Reply With QuoteI have a little bit of a old school view on the matter.
Libs in power, expect workers rights to be hit and employers loving it, Labor in power expect employers to be hit and workers loving it.
Its been going on since politics has been about......
Totally agree.Originally Posted by porkop
Sitting here thinking of what else to say, but my statement pretty much sums it up. You don't want to pay extra for me to work weekends, (Or arvo and night shift. That'll be next) then everything runs on weekends as well. Especially Govt departments. But will never happen.
I have a little bit of a old school view on the matter.
Libs in power, expect workers rights to be hit and employers loving it, Labor in power expect employers to be hit and workers loving it.
Its been going on since politics has been about......
eaglem (24-02-17)
this whole thing was supposedly slanted towards jobs growth , supposedly now employers in those sectors can now afford to hire extra staff. all thats going to happen is that some employers are going to make more profit.
Still , employers who want to keep good staff have the choice of not changing the pay rates.
Some will, some won't...probably 50/50.
This has always been so.
The fact that there's a highway to hell and a stairway to heaven says a lot about the anticipated traffic flow.
eaglem (24-02-17)
it was always going to happen big business getting their way.
1: it wont create more jobs because those that are open are already making a profit
and now will make more profit.
2: the boss that looks after his employees by keeping the rates as they are will
get more from his employees than those paying less.
3: productivity will decrease because of the disenchantment of the employees
working same hours and earning less and as such will be on a go slow.
The accc has said there is not as much difference and more between Sundays and normal week days
as there used to be, lets see how they all go if everyone used the religion card not to work Sundays
and then they could not be discriminated against .
dont say linux if i wanted it id install it
What big businesses are you referring to? This is aimed at small business, the biggest employer in the country...
Of course there will be a few big businesses too that will probably be rubbing their hands in glee....although the loyalty factor could temper this if they even have to employ and train a FEW people.
The fact that there's a highway to hell and a stairway to heaven says a lot about the anticipated traffic flow.
Coles - woolies - hungry jacks - maccas and the list goes on.
I am a small business owner and it in no way will entice me to employ more staff
also most of the people i deal with in small business IE coffee shops - restaurants
etc that i do work for have also said that it will not change their hiring practice and will
not employ any other staff but they will enjoy the benefit of paying less.
dont say linux if i wanted it id install it
Godzilla (24-02-17)
Maybe not you, but we are still stuck with the fact these people must have weighed the arguments...
Oh, by the way, don't always believe what you are told....ESPECIALLY by the very politicians that created this "independent" regulator...
Wasn't Coles the company that did a deal with the union that was going to slash workers pay, but was overturned in court?Supermarket giant Coles contacted the ABC on Thursday afternoon to say Mr Hunter was one of their employees.
"Store team members at Coles are employed under an enterprise agreement and therefore are unaffected by today's decision."
The fact that there's a highway to hell and a stairway to heaven says a lot about the anticipated traffic flow.
Enf i dont believe anything a politician says because they are as trustworthy
as a unsupervised kid in a candy shop told not to touch anything.
I do understand what you have stated and agree there must have been consultation
but consulted with who ???.
Every business i deal with are classed as small business and as such would be
in the area that you say they are targeting but everyone of my clients that open weekends have said they
will not employ more staff and the ones not open on weekends have said they still wont
because its still not worth it to them to do so.
Where my daughter works at the local bowls club i have spoken to one of the managers
there and he mentioned it was a bonus to them because they only have full time
and permanant part time work on sundays and public holidays and as such it will
be a big saving for them but will not mean that more staff will be employed because
the business is running well and staff levels are already adequate.
so that is just from my little world where the changes will effect people financially
but will not be increasing the employment numbers.
Last edited by fandtm666; 24-02-17 at 09:52 AM.
dont say linux if i wanted it id install it
This is exactly why we are in trouble. Shorten is squealing about the poor workers who have been hard done by, except its the Fair Work commission that he himself was instrumental in establishing. You ask who they consulted...I dunno, but you have to assume that presentations would have been made by ALL parties involved, especially the unions, which is no guarantee of ANYTHING.
A quick search reveals how workers are REALLY screwed, by both the companies AND the unions.....
On Tuesday the Fair Work Commission ruled that an Enterprise Bargaining Agreement signed between supermarket giant Coles and retail union SDA should never have been approved because it did not leave workers better off overall than the award minimum.
The ruling was in response to an appeal launched by Coles worker Duncan Hart.
The fact that there's a highway to hell and a stairway to heaven says a lot about the anticipated traffic flow.
Tony Abbott was the one who screwed this whole thing up.
He and Eric Abetz and dozens of other Coalition members have been against penalty rates for years.
