OFF Peak 1 ripple tone switch not working

[Farmsky]

Hi Guys,

Why is this so? Long story to follow .....

The in laws off peak hot water service has a long history of not heating overnight. They are supplied by Energy Australia on an Off Peak 1 supply plan. Off Peak 1 typically provides power from 10.00p - 7.00a.

They have recently replaced the HWS (last 12 months). The HWS has a booster element for the top of the tank, as well as the normal whole of tank element.

They have reported the lack of hot water a number of times and had both the supply authority and a local sparky investigate.

Energy Australia have replaced the ripple tone off peak switch in the last 12 months.

They have not had off peak for 3 nights now and are using the booster switch for hot water.

Anyhow I've just arrived at their place (11:15 p) and checked the off peak switch in the meter box. And it is OFF.

As the switch has been replaced and Energy Australia on previous calls have ensured that Off peak was available, why would their switch not be working?

The in laws are at the end of a supply feed, but surely that wouldn't make any difference? Can ripple tone switches behave in this fashion ie marginal for some reason?

I'll call them in their service hours tomorrow Sat 8.30a - midday to follow it up. But it appears to be an Energy Australia's problem; not the in laws as they have been led to believe!

[Farmsky]

Shyte, the power of Austech.

Just checked the bloody switch and it's now 'ON' at about 11.25p. Better late than never I guess.

But does it stay on until 7.00a as advertised??

I'll keep you posted

Then again if I don't get a hot shower in the morning .....

[global88]

Sorry Farmsky, im trying to understand, are you saying that the off peak system is not switching on at 10pm and possibly may not be switching off at 7 am?

Strange, how does the off peak unit switch on and off is it the ripple tone switch that operates it?

Yep dont know how they work, just curious.

[Farmsky]

OK u learn something everyday ... I hope

Off peak systems with booster elements are designed so that both elements cannot operate at the same time. Very sensible.

But the down side is that the booster thermostat must be ON (= booster element OFF) before the off peak element is active.

So if you run out of off peak hot water the sequence is:

1. Turn on the booster switch and leave it on overnight. This is necessary to ensure that the booster thermostat is in the 'I'm already hot' position.

When the off peak element kicks in, it will heat the water from the bottom of the tank and take over control of the booster element thermostat.

2. In the morning turn off the booster element switch and all is normal again .... until you use too much hot water one day and the top of the tank goes cold and the booster thermostat is in the 'I need more heat' position.

Go back to 1.

Shame the old folks didn't have this explained clearly the two or three times they have called out Energy Australia and the local electrician, thinking there was a fault.

The booster switch now has a label

[Farmsky]

PS I didn't get a hot shower







..... because the booster switch was OFF

[z80]

There are a number of possibilities there.

The tone may not be getting through sometimes, or there is corruptive interfernce, filterring etc.

Of course the power utility devised those devices to load balance their network....so they can switch thousands of units on and off with a keystroke.

We had one of the first some years ago and it would switch on saturday afternoons at times.

Bottom line is it does it once a day, at their discretion, not at a fixed time.


However I would go with the loss of tone theory.

[global88]

Thanks for that Farmsky and Zed sounds like more to go wrong.

Ill just stick to my gas unit as i hate cold showers.

[z80]

Thanks for that Farmsky and Zed sounds like more to go wrong.

Ill just stick to my gas unit as i hate cold showers.

Yes mate, not wrong there.


I remember when they first put it in I complained to the Ombudsman that they were able to turn it ON as many times as they liked.

Need more profits?

Turn a million hot water systems on a few "extra" times a week......$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[mickc]

check the thermostat top element if its not working the bottom will never come on
or you should be able to bridge it if its faulty and run on main element
the off peak is turned on and off to suit demand/load times are only a guide

[mango]

i had trouble with the off peak system when i got a new h/system it was larger than the old 1.

got a sparky, he put in a timer switch and pissed off the o/p, end result was i can have hot water all the time and it is cheaper than o/p.

[Farmsky]

check the thermostat top element if its not working the bottom will never come on or you should be able to bridge it if its faulty and run on main element the off peak is turned on and off to suit demand/load times are only a guide

Tks Mick.

Yes it was all ok. Simply operators error as explained above. The offpeak switch in the meter box was on last night from around 11.15p to sometime after 7.00a.

They use it to balance load, so off peak switching times are discretionary.

So the trick is ... for an off peak HWS with booster ... if you use all the hot water in the tank ie the top thermostat is 'cold', the booster switch must be left on overnight.

Otherwise the off peak element will NEVER start.

[viper5150]

The top element should kick in whenever there is no hot water in the tank. So about 20-30mins after running out, you should have some hot water. The off peak as far as i understand should kick in so you have a full tank of hot water in the morning. So check the thermostat and if you still run out then maybe they should look at fitting a 7.5L flow restricter to the shower head. Alternatively you could look at a thermostatic mixing valve. It wont give you more water but will limit the use of hot water. In NSW it is law that you must fit one to the hot water supply if you replace the water heater anyway.

[mickc]

the bottom element should get its power from the top element/thermostat
the booster is only a booster for manual operation it should all run in auto
the top element should come on first when it reaches set temp it switches to the bottom/main
turn your booster on and watch the meter it will be spinning all night

[Farmsky]

Yes Mick and Viper.

I guess that the real answer, is to leave the booster switch closed permanently ..... and it will happily look after itself!

Or by-pass the top thermostat (by rewiring). The neutral line is switched via the top thermostat as Mick suggests. Then run it on off peak only .... if you're a tight arse.