Ness M1 Gold, Ness D16 or Bosch Solution 16Plus

**captaincaveman** · 23-09-12, 09:19 PM

I have received quotes from various suppliers for each of these systems. This is for a renovated two-storey house with 5 bedrooms & 2 living areas.

The Ness M1 Gold is the most expensive, then the Ness D16, with the Bosch Solution 16Plus the cheapest of the three.

I'm struggling a bit to understand what the differences are between these systems, particularly the Ness M1 versus the D16.

As I understand it the Ness D16 can be armed/disarmed remotely via IP, the Bosch 16Plus, being older technology, cannot?

I undertand the Ness M1 can talk to CBus, but is there any point getting the Ness M1 if I don't have C-Bus? (I don't). General consensus amongst the installers seems to be that I will need at least 7 PIRs (probably 9) & 2 keypads.

With the Ness products, what do you guys generally think about the Navigator LCD keypad? Worth the extra cost or don't bother?

Thanks for any advice you can offer.

**Shane-Lott** · 23-09-12, 10:07 PM

Originally Posted by captaincaveman

I have received quotes from various suppliers for each of these systems. This is for a renovated two-storey house with 5 bedrooms & 2 living areas.

The Ness M1 Gold is the most expensive, then the Ness D16, with the Bosch Solution 16Plus the cheapest of the three.

I'm struggling a bit to understand what the differences are between these systems, particularly the Ness M1 versus the D16.

As I understand it the Ness D16 can be armed/disarmed remotely via IP, the Bosch 16Plus, being older technology, cannot?

I undertand the Ness M1 can talk to CBus, but is there any point getting the Ness M1 if I don't have C-Bus? (I don't). General consensus amongst the installers seems to be that I will need at least 7 PIRs (probably 9) & 2 keypads.

With the Ness products, what do you guys generally think about the Navigator LCD keypad? Worth the extra cost or don't bother?

Thanks for any advice you can offer.

Hello Captain,

Why don't you take a visit to each of the suppliers and ask them to show the capability of their products?

It is then up to the appropriatly registered security adviser and installer to complete the assessment of your premise and then the installation.

Regards,

**watchdog** · 23-09-12, 10:18 PM

If it were me then I'd go with the Bosch every time , others may disagree. I am not a fan of the Ness panels however the Navigator codepad is really easy to use ( especially for wireless programming). If you are into fancy stuff the new NX codepad will take a camera & doubles as a video monitor.

**captaincaveman** · 23-09-12, 11:18 PM

I'm a bit time poor to visit different showrooms to be honest - and very few of these places open weekends.

I'm curious to know the specific issue you have with the Ness panels? Certainly the installer who suggested the Bosch to me concurred about the ease of programming/installation.

The NX panels sounds potentially very suitable for me, because I would like to add a couple of CCTV cameras to my setup and use one as a sort of front door camera. Are they made by GE?

**pca15** · 24-09-12, 02:30 AM

NX by a company Interlogix - used to be owned by GE. Supported in Australia by DAS (a Hills company).

As Watchdog says above, TouchNav is their Touchscreen codepad with video... but if you want more than one, and recording of them then you would also be looking for a DVR.

As above certainly something a licenced installer should be bought in to do the installing and programming - both CCTV/DVR and the Alarm System.

**downunderdan** · 24-09-12, 09:39 AM

Captaincaveman,

Your question is a bit like asking "Ford or Holden?" Everyone will have their own preferences and bias. Moreover, without knowing your situation it's hard to offer a worthwhile answer. Are you a gadget-head? Or do you just want something that "works". iPhone apps? Or keyfobs? Children? Seniors? All of these panels have pros and cons and I daresay price will drive some people's advocacy also. Also, the quality of the detectors and the installation is important. What does your gut tell you? A good system badly installed will perform worse than a 'bad' system well installed.

I'm going to raise a different question. Ultimately, they all do (more or less) the same thing and it's a personal preference. You won't know what you're missing in any case, so will probably be just as happy. However what are you doing about monitoring? You should give very serious consideration to a polled IP system which doesn't rely on phonelines. Each vendor may own, or subcontract to a monitoring centre. Who? Are they 'graded' (see ASIAL's for a current list). This gives you a higher level of confidence and has ramifications on your insurance also. If the monitoring centre isn't graded, show them the door. You will hear every excuse under the sun. Smile and pretend to listen politely while you close the door... Check the contract and know who you're dealing with. Don't find things out the hard way.

**AdRock** · 25-09-12, 09:03 AM

There is an alternative to the Ness M1, it's called the Easy 24, it's the exact same panel exept the Easy 24 doesn't have the voice unit attached. The voice unit is an audible feature that lets you know you've armed, disarmed, exit delay timings etc.
If your doing a lot of automation, roller doors, doors, turning lights on / off then the Easy 24 is great for that. If not the D16 would be just as suitable as a standard alarm, with a few programmable outputs for a couple of doors.
The navigator keypad is good, easy to use and looks neat. Ness have a good ip interface and smart phone app.
I've had some exposure to the Bosch Solution 16, but mainly the older panels, they seem to be fairly good also.

Hope this helps somewhat

**Uncle Kneebo** · 25-09-12, 09:44 AM

Downunder is spot on.
The problem with the security industry is we are hands on with the end user.
-Meaning we dont just screw in a power point or a light switch and what you see is what you get; we are interactive.
So you need to be proactive with exactly what your needs and future needs are. 'We' can sell you anything - IP/Iphone connectivity, CBUS/X10 control, access control ect but until you tell the estimators what features you want and dont want they really need to remain open in order to do the right thing by you. Then their price is high so they lose the job based on $$$ and sales pitch.

If you want an alarm that simply gets turned on, goes off and sets a siren your looking at something simple and cheap (not nessacerly nasty) So Hills/Bosch/Clipsal or Ness (shuddering at the last two but its personal preference)

If you want garage doors to open, lights on/off via iPhones ect your looking at Concept/Paradox/anything else in this vicinity.

**captaincaveman** · 25-09-12, 11:57 PM

sorry double post

**captaincaveman** · 26-09-12, 12:05 AM

Thanks everyone, when push came to shove I could not really justify the extra expense involved for the IP enabled panels.

So at the moment I'm on the verge of locking in the Crow Runner. The Ness stuff is nice but honestly did not really suit us.

The new Hills TouchNav Pro would be ideal in many respects for us but is not available yet (at least not in Adelaide) and TBH I'm not sure that being an early adopter would be that wise a move.

Appreciated the other advice and did take it, thanks.
- Monitoring by an A1 ASIAL control room
- Not bothered about the IP polling but thanks for the thought
- The Ness Easy24 is a great idea. However, when I actually came to think about what I actually NEED to automate, I really couldn't think of much.

**AdRock** · 26-09-12, 09:18 AM

The Crow Runner is a fine panel for a domestic install, just be sure to get the Runner 16, not the Runner 8. Apart from the obvious 8 extra zones you get, the 16 comes with 4 programmable outputs. The 8 only comes with 2 and they are taken up with the siren and strobe so If you want to hook up a roller door for example you'll need the extra outputs.
Oh and also get the LCD keypad, don't get an LED as it makes user programming more difficult.