YOU Don't Pay You Don't Get

**techy21** · 06-11-12, 10:23 PM

I can believe how many companys are looking for
good techs with lots of knowledge but don't want to pay well.
theres companys like the big ones that make around 100 000 000 a year and still want to pay average wage.
Its simple pay your techs well get good works and great guys.
Pay low you get guys learn the systems then just move on.........

**downunderdan** · 06-11-12, 11:39 PM

It is my strong belief that award wages stifle innovation and excellence in this country.

There is no incentive to excel when you will get paid just as much as an incompetent disinterested co-worker. Were anyone to suggest modernising the system to support a modern economy (where we aren't all factory workers employed by an eeevil Dickensian "boss") they will be immediately crucified by organisations who have spent years propping up some of the most incompetent people in our country.

**watchdog** · 07-11-12, 07:47 AM

Originally Posted by downunderdan

It is my strong belief that award wages stifle innovation and excellence in this country.
.

Award rates are only a reference. There is nothing stopping them paying above award wages if the will is there. The trouble is the will is only to maximize profits because of the addiction to "growth"

**Hound-Dog** · 07-11-12, 09:00 AM

I agree with the saying ' you get what you pay for'. Of course there are differences at times, particularly when times are tough. Sometimes you take what you can get, and that may not be what you want. To get what you want, and keep them, you need to make them feel wanted and needed. One way is to pay more in wages and benefits, but what about other things?
In America, they pay for your health insurance, so you can get medical assistance if needed. In Australia, we tax our workers to pay for that!
One company I worked for had medical staff on duty at the factory. If any worker was sick, they would come to work to see the doctor for free, and if sick enough, the doctor would send them home! Now that is a great idea, and more companies need to take heed. Don't bribe your workers to stay with your company! Make the workers feel wanted and needed! The results will be amazing, and I reckon the profits will be too!

**pca15** · 07-11-12, 09:03 AM

Indeed - however if we do not apply ourselves at which ever level we are at in which ever company we work in, we are just as bad as the boss/manager. We are and can only be accountable for our own output and integrity. Be encouraged as I have seen that the cream rises to the top and is rewarded appropriately (or head hunted!!) Little things like attitude and presentation (not just clothing but workmanship, dealing with customers and other staff) are very important and often a big part of why people are advanced - in addition to, of course, their technical ability.

We had a technician working for us who appeared not the best as we had a bit of negative feedback on him. All turned out to be combination of presentation - uniform not tidy, tools and van a mess and - major with the customers was the way he spoke - especially on the phone (to other techs when onsite - F this F that etc) they and his written dockets were chicken scrawl and fill of spelling mistakes etc. His ability and knowledge of product and skill as a technician (which was good) was tared completely by these things - both to us as colleagues and customers.

I am not sure how you would come to the surface and "earn" more... but going above and beyond the call of duty? Though I understand - it is frustrating to not be rewarded for effort. At least on wages there overtime...

**pca15** · 07-11-12, 09:11 AM

Someone started another idea just before I left that company - was incentives for service techs to up-sell the jobs. i.e. service tech attends for battery change but notices renovations have happened and up-sells extra detector and remote kit - and gets $$ extra for the up-sell. One tech was even asking for referrals using the existing scheme (3 months free monitoring) as an incentive for the customer and any he got he got the commission that would have been due the sales guys.
Made for a bit more cash and challenge for the day - and if you did not want to OK also.

**downunderdan** · 07-11-12, 10:10 PM

Originally Posted by watchdog

Award rates are only a reference. There is nothing stopping them paying above award wages if the will is there. The trouble is the will is only to maximize profits because of the addiction to "growth"

Part of the problem with fixed awards, is it becomes very difficult for companies to pay staff more, without increasing their prices, which in turn drives customers elsewhere when they can't tell the difference. This is a large part of why the manpower security sector is so shambolic. Everyone's paying the same thing and anyone who wants to charge more in order to pay staff better, will potentially go out of business.

I disagree with your disdain for "growth". Any business that isn't run to generate a profit, is not a business. It's a charity. It should be the aim of any company to grow. This does not need to be at the expense of staff either. Sadly, one side of the political spectrum is still holding onto this Dickensian idea that "bosses" are all eeeevil and want to exploit the "workers" (and/or eat them).

