Results 1 to 11 of 11

Thread: working out a false alarm?????

  1. #1
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    425
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 30 Times in 22 Posts
    Rep Power
    0
    Reputation
    490

    Default working out a false alarm?????

    How do you guy work out a false alarm say from a Pir.

    Easy way is to change pir.But if you get a call back???

    what testing options are there???



Look Here ->
  • #2
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    409
    Thanks
    15
    Thanked 100 Times in 80 Posts
    Rep Power
    200
    Reputation
    893

    Default

    You should be testing everything.

    Checking voltages, checking resistor, check resistance each cable core.

    Check evironmental issues, PIR age, position, time of alarm - night, day.

    Temperature of room, heaters, air conditioners near it, windows, curtains.

    Check the type of PIR, is it appropriate for that type of setting.

    Check for critters, rodents, lizards, frogs, cats, dogs, rats, possums, kids, etc

    check, check, check, check, check everything, exhaust all avenues.

  • The Following User Says Thank You to bet2win For This Useful Post:

    downunderdan (06-10-12)

  • #3
    Senior Member
    intelliGEORGE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Sydney, AUSTRALIA
    Age
    43
    Posts
    4,106
    Thanks
    884
    Thanked 1,484 Times in 691 Posts
    Rep Power
    478
    Reputation
    7236

    Default

    1. Obtain customer feedback.
    2. Review alarm history, locally and at the CMS. Also check the log book onsite for any other occurrences from previous jobs.
    3. Check age of the device and replace if necessary e.g. Smokie >5 yrs old.
    4. Review environmental conditions.
    5. Review location and relocate if required.
    6. Check voltages, resistance, terminations and cable continuity.
    7. Check input on PCB, swap with another to validate input.
    Last edited by intelliGEORGE; 06-10-12 at 01:59 AM.

  • The Following User Says Thank You to intelliGEORGE For This Useful Post:

    downunderdan (07-10-12)

  • #4
    Banned
    watchdog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    2,966
    Thanks
    136
    Thanked 869 Times in 514 Posts
    Rep Power
    0
    Reputation
    8320

    Cool

    I asked the same question a while back but heard nothing that would change the way I do it. You can always isolate the sections ( panel , cabling , detector ) & eventually prove which is the cause. The trouble is the time taken to adequately prove each section & the number of visits required. Asking the customer to pay for 3 visits just to prove a faulty $50 PIR is a sure recipe for an argument. As previously stated it comes down to gathering as much info as possible & then use your brain. Unfortunately there are many people who will not admit to having a rodent problem & if you can't get accurate info then you can't make an educated guess. I let the customer know exactly what the options are & the likely cost. Generally , least likely is the panel , followed by the cabling (unless there is a known rodent problem) , with the PIR most likely. It is also important to take into consideration the quality of the gear.
    I will most likely comment on the age of the PIR & chances of it being the problem , then replace it. The customer knows that if the problem persists then I will need to come back & address the cabling. The cost of the PIR can usually be included in the overall cost by this stage. Remember it is the labour that costs the dollars.

  • The Following User Says Thank You to watchdog For This Useful Post:

    downunderdan (07-10-12)

  • #5
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    425
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 30 Times in 22 Posts
    Rep Power
    0
    Reputation
    490

    Default Thanks checking for alarm false alarms

    Thanks to all that replyed before to my question!!

  • #6
    Senior Member
    downunderdan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Sydney Metropolitan
    Posts
    2,497
    Thanks
    163
    Thanked 601 Times in 422 Posts
    Rep Power
    365
    Reputation
    4649

    Default

    I routinely advise anyone with PIRs over 5 years old, to consider ripping them out without even thinking about it.

    The new technology is so much better and inexpensive, it's a no-brainer. The older ones were often not that great due to higher costs (i.e. the installers would put in the worst gear around as it was all they were willing to spring for).

