Reply With QuoteThat's the answer...they are not being forced to open.Originally Posted by admin
A rhetoric question ? You would be paying what the award obliges you to pay. Unless you know of any employers that pay an extra $20 an hour ? If so, they must have really great employees.
Given that food and beverage is the main product in the hospitality industry, what would the odds be of the entire state (and country for that matter) having the wrong business model ? So yeah, I would call garbage on that statement.
Closing their shops for decades to try and win an argument is as absurd an argument as your last claim. Employers can want whatever they like, its not going to happen. Its hard enough to get an Australian to turn up for a job as it is, let alone without penalty rates.Employers want all penalty rates gone and they will continue to use the closed shop argument to get their way.
Well for one, my wife doesnt work in the hospitality industry so we are not losing 40% of our household income. Even is she was, that fact that Sunday only has changed from 1.75 to 1.50 would certainly not mean a 40% loss. Unless you have several Sundays in your week. And for 2, as I mentioned, like everywhere else the cafe down the road doesnt stay open 24/7 and never will because they simply cant make a profit 24/7.Are you happy to lose 40% of your household income so the cafe down the road can stay open 24/7 ?
We could of course simply put a Sunday surcharge on everything if its that important to force employers to open. The facts are this - if you cant make any money on a Sunday, you dont open your door. If you are a one man owner operator, you only have to worry about yourself. If you have to employ people on penalty rates and it costs more than what you earn, you dont open to lose money.
That's the answer...they are not being forced to open.
If you are paying $30 an hour for Sunday work in the hospitality industry you are paying what the award obliges you to pay so it's not a rhetorical question. There is no point in using $50 a hour as an argument to reduce penalty rates if you aren't obliged to pay that much.
So you're saying that because a shop sells food and beverage it is automatically viable regardless of where it is, how much competition there is, how little custom it generates or how inept the owner operator is?Given that food and beverage is the main product in the hospitality industry, what would the odds be of the entire state (and country for that matter) having the wrong business model ? So yeah, I would call garbage on that statement.
If you attempt to have ten pie shops in one street then it's a pretty safe bet that nine of them are using the wrong business model.
Given that we had 4 years of no penalty rates thanks to the Howard Government I'd say your reply has more garbage than anything posted in this thread so far.Closing their shops for decades to try and win an argument is as absurd an argument as your last claim. Employers can want whatever they like, its not going to happen.
Given that there are plenty of people who work on Sundays without penalty rates I'd say that comment is erroneous.Its hard enough to get an Australian to turn up for a job as it is, let alone without penalty rates.
That has nothing to do with the comment you were quoting. The comment was... "employers want all penalty rates gone". That means hospitality, retail, tourism, manufacturing... everything. If your wife is earning penalty rates, she is the bane of all business in this country according to some of the absurd commentary that you seem to be supporting.Well for one, my wife doesnt work in the hospitality industry so we are not losing 40% of our household income. Even is she was, that fact that Sunday only has changed from 1.75 to 1.50 would certainly not mean a 40% loss.
Technically, I have two Sundays a weekUnless you have several Sundays in your week.
Of course they can't. To attempt to do so would mean they have the wrong business model unless of course you want to call garbage on that statement as wellAnd for 2, as I mentioned, like everywhere else the cafe down the road doesnt stay open 24/7 and never will because they simply cant make a profit 24/7.
So don't open the shop then. I don't care whether your shop stays open or closes as long as it doesn't affect the rights of other employees. At the end of the day there needs to be a value placed on weekend and/or late night work. If you don't agree with it that's your prerogative but the facts are the penalty rates in your household income are a target for termination as are mine and everyone else's.We could of course simply put a Sunday surcharge on everything if its that important to force employers to open. The facts are this - if you cant make any money on a Sunday, you dont open your door. If you are a one man owner operator, you only have to worry about yourself. If you have to employ people on penalty rates and it costs more than what you earn, you dont open to lose money.
marty 17 (03-06-14)
Bottom line is that Penalty Rates should only apply after completing minimum hours.
It should be a free market. The award rate applies regardless of Day of the Week.
If you do not want to work Saturday or Sunday, plenty do, choose a different job and stop winging.
If no one is prepared to work Sunday for the Award Rate the Employer has the option to pay above Award rates or stay closed. As opposed to the current system.
As has already been said in previous posts, the weekend is no longer sacrosanct. Not necessarily a good thing but a fact of life.
My Business involves two different sides. One part Monday to Friday and the other, weekend. No penalty rates here.
Godzilla (04-06-14)
No way. Penalty rates aren't an overtime allowance - they're a compensation for working unsociable hours - it's not quite the same thing.
That sounds very much like a return to Workchoices - a policy rejected by the electorate. Here's a better idea; accept the will of the voters and stop whinging about penalty rates in the first place.It should be a free market. The award rate applies regardless of Day of the Week.
If you do not want to work Saturday or Sunday, plenty do, choose a different job and stop winging.
The current system is flexible enough. If an employer and employee agree for Sunday penalty rates to be replaced with an equivalent pay rate during the week they are free to do so.If no one is prepared to work Sunday for the Award Rate the Employer has the option to pay above Award rates or stay closed. As opposed to the current system.
It's not a fact of life. It's an opinion used by employers to gain financial advantage at the expense of employees.As has already been said in previous posts, the weekend is no longer sacrosanct. Not necessarily a good thing but a fact of life.
