06-12, 10:27 PM

Okay, hang on. I didn't read correctly from your first post that sometimes the alarm is activated but the buttons are NOT pressed in.

That makes a lot more sense. You could have a wiring problem e.g. a rat chewed through a wire or some moisture got in, or an intermittent electronic fault. Are both buttons are on the same wire (i.e. the same zone, wired in parallel) or are they completely separate. If they're near each other, the former scenario is possible as a cost-saving measure in that it doesn't matter which button was pressed, it will still indicate an alarm in the same room.

Perhaps on the occasion you found them pressed in, the buttons were subsequently pressed after the alarm activation in by someone hamfistedly trying to reset them etc. Could that be possible?

**Maz** · 14-06-12, 10:42 PM

The buttons not being depressed appears to have only happened once, and that was when I was working.

When the buttons have been depressed the other officers have been particularly aware of the problem and have checked them earlier in the shift and are also particularly careful when they respond, so I don't feel they have accidently pressed it.

The alarms are located on different walls and are different zones I believe. One is on a small northern wall (semi concealed) and the other is open display on a western wall. They are about 4m apart.

**downunderdan** · 14-06-12, 10:57 PM

I assume they're monitored? What happens when you press them. Who gets called? Speak to the monitoring centre and tell them you are going to test it. Press each button a minute apart and see if they receive a second signal. If not, they're both on the same zone. The keypad may also indicate this. At least then you'll know if there's one problem or two.

Are there other zones in the station that you can use to test the system overall? Lots of stations are 24x7 so don't really have a traditional alarm, especially the small ones.

Anyway, I don't see any way around this not requiring a tech to visit and test the wiring etc.

The good news for you is that the Police aren't going to get the @(#$*( for constantly responding. You'll just hear a bunch of swearing in the next room.

**Maz** · 14-06-12, 11:12 PM

I'm assuming they are monitored to a degree. By who I'm struggling to find out. I'll keep at it, but I'm getting the run around.

I'm sure I spoke with alarm/security people when I first started here, but not in a long time now.

I know we don't receive calls from anyone when the alarms are activated now (not sure about in the past).

There are other zones in the station and I'll give them a full workout on Sunday when I'm back. I'm trying to get the boss to get the techs out as well.

I was really curious to see if anyone had experienced buttons depressing themselves. Obviously not.

**intelliGEORGE** · 14-06-12, 11:46 PM

I'm assuming that being in a police station the alarm system may be a Concept by Innerrange. If this is the case, I'd be organising a service visit to the site to check the age of all the panel and expander batteries.

The buttons themselves could need replacing.

As for the buttons themselves, they are spring loaded, so the chances of them being depressed on their own is highly unlikely.

Do they look like this?

**Maz** · 14-06-12, 11:49 PM

yes, very similar to that. I tried finding a picture online but couldn't. That's very close though.

**Privatteer** · 16-06-12, 03:48 AM

For buttons like that to be found pressed in I would suggest someone is playing games.

False alarms without being pressed in I can understand. Particularly in a changeroom that might have a lot of moisture. Either corrosion or just moisture inside the contacts has a good chance of being the fault. Otherwise cable could be the issue.

Not sure what state your in but I find it ironic that WA police have specified the following for duress alarms

Device type:

The button shall not protrude or stand proud of the surface of the device.
The button shall not be able to be activated from a frontal impact. An upward, downward or outward action is preferred to a front push type button.
A single button device should be recessed requiring a deliberate insertion of a finger or fingers to activate the alarm.
Note: trap type duress devices shall be installed in pairs; both devices requiring a trip to activate the alarm.

Personally I like ones since they give a clear indication when been activated but require a deliberate action to alarm.

edit: The few stations I have been too had unmonitored Ademco alarms activating a light/buzzer in common area. Thus no one was called offsite.

**downunderdan** · 16-06-12, 10:57 AM

There is a difference between false alarm reduction by choice of panic/hold-up buttons in a low-risk environment with untrained users, e.g. a service station, private residence etc. and devices in a high-risk corrections, law-enforcement or mental health facility.

In those areas it's not uncommon to see kickbars, mushroom buttons, pull-cords and other duress devices. Individuals can also carry man-down alarms, breath-hold sensors or proximity alarms.

**Maz** · 19-06-12, 07:23 PM

Thanks for your replies guys. The techs looked at the alarm system and buttons yesterday and said there was nothing wrong with it.

The saga continues...

**downunderdan** · 19-06-12, 07:39 PM

Fun with intermittent faults...

Needless to say the system will NEVER play up when a tech is watching. Ask the tech to give you an 8x12" photo of himself to hang over the button. Might have the same effect.

**intelliGEORGE** · 19-06-12, 08:12 PM

Originally Posted by Maz

I'm sure I spoke with alarm/security people when I first started here, but not in a long time now.

How long is "a long time"? Reason I'm asking is in relation to my previous post about the system batteries.

**Maz** · 20-06-12, 12:45 PM

maybe 18 months. I am certain now that it is no longer monitored. The duress alarms were, according to the tech, functioning normally.

Oddly enough last week, around 5.30am the general alarm was set off (ie movement sensors). This is the first time that this has happened since I've been there (2 years).

**intelliGEORGE** · 20-06-12, 07:50 PM

Can you tell us what brand of alarm system is installed?

**fastwrx** · 20-06-12, 11:45 PM

Originally Posted by downunderdan

My first thought was that you were in Rose Bay police station which is believed .

Sorry to go off topic, but spent the entire day there at Rose Bay, in the old cell and didn't see any ghosts. Pretty disappointed really

**fastwrx** · 20-06-12, 11:51 PM

Oh and to help the OP, most of the duress's I've seen at police stations, that are the "turn to reset" style simply set off a sounder in another part of the station and are not monitored.

If the buttons are pressed in someone or something pressed them in. There would be no mechanism inside these buttons to retract them to the on position.