Eric Abetz makes me laugh though... 3 years ago he warned us about having a "wage explosion" LOL
Coalition questions relevance of penalty rates in submission to Fair Work review
The Abbott Government has asked a major review of workplace awards to assess whether minimum terms and conditions, including penalty rates, are still relevant.
The Government is also encouraging the Fair Work Commission (FWC) to take the cost of labour into account when reviewing the awards which set basic terms and conditions.
It follows a warning by Employment Minister Eric Abetz that Australia risks a "wages explosion" if bosses do not start saying no to workers and unions requesting pay rises.
So it was Tony Abbott who created the Productivity Commission Review into penalty rates 3 years ago. Yesterday the Fairwork Commission publicly stated they are acting on the advice of that very review and this is the point the ALP need to make if they have the IQ to do it.
So? They made a submission to an independent tribunal set up by the ALP. Whats the difference between that an an ambient claim by a union? Business, unions AND individuals would have made submissions too.
Unless you truly believe that the Fair Work Commission is compromised, then I don't see an issue....even though I too may personally not agree with the decision. Certainly to see Shorten using a guy who lost nothing to publicly whine undermines his criticism of HIS tribunal.
If all decisions just go one way, whats the point of having ANY tribunals?
The fact that there's a highway to hell and a stairway to heaven says a lot about the anticipated traffic flow.
All fits well. Another typical example of the coalition to gut those on the the lowest end of the scale to feed the rich.
I assume lobbyig from Westfarmers and Wollies, maybe some large hotel chains would have also played a part in this decision to achieve higher profits.
I see no logic in the claim it would create more jobs and as for the economy, the less the lower end earn, the less they can spend to stimulate the economy.
I don't know anyone on the very low income from hospitality who does not struggle apart from the managers.
Sure it is a small boost of profit for the small business too, who also struggle in this country, but not enough to warrant extra employees or opening on Sundays if they couldn't afford that before.
I don't understand the Unions here in Australia and never did, so please forgive my ignorrance.
Therefore I don't understand their role in this.
In other countries they would orginise that workers would now go on strike, in this case best on Sunday middays, all restaurants closed !
Update: A deletion of features that work well and ain't broke but are deemed outdated in order to add things that are up to date and broken.
Compatibility: A word soon to be deleted from our dictionaries as it is outdated.
Humans: Entities that are not only outdated but broken... AI-self-learning-update-error...terminate...terminate...
The decisions have gone one way. This is the second time penalty rates have been cut.
Fairwork publicly stated in 2014 it will "take submissions for a variety of stakeholders into account, although the Government's contribution is a significant one".
So if Fairwork are supposed to be an independent tribunal why is the Government submitting anything to it in the first place? Should have nothing to do with Government / opposition unless we just go back to setting the laws through parliament.
Submissions from unions, the business community, Get-up or Menzies house is fine. Not Govt or opposition.
As I said the Fairwork Commission publicly stated they are acting on the advice of the Productivity Commission review set up by a Govt who were as economically dry as Margaret Thatcher.
I think that's BS.
We have NO IDEA who did what. Assuming so much in a day is just silly. Shorten is already being portrayed as a fool because of the guy he had moaning at that rally because, in typical fashion, he just shot from the hip....again!
The fact that there's a highway to hell and a stairway to heaven says a lot about the anticipated traffic flow.
The decisions HAVE NOT gone one way...I posted a link to the Coles agreement between the SDA Union and Coles where the Fair Work commission reversed the process. The workers friend, the union, sold them out for money! Something our next prime minister is expert at...
It may all indeed be BS, but we just don't know. Its been a whole day!!!!
The fact that there's a highway to hell and a stairway to heaven says a lot about the anticipated traffic flow.
That agreement was illegal in the first place. That's why it was reversed.
Can't use that as an example. It wasn't a submission to change the act.
My point is that you DON'T KNOW its BS. You THINK it is because you disagree with it. I do too, but I'm prepared to wait for some facts to emerge. I'm not affected so its easy to do...
And the link above shows that selling out workers is NOT solely on the government..........is it?
The fact that there's a highway to hell and a stairway to heaven says a lot about the anticipated traffic flow.
No I don't think it's BS because of the decision. I think it's BS because of the process.
The parliament should not be able to submit to an autonomous body for setting IR laws like this any more than should with interest rates or anything else that's supposed to be independent of Govt.
I'm not affected either. But you watch what happens in about 6 months.... employers will be whinging about penalty rates again and they'll spend the next 3 years lobbying the Govt to get what they want.
Nope. Employers and unions are just as capable hence the importance of an independent tribunal.
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