In reality, it often works the other way around too. There are some terrible bosses, sure, but there are just as many if not more simply terrible employees, who are guaranteed an income and stability they simply don't deserve while their employer stands to lose plenty more.

Now this isn't the same as a "minimum wage" I might add, and I have no desire to see anyone slide into poverty. However incentives drive success and a rigid system takes away the opportunity for such incentives.

**Drift** · 08-11-12, 01:08 AM

So Techy21, what do you consider to be a 'decent wage' for a 'decent tech'. Second to that, what do you consider to be a decent tech?

Lets say you're a tech on $60k + super. That's roughly $70k in costs per year (including annual leave and super)+ another $3k ish for insurances depending on your business taking it to $73k. Throw in running a vehicle at around $15k conservatively and we're now at $88k + another $1k for phone to $89k. So, assuming you work a full year and have no time off except public holidays, that leaves 50 weeks of productivity. At that point your break even is $1780p/w or $356per day simply to cover the techs costs without taking into account business overheads. If we take into account that you'll have your 4 weeks annual leave, that leaves 46 weeks worth of productive time. Or $1935p/w $386per day. If that same tech is to pay his way, contribute to the running costs of the business and be profitable (thus worthy of having on board), they'd have to generate a minimum of $850 per day in most medium sized businesses and even that isn't a great deal.

I really don't think some techs have any understanding of what it costs to run a business these days. With the ever increasing costs of insurance, petrol, electricity etc on top of everyone wanting more money, its tough out there. Now, I'm all for paying a fair price for all staff comensurate with their experiece, work ethic and attitude. However, I'm not about to pay top dollar until such time as someone's proven themselves worth it. I have to say that the attitude of some techs out there at the moment abuses the nose hairs more than grandads sunday morning trip to the mens.

I could prattle on a whole lot more about how those same techs that want silly money refuse to fill out there time sheets correctly and charge additional time on site because the company charges it's client's too much or about their failure to get to site on time etc but that's a discussion for another thread.

**downunderdan** · 08-11-12, 01:17 PM

Drift, wait until you meet you first Generation-Y who was fed a constant diet of "You are a star and you can be anything you want" since pre-school. They usually expect six figures on day one out of school, will spend at least 3hrs a day on Facebook and have been told that statistically they will change jobs every two years, so they do.

Good times!

**porkop** · 08-11-12, 07:14 PM

I worked for a company that started with "contract" style casual rates with no uniformity. Eventually they negotiated a teir based system,

Level 4 - join the company - Pay $

Level 3 - Pass Probationary period. - Pay $ + 1

Level 2 - Meet certain criteria - Pay - $ + 2

Level 1 - Experience gained - Pay $ + 3

Worked very well.

just my 2c worth.

**pca15** · 09-11-12, 11:20 AM

Originally Posted by Drift

$1935p/w $386per day. If that same tech is to pay his way, contribute to the running costs of the business and be profitable (thus worthy of having on board), they'd have to generate a minimum of $850 per day in most medium sized businesses and even that isn't a great deal.

Spot on Drift - we have calculated $600 per day to cover more expensive techs and those on trainee ships etc with extra time off for TAFE. I have had this discussion sitting around a table at a training course - Not a single one of the guys on wages had any idea of the charge out target to cover costs! Run your own company and those sorts of considerations/discussions are very important - right after safety!
Either no one had bothered or these guys had not listened - or as Dan suggests - they thought it was an entitlement...

**amiryhery** · 11-03-13, 12:09 AM

Interesting, so the solution could be the techs to be as well working as individual and for the company to ask their services when they need them ?

That mean more competitively more casual job (extra job) more money for the techs no ?

You think how much should pay a company who want a techs to install a whole buildings new physical access security ?
it takes what 6 Hours ?
should pay them how much ?
I'm pretty sure company could pay up to 4000$ no ?

As techs anyone will be interested by this ?

**Drift** · 11-03-13, 12:25 AM

Rethink that post when the crack wears off.