    Yellowing plastic and brown coloured glass often helps make the argument. Consider it a return on your investment in a service call. Hey, while you're upgrading your PIRs, why not have a shiny new panel with an IP communicator.

    Voila: Another old crusty panel in the bin. Victory is mine.

  • #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    503
    Thanks
    92
    Thanked 50 Times in 37 Posts
    Rep Power
    219
    Reputation
    293

    Default

    I see a lot of the very old C&K PIRs when im out shopping etc and cant help my self but to do a motion test , they were hopeless then and hopeless now

  • #8
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    333
    Thanks
    14
    Thanked 58 Times in 55 Posts
    Rep Power
    187
    Reputation
    604

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tastech View Post
    I see a lot of the very old C&K PIRs when im out shopping etc and cant help my self but to do a motion test , they were hopeless then and hopeless now
    Maybe the walk-test LED was disabled, since they have been used in a commercial situation? That may explain their apparent "hopelessness" during your walk-testing.

    Surely because you see a lot of them, tells you they were a good detector in their time. I've used them in the past, and found them to be quite reliable. From memory, C&K were the ones who invented the "dual-tech" detector (infra-red and microwave) that everyone else copied.

  • #9
    Senior Member bss904's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    NOT in Thailand
    Posts
    1,110
    Thanks
    523
    Thanked 251 Times in 153 Posts
    Rep Power
    294
    Reputation
    2964

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by alarmman View Post
    Maybe the walk-test LED was disabled, since they have been used in a commercial situation? That may explain their apparent "hopelessness" during your walk-testing.

    Surely because you see a lot of them, tells you they were a good detector in their time. I've used them in the past, and found them to be quite reliable. From memory, C&K were the ones who invented the "dual-tech" detector (infra-red and microwave) that everyone else copied.
    @alarmman, and if your that knowledgeable then you would also know that heaps of the 400 series detectors at the begining had to be replaced due to a manufacturing problem with the microwaves that caused constant f/a's. Lots were used due to special deals being done on pricing, not because they were anything special. The company I worked for at time had to replace about 300 of them. On just about every commercial site that had the misfortune to have these pieces of crap installed, we were instructed by management to replace them with cx70's.
    Some companies buy equipment based on price not the quality of the items which is sad for the poor end user.

  • #10
    Senior Member
    downunderdan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Sydney Metropolitan
    Posts
    2,497
    Thanks
    163
    Thanked 601 Times in 422 Posts
    Rep Power
    365
    Reputation
    4649

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tastech View Post
    I see a lot of the very old C&K PIRs when im out shopping etc and cant help my self but to do a motion test , they were hopeless then and hopeless now
    Yes. They came in a kit. 3 shitty PIRs, a shitty panel and a shitty keypad.

    I vaguely recall there was talk of an optional upgrade from shitty to lousy but I'm not sure if it was ever released.

    Quote Originally Posted by alarmman View Post
    Maybe the walk-test LED was disabled, since they have been used in a commercial situation? That may explain their apparent "hopelessness" during your walk-testing.
    I have never understood the validity of disabling LEDs except in bedrooms. One might argue that Rob could 'walk test' the detectors to learn blind spots. Ever tried to defeat a Bosch Pro Series by walking, crawling etc? On the other hand, I'd prefer the end-user could see if there was a problem by the absence of the blinking LED, rather than waiting for a Sensor Watch trouble to occur.

    Quote Originally Posted by alarmman View Post
    Surely because you see a lot of them, tells you they were a good detector in their time.
    Hmm... You see a lot of cheap cars on the road too.
    Last edited by downunderdan; 08-10-12 at 12:02 AM.

  • #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    503
    Thanks
    92
    Thanked 50 Times in 37 Posts
    Rep Power
    219
    Reputation
    293

    Default

    Give me credit Alarm Man no the LEDs were operating but I was amazed at the range some still had when I went into a business to buy something on Sunday

    Thats them Downunder Dan they were PIR only and about 50mm Square

  • Bookmarks

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •