Reply With Quoteexited (11-02-14)
I worked shift work for over 30 years. I worked in the computer industry, chiefly mainframe operations and management. Compared to some, the conditions I worked in were luxurious. Nevertheless, ANY rotating shift cycle takes a real toll on the body and mind. My sleep patterns are still up shit creek and probably always will be.
For this I was paid a loading. I worked for both private industry and the government. This work HAD to be done. There was no thought of shutting down on weekends and public holidays or at night for either party, especially for large corporations like IBM or Employment departments. Despite it being computing it was extremely labor intensive in the early days. Long hours (especially at IBM) were the norm. Living on coffee and Coke (the drinking kind) for 12 hours a day was necessary. I'm glad that there were no Red Bull drinks around then or I probably would have been into those too. You were basically paid for when the shit hit the fan, so being awake and alert was essential. No one in their right mind would string out their sleep cycles and screw up a normal life for free.
With the advent of workplace agreements, we did away with penalty rates in exchange for a flat loading. The money remained on a par, but all the variations disappeared. Then processing speeds and automation tools did away with much of that in that industry. Just in time for me to have a heart attack (chiefly caused by heavy cigarette usage) and take a redundancy.
I would not have done it without compensation. Any discussion about it to anyone who has ever lived that life will elicit the same response.
The fact that there's a highway to hell and a stairway to heaven says a lot about the anticipated traffic flow.
exited (11-02-14)
I'm not exactly sure what these penalties are, but I do have some general comments. No one that works hard show "just get by." What is the point in working hard; or even living for that matter, if all you have to show for it is on time bills? The USA is heading for a major disaster for just this reason. The only way the average Joe can have any fun in life, is ring up their credit card; which creates stress in the future.
The US is on the verge of total explosion. Our rate of tax evasion is skyrocketing; people are under unrelenting stress. Healthcare is not only forced, but it's becoming more expensive; college will cost you a lifetime of student loan debt. Something is going to give; I'm willing to be within the next 15 to 20 years; if we're not completely bankrupt, there will be some kind of violent civil unrest. One thing fairly unique to Americans; is armament.
Another thing your forgetting is that as far as I know all penalty rates and allowances other than certain 'Expenses' are all Taxable so if you do a day's overtime, that can actually push you into a higher Tax bracket.
I have spoken to some who have/did work for the Walmart chain in the USA and they all said there was no such thing as weekends, nights or public holidays penalty rates.
If your shift was 6pm to 2am Thursday to Tuesday, you got your wage rate and that was it.
Although you were considered 'Full Time', the company could dismiss you at any time without reason the same as anyone who was a Casual.
From those I spoke to in the US said these conditions were the same in nearly all forms of employment.
I stand unequivicably behind everything I say, I just dont ever remember saying it !!
Hi diavalo13666,
I would be interested to know whether you are an employee, or are you the employer, if you care to comment?
Thanks
Viewer i am self employed now and have been for 8 yrs.
the details i gave was from when i was employed as a supervisor setting up
and running several contracts in the tweed and Sydney.
i left after i became fed up with what i was seeing from both the employer
and employees and the final straw for me was when the company had to
re-tender and won the contract on one site but with more work and less hours.
The company called me in and told me what i now had in terms of finances to work with
and what the new tender covered .
they then preceded to tell me that as its a new contract all staff would become casual
and i would be employing more staff all with a maximum of 3 hrs per shift and maximum 15 hrs
per week.their lawyer was there and explained that they had investigated the new setup and was
all legal.
I left the meeting and did as they asked but after 3 months i flew down to Sydney and told them
what they did was pittyfull all they said was we employ people to make as much money as we
can and if we can earn that by using the laws to our advantage even if it sucks live with it.
so with that i walked out and went down to jarvis bay had a fish and never went back.
I would never employe anyone after what i witnessed as a boss .Now when i need staff i get a
subbie its simple he works when done i pay he goes away till i need them again.
Last edited by fandtm666; 07-02-14 at 03:09 PM.
dont say linux if i wanted it id install it
Godzilla (08-02-14)
Thanks mate...I wasn't sure if the earlier info you gave was current or past tense...I know now.