Name me one school that opens 7 days a week.
Name me one council that would allow it to happen
I'm happy for you to claim that right, as long as it doesn't affect my rights.My Business involves two different sides. One part Monday to Friday and the other, weekend. No penalty rates here.
And my rights are that if I work nights and weekends I'm compensated for doing so.
[QUOTE=POWERZONE;607647
It's not a fact of life. It's an opinion used by employers to gain financial advantage at the expense of employees.
Name me one school that opens 7 days a week.
Name me one council that would allow it to happen
.[/QUOTE]
Universities, my son attends.
Private Schools. It is their Sports Day.
Most Cultural based Schools are on weekends using Public School facilities.
Suggest you complain to your Local Council.
Edit. The Council would not get a say anyway.
Last edited by Reschs; 04-06-14 at 11:00 PM. Reason: Addition
Sport???? Suggest you try something more convincing or less evasive
Kids aren't required to go to school 7 days a week which is why we still have weekends.
Last edited by exited; 05-06-14 at 01:28 AM.
Another dagger in the heart for workers...
enf (23-02-17)
Nothing they do will EVER be considered fair.....that's the reality. I have to assume that these people at least attempted to weigh the competing arguments before reaching this decision which I suppose benefits small business a tad.
Why not reduce the penalty rates of other industries too? Because they have more power and influence probably.
I write as an ex shift worker in the IT industry for over 30 years....personally I would have done my job for less penalties because I liked the work, and I liked the responsibility of sometimes having to hang out on a breezy limb without the suits around....
I doubt many people wait on tables or make coffee for fun....
The fact that there's a highway to hell and a stairway to heaven says a lot about the anticipated traffic flow.
Even though it doesn't affect me at all I just feel gutted for the workers who are already on a crappy wage and this is the last thing they need. I expect our pollies from all sides will be all over this one right up until the election and probably even beyond.
enf (23-02-17),lsemmens (24-02-17),VroomVroom (24-02-17)
They already are.....
The fact that there's a highway to hell and a stairway to heaven says a lot about the anticipated traffic flow.
exited (23-02-17)
Workers can thank the unions for this one.
There is a reason why membership is so low, it's because they are pathetic.
My wife works in the Aged Care sector, I advised her not to join the corrupt Health Services Union and join the Nursing Union instead. They are just as bad if not worse. The shit hit the fan at her work with her employer underpaying and breaching numerous EBA conditions and when the union turned up they told workers, quote - "if you dont like it, go and get a job somewhere else" - unquote. And this is supposed to be a strong union. With the Aged Care sector enormous, how could this union not massively increase its membership ?
ACTU president Ged Kearney (surprise surprise, ex Nursing union) is earmarked for a plumb Labor seat at the next election. The ACTU seemingly have no problem with ridiculous wage structure in this country - a CFMEU Stop/Go job worth 150K V's an Aged Care PCA who is probably on 40K.
How about we give these people back their rates and instead impose the rate reduction on CFMEU related jobs ?
No doubt we will hear a bleeding heart speech from Bill "vote for me" Shorten.
“I work at Spotlight in Campbelltown,” “I earn $600 a week ... and I stand to lose $80.
13% pay cut... that is seriously farked up.
Yeah, but is that the only job? Is it extra work to help out? Or a second income for the family? Or to pay for fuel for the V8? (something I could use)
Without context, such claims are meaningless. What is NOT meaningless is the futility entry level job seekers may feel, possibly ensuring they just go on the dole instead....
The fact that there's a highway to hell and a stairway to heaven says a lot about the anticipated traffic flow.
I don't see your point enf.
Who cares what she does outside of work? Might be minding the kids for all we know.
Context? She might be paying $400 a week in rent which is the norm in that area.
What's not meaningless is she's now earning less for doing the same work, which is regressive.
Forget about the V8, that's about $1200 a year for rego and Green slip.
Last edited by exited; 23-02-17 at 06:08 PM.
You are making my point for me, at least I think so....
Anyway, I see yours. This is supposedly an "independent tribunal"....set up by the ALP in, what? 2010 or something? One would have to come to the conclusion that it's compromised (certainly possible I guess), or that it came to this decision on balance to try to preserve jobs....I certainly don't pretend to know.
The fact that there's a highway to hell and a stairway to heaven says a lot about the anticipated traffic flow.
About the V8?
Neither do I. But yeah Bill Gillard and Julia Shorten were warned by the unions about it at the time.
Anyway.... WA election coming up, let's see what happens
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Just spent a week in Perth with family....Barnett is a dead duck anyway, so I'm not sure that the WA election is any sort of litmus test? They are all ALP voters, but aren't enthusiastic either...they all just see it as the wheels of the bus....About the V8?
Neither do I. But yeah Bill Gillard and Julia Shorten were warned by the unions about it at the time.
Anyway.... WA election coming up, let's see what happens
The V8?............
The fact that there's a highway to hell and a stairway to heaven says a lot about the anticipated traffic flow.
exited (23-02-17)
The world is now a 24/7 business.
I think that it is only fair if they drop penalty rates then the flow on effect is government agencies need to be accessible in the 24/7 world.
Post offices, councils, courts, taxation offices. Every thing, 24/7
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