**downunderdan** · 11-03-13, 09:45 PM

Originally Posted by amiryhery

Interesting, so the solution could be the techs to be as well working as individual and for the company to ask their services when they need them ?

Sounds like you're skating very close to 'sham contracting'.

You think how much should pay a company who want a techs to install a whole buildings new physical access security ?
it takes what 6 Hours ?

Plus the time spent working out what you are trying to say. Maybe another 8-10.

I'm pretty sure company could pay up to 4000$ no ?

No.

**Thistlewedge** · 12-03-13, 11:30 AM

Originally Posted by watchdog

Award rates are only a reference. There is nothing stopping them paying above award wages if the will is there."

Spot on. I've worked for plenty of the wowsers who tow the line (lie) that paying above award is not an option. It's a cop out. I'm pleased to say that the company I work nowdays pay us what we're worth, meaning some of us here are above award. The guys who just plod along and don't show any consistent motivation above the average get paid award. That's why I've been with this company for going on 10 years and quite a few others have been here longer. It's a shame not all companies reward their people but such companies are out there, you've just gotta find them. Good luck

**xr5adam** · 12-03-13, 11:40 PM

I am a contractor so from my perspective if I do not show I am worth it the company I work for will just stop giving me work. Without naming the company, there are techs that are fulltime and are on good money who just refuse to do perimeter jobs and try and up sell wireless on every job, and then do not do the job as no wireless gear on board,

The company instead of pulling the techs inline, offers them a payrise, I really can not see how this will work. My other pet hate is sales reps, had a 6 detector job, was given 4 hours to install it, glad I was not on a point system for this one.

**amiryhery** · 15-03-13, 12:44 AM

Originally Posted by downunderdan

Sounds like you're skating very close to 'sham contracting'.
Plus the time spent working out what you are trying to say. Maybe another 8-10.
No.

Another 8-10 hours spent working out ???>?
What are you talking about, you must didn't understand me,
You disconnect the old rfid reader you connect the new one and that it, so i don't see how you could be 8 hours out, Front door or the parking may be :-)

What i can see is that most of the times there is 4 techs working to install around 10 readers and controller and 6 hours later all is done.
So i believe that is a easy job who any open cabler can do. So actually 400$ max per techs will be fine.

**downunderdan** · 15-03-13, 10:15 AM

My hovercraft is full of eels.

**bss904** · 15-03-13, 10:45 AM

Originally Posted by amiryhery

Another 8-10 hours spent working out ???>?
What are you talking about, you must didn't understand me,
You disconnect the old rfid reader you connect the new one and that it, so i don't see how you could be 8 hours out, Front door or the parking may be :-)

What i can see is that most of the times there is 4 techs working to install around 10 readers and controller and 6 hours later all is done.
So i believe that is a easy job who any open cabler can do. So actually 400$ max per techs will be fine.

amiryhery you obviously live in the land of fruit loops and still believe in fairies. You are totally clueless when it comes to life in the real world, running a business or dealing with customers.

You have missed so many elements that are required to sucessfully complete an installation such as asbuilts, paperwork, programming, demonstration, testing etc.

I doubt whether you have any skills to configure and program a controller in the time you say you could do the whole installation in.

Time to dream up another get rich scheme, and don't stop taking your medication as it is obvious you still need it.

**amiryhery** · 15-03-13, 02:44 PM

Originally Posted by bss904

amiryhery you obviously live in the land of fruit loops and still believe in fairies. You are totally clueless when it comes to life in the real world, running a business or dealing with customers.

You have missed so many elements that are required to sucessfully complete an installation such as asbuilts, paperwork, programming, demonstration, testing etc.

I doubt whether you have any skills to configure and program a controller in the time you say you could do the whole installation in.

Time to dream up another get rich scheme, and don't stop taking your medication as it is obvious you still need it.

BSS904 sound like you rage a bit

and if i were you i think at twice before saying anything, it's appear that you are an idiot and like to insult people. You can be premium user or not that don't allow you to post such answer.

I can say that you are the one who don't know anything and must probably fear that someone better than you come in the market...
Anyway i don;t care of your post good luck in your poor life.