It's a tough area...We get some bad unions, we get some bad bosses. The problem is, we all tarnish them both with the one brush, rather than highlighting them equally when they work happily together side by side.
Equally.....people already worse off than the bad penalty rate deal.............like I said in this thread..they are ALL f*cked.Originally Posted by viewer
Today..............paywalled..
Burglary with the lot: Opposition Leader Bill Shorten (pictured eating a sausage sandwich at Election Day), has been urged to start opposing union deals. Picture Kym Smith
’Dodgy’ union wage deals exposed: Fast-food, hospitality and retail workers ripped off on Sundays
EXCLUSIVE Andrew Clennell, The Daily Telegraph
March 20, 2017 12:11pm
LABOR and the unions have been branded hypocrites for trying to block the proposed cuts to weekend penalty rates while at the same time backing wage deals that allow fast-food #giants like McDonald’s and KFC to pay their staff less than the Fair Work Commission’s suggested new pay level.
Union-sanctioned enterprise bargaining agreements mean many workers at the #nation’s large fast-food chains earn about $3 an hour less now than they would even under the FWC’s lower Sunday penalty rates.
Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull will today release #details of how union pay deals have short-changed fast-food, hospitality and retail workers by cutting deals with the big chains so their staff receive up to $10 an hour less on Sundays than family-run businesses.
Mr Turnbull will also move to ban secret payments between businesses and unions of the kind revealed by the Royal Commission into Trade Unions involving Opposition Leader Bill Shorten’s former union, the Australian Workers’ Union, when the Labor leader was at the helm.
Mr Turnbull’s laws will involve maximum sentences of 10 years in jail and a $900,000 fine for individuals who infringe them, and a $4.5 million fine for corporations.
The Heydon royal commission uncovered a raft of payments between employers and unions, which it called “corrupting benefits” designed to ensure companies favourable treatment from unions.
It is estimated that more than 250,000 workers employed in the retail and fast-food sector receive a total of at least $300 million a year less, due to below-award EBAs.
Government figures show a family chicken shop pays its staff $29.16 an hour on Sundays — more than the KFC rate of just $21.19 an hour.
A family takeaway must also pay $29.16 an hour, while the McDonald’s Sunday rate in some regions is just $21.08.
Bed and breakfast businesses must pay $31.87 an hour — $10 more than the $21.63 paid by a five-star hotel. And while a family greengrocer is forced to cough up $37.05 an hour, Woolworths pays just $31.79.
Bill Shorten’s war on Sunday penalty rate changes has been torpedoed by revelations his union backers have signed deals leaving thousands of fast-food workers shortchanged.
Fast food chains like McDonalds Union are able to pay workers about $3 an hour less than they would receive under the new Sunday penalty rates thanks to Union-sanctioned enterprise bargaining agreements.
The differences are all due to union-sanctioned pay deals with big businesses.
There are several enterprise agreements across the country that fail the Better Off Overall Than The Award Test — or the former No Disadvantage Test.
In one instance, the royal commission into union corruption revealed packaging giant Visy was making payments worth $190,000 to the AWU. Research by Assistant Minister for Industry Craig Laundy shows that at the same time it was #underpaying its workers
Small business owners like Melina and Frank Michalopoulos, who run Big Bunz, a burger shop in Malabar, pay workers a higher Sunday rate than big chains like McDonalds and KFC. Picture: Toby Zerna
“Bill Shorten is a complete hypocrite when it comes to penalty rates,” Mr Turnbull told The Daily Telegraph.
“He trashes the independence of the Fair Work Commission that he helped establish and whose decisions he pledged to support, while ignoring deals between unions and big business that leave many workers up to $10 an hour worse off on a Sunday.
“The government will not stand by and let union bosses and big business rip off workers, including some of the most vulnerable workers — 16- and 17-year-old students.
“If Bill Shorten is serious about protecting the take-home pay of low-paid workers, he should call on the unions and big business to back-pay every worker who is worse off because of these dodgy deals.”
A spokesman for Mr Shorten said: “Bill’s proud of his record putting workers first. All the agreements Bill negotiated were good for workers.”
The PM’s attack comes as the Coalition #cut Labor’s lead in the opinion polls to 52-48 and lifted Mr Turnbull’s personal ratings, according to the latest Newspoll published in The Australian newspaper.
Assistant Minister for Industry Craig Laundy accused Labor figures of making a career off the back of doing the wrong thing by workers and underpaying them.
The Coalition’s primary vote was also sharply up, from 34 per cent to 37 per cent.
Mr Laundy’s research revealed that if the FWC decision to cut penalty rates were in place today, a small business in the fast-food sector #operating under the terms of the award would pay a Level 1 worker $184.68 for a 7.6 hour shift on a Sunday.
The same Level 1 worker putting in the same hours for one of the big chains would be paid $161.04 at KFC (Queensland and NSW) and $158.54 at McDonald’s (Tasmania).
Mr Laundy, a former hotelier, said he was angry because he always paid award wages but the unions had allowed situations in other workplaces where this did not happen.
“I and every other small to medium sized business in this country operates under the award,” he said.
“I’ll be buggered if I’m going to be accused of being unfair to workers by people in Labor who have made a career off the back of doing the wrong thing by workers and underpaying them.”
Mr Turnbull’s move comes after the government was asked to make a submission to the FWC on implementing its decision to reduce Sunday penalty rates. It is understood that the government submission will recommend the phasing in of the new penalty rates over a period of years.
SMALL business owners have slammed the fast food giants’ sweetheart deal with the unions, which allows them to pay workers less on Sundays.
Frank Michalopoulos, who runs the Big Bunz burger shop in Malabar with his wife and mother, said it was hard to grow their business when they had to pay staff more on Sundays.
“It’s successful but how successful can it get?” he said.
Melina Michalopoulos said their family worked every Sunday because staff wages were too costly on that day. “We’re lucky because there is no competition from big chains in this area,” she said.
Marina Moreira and Veronica Abreu working at Silvas Portuguese chicken shop in Petersham.
Mrs Da Silva said they employed about 10 casual staff but the cost of Sunday penalty rates weekends made it hard to break even.
“We might be busier but once you take all the pay, it doesn’t end up very much at all,” Mrs Da Silva said.
She said it was unfair big businesses like KFC were able to pay their workers less: “They (pay rates) should be even, or support given to small businesses.”
The fact that there's a highway to hell and a stairway to heaven says a lot about the anticipated traffic flow.
I don't know if Bill is in bed with this union, but i have a sneaky suspicion that due to there membership numbers he would have to be!
Ladies and gentlemans i introduce you to the right wing, catholic union, biggest hypocrites of all time
There is a fine line between "Hobby" and "Madness"
enf (20-03-17)
That IS interesting...not really the same issue, although it amply demonstrates the duplicity of those we elect AND highlights the hopeless situation we are in (I was going to say "find ourselves in", but in truth we put ourselves in this situation).
allover, I think that was the union HE lead...ICAC found he sold out his own workers for money but that he didn't do anything illegal, just immoral. I liken it to banks who don't actually break the law, but rather act unconscionably and immorally. Anyway, when caught for fringe illegal acts they just cough up the money.
The fact that there's a highway to hell and a stairway to heaven says a lot about the anticipated traffic flow.
The point is a lot of Sunday workers are going to lose income. That's all that matters. This thread proves what I said in the other thread. The whole deal about cutting Sunday rates started with the Abbott govt.
Just for the record, the last FWA review in 2012/13 did not reduce penalty rates. At all. This time they've been slashed for Sunday workers. It's a pretty big paycut and not justified - after all, what has changed in the area of the economy or workplace relations in the last four years? Nothing. Apart from two things. We elected an Abbott Govt and the cost of living has blown out.
Neither of those things even remotely justify cutting worker's pay. Quite the opposite.
So that adds to my claim that the Govt of the day DOES have a significant level of influence over the outcome.
Whilst I broadly agree PZ, they were'nt "slashed"...do you work for a tabloid or something? So you believe that the FWC is compromised?
And the point is that many workers ALREADY lost MORE income than the rate decrease because they were sold out by their unions, the chief culprit seeming to be the union that was run by our next PM. Trust?.....pfffft!
Between the morally bankrupt thieves in this government, and the morally bankrupt thieves in caucus to be the next government, what hope do we have?
An appearance on TV the other day by Anthony Albanese and Christopher Pyne together defending their pay rises, superannuation, and perks illustrated that perfectly....
The fact that there's a highway to hell and a stairway to heaven says a lot about the anticipated traffic flow.
Cops, Nurses and emergency workers
Hi all,
Not really a thread I need to get involved in, but out of interest, I wonder what the Coppers and Nurses think about getting weekend penalty rates reduced? especially when weekend work is compulsory in their jobs.
Buy cheap and pay often, - there is no substitute for stupidity.
You wipe your bum after each crap, why don't you clean your teeth after every meal?
There is no shame in being uneducated nor in being stupid.
The true shame lies in knowing that you are and doing nothing about it.
Only the living worry about dying.
To the tobacco addicts - Smoke more and die sooner, so I can breathe fresh air. Thank you.
Education is the only sure cure for religion
Coppers and Nurses are unaffected as far as I know.
Yes enf. I do believe the FWC is compromised in this case. Partly because they didn't do it last time under a Labor Govt. Partly because the decision is around 9 months late. Partly because their vice-president Graeme Watson left the commission with plenty of disgruntlement. Mostly because of the reports I posted in the other thread.
No I don't work for a tabloid. A double figure pay cut % is a slash by any definition.
I don't have a problem with blaming Bill Shorten for dodgy pay deals in the past. I don't have a problem with blaming the Coalition for abolishing penalty rates altogether in the past. I don't have a problem with blaming Malcolm Turnbull for endorsing a Coles EBA in question time last year that turned out to be so dodgy it was illegal and had to be cancelled.
What I do have a problem with... is right here and now - lowest paid workers loosing money because they work weekends. That sort of thing just gives me the shits
I thought all Turnbull did was agree publicly to an EBA that was agreed by both Coles AND the Union...yes it was invalid, and he should have been better advised (although I detest Tbull and always have, he like everyone else in parliament depends totally on advisors), but I wasn't aware he was directly a PART of a negotiated sellout that had nothing to do with him OR the government. This dodgy deal was exposed by an employee who had the nouse to see it for what it was, AND the courage to make a stand.Coppers and Nurses are unaffected as far as I know.
Yes enf. I do believe the FWC is compromised in this case. Partly because they didn't do it last time under a Labor Govt. Partly because the decision is around 9 months late. Partly because their vice-president Graeme Watson left the commission with plenty of disgruntlement. Mostly because of the reports I posted in the other thread.
No I don't work for a tabloid. A double figure pay cut % is a slash by any definition.
I don't have a problem with blaming Bill Shorten for dodgy pay deals in the past. I don't have a problem with blaming the Coalition for abolishing penalty rates altogether in the past. I don't have a problem with blaming Malcolm Turnbull for endorsing a Coles EBA in question time last year that turned out to be so dodgy it was illegal and had to be cancelled.
What I do have a problem with... is right here and now - lowest paid workers loosing money because they work weekends. That sort of thing just gives me the shits
I get the anger, I really do. As a 35 year shift worker I sympathise.
The fact that there's a highway to hell and a stairway to heaven says a lot about the anticipated traffic flow.
The Hookers Union
Bill Shorten, a dedicated Union Puppet was
attending a convention in Kings Cross and
decided to check out the local brothels.
When he got to the first one, he asked theMadam, "Is this a union house?"
"No," she replied, "I'm sorry it isn't."
"So, if I pay you $100, what cut do the girls get?"
"The house gets $80 and the girls get $20," she said.
Offended at such unfair dealings, Bill stomped off down the street in search of a more equitable, hopefully unionised shop. His search continued until finally he reached a brothel where the Madam responded, "Why yes Bill, this is a union house. We observe all union rules."
Bill asked, "If I pay you $100, what cut do the girls get?"
"The girls get $80 and the house gets $20."
"That's more like it!" Bill said.
He handed the Madam $100, looked around the room, and pointed to a stunningly attractive green-eyed blonde.
"I'd like her," Bill said.
"I'm sure you would, sir," said the Madam. Then she gesturedto a 92-year old woman in the corner, "but Ethel here has77 years seniority and according to union rules, she's next!"
I'm out of my mind, but feel free to leave a message...
crazy (22-03-17)
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