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Thread: Windows 10 may lock out other OS's

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    Default Windows 10 may lock out other OS's

    After all why would you want ANYTHING else?


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    Didnt M/S try this some years ago to block the use of Netscape Browser and got soundly thrashed because it breached Monopoly/AntiTrust Laws?
    But then if they make no provision except to upgrade it, it would be up to the Market Place to decide to accept this condition or not.
    I stand unequivicably behind everything I say , I just dont ever remember saying it !!

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    I think years ago there was talk Microsoft wanted PC manufactures to install a "chip on the main board" ...... so that Microsoft could "delete" Non-Genuine Microsoft Operating Systems .....

    It had a name ..... but it escapes me at the moment ......


    Back to Windows Ten ...... I thought there must be some pretty big reasons for Microsoft to Upgrade even Pirate Versions ....... to Windows 10 free of charge ....

    see what happens I guess
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    This article seems to be a bit of a scare. Many versions of Linux now support secure boot and UEFI. If all that is being proposed is the removal of the "legacy" options to bypass UEFI and Secure Boot it will be inconvenient, but no disaster. If there are specific plans to produce hardware that can only run one operating system then there is of course a problem.

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    Regarding tread's title "Windows 10 may lock out other OS's": Since UEFI based system came into the market (topic: secure boot), it's of course possible to install another 64-bit OS on such a machine (topic: dual boot) - for example Ubuntu since version 12.04.2. Don't know why here the nonsense "Windows 10 may lock out other OS's" got told. Important is only, if Windows of your computer is installed in EFI mode, then you must install the additional OS in EFI mode too. If you completely remove existing Windows installation, want another OS to be the only operating system on your computer, then it does not matter whether you install this other OS in EFI mode or not.

    Example:

    If your computer comes pre-installed with 64-bit Windows 8 (in future Windows 10 ) then you need to boot Ubuntu using the secure boot option. In other words, when you are at the Windows boot menu, choose to boot the drive as a secure device. Then you can install Ubuntu. Most likely, after you install, you'll have to reboot after install using the disk and then do a boot repair.

    The other option is you can boot the drive normally, do a normal install, and then still reboot after install and do a boot repair. This is the option advanced users (name them hackers) do.



    Only correct is: Trying to run a LiveCD, LiveDVD or LiveUSB which contains another 64-bit OS indeed won't work.

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    This may help explain Microsofts actions?
    There is a fine line between "Hobby" and "Madness"

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    If you’ve a fondness for installing old versions of Windows and alternatives like Linux on your desktops and laptops, be warned: It looks likely that some Windows 10 machines will be made to run Windows 10 and nothing else. OEMs will have the option to make it impossible to install other operating systems, by Microsoft at a conference in China.
    The feature we’re concerned with is called Secure Boot, and it’s designed to protect you: The installed OS becomes locked to the hardware itself, and if any other OS attempts to interfere (like a low-level malware app for example) then the system simply won’t start up. OEMs were ordered to make Secure Boot optional with Windows 8 but it looks like they are going to be given the opportunity to make it mandatory in Windows 10.
    I'll be right mate! I bought 20 odd dell machines at auction ,ex council machines for $20 AUD each . all 2 Gig speed and up to 4 Gig of memory . Plenty fast for me .

    If Microsoft does this they will just be cutting their throats again as people do not like to be forced to do things and like all animals when cornered react in unpredictable ways.

    I for one have never bought a windows operating system as such and get freebies from Malaysia when I buy auction machines to put on but I always use Linux anyway .

    Once you make the change you learn pretty quickly with browser ,mail and filesystem programs being the same for both systems so little change there except you now are pretty much immune from malware and spyware.

    Use DuckDuckGo to search "Puppy Linux " for one you can put on a small USB drive and boot from the drive or get the latest "iso" and make a live disk that boots from your CD drive and you can play around and see how easy it is .

    My prediction is that Microsofts bid to limit your usage will fail in short order.
    My Health , my Family and my Property are not Government business. Governments should do what they were designed to do . Govern the issues that are best done by a central body in the country to protect it from foreign invasion.State Governments and Local Councils should be abolished to stop the duplication and waste of funds.

    To defeat corruption in the public service , give them three times the penalty. Have them agree on hiring.

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    Problem with that scenario tytower is that there are still enough programs out there that will not run on Linux. I have tried several times over the years to move into the Linux camp and have always found the need to revert to Windoze. One of the biggest deal breakers for me has been Open Office. It promises much, but is still not a mature enough product to provide for anything but basic functions. I wasted about two months attempting to set up a simple database using OO Base and eventually gave up! (The on line help was less than stellar, even the linux fora do not appear to be much better), the typical attitude was "unless you are willing to spend the time to learn how to do it our way, we cannot help you" which, to a point is true, but there seems to be a very pervasive condescension for newbies. Back to the database; I was past the stage I got to with base, using Access, in about two hours. (All I needed to do was to automatically return to the last edited record), a fairly simple, and basic task.

    As for other programs, I don't think that photo editing and movie editing are quite there yet, either. As for CAD, there may be some good ones, but I was not able to find anything remotely as user friendly as SketchUp. Sadly there are also some websites that do not play well with non m$ products.

    FWIW I also get ex-govt machines too. The advantage of them is that all still have the Licence attached to to them which makes it easy to set them up.

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    ditto Isemmens, I first loaded Mandrake over 10 years ago(loved it)but there wasn't a Linux flavor for my work related programs!

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    Probably some guys - as the author of the in post #1 linked article - haven't understood what "Safe Boot / Secure Boot" mechanism Microsoft introduced with Windows 8 64-bit ( on UEFI machines !!! ) in fact is.

    Secure Boot is a security standard developed by members of the PC industry to help make sure that your PC boots using only software that is trusted by the PC manufacturer.

    When the PC starts, the firmware checks the signature of each piece of boot software, including firmware drivers (Option ROMs) and the operating system. If the signatures are good, the PC boots, and the firmware gives control to the operating system.
    Full article:

    BTW: That's what Apple tells their users

    OS X: What is Safe Boot, Safe Mode?

    Learn more about Safe Mode, a special way to start up your Mac.
    What is "Safe Mode"?

    Safe Mode (sometimes called Safe Boot) is a way to start up your Mac so that it performs certain checks, and prevents some software from automatically loading or opening.

    Starting up in Safe Mode does several things:

    It verifies your startup disk, and attempts to repair directory issues if needed.
    Only required kernel extensions are loaded.
    All user installed fonts are disabled while you are in Safe Mode.
    Startup Items and Login Items are not opened during startup and login on OS X v10.4 or later.
    In OS X 10.4 and later, font caches that are stored in /Library/Caches/com.apple.ATS/uid/ are moved to the Trash (where uid is a user ID number).
    In OS X v10.3.9 or earlier, Safe Mode opens only Apple-installed startup items. These items are usually located in /Library/StartupItems. These items are different from user-selected account login items.

    Together, these changes can help resolve or isolate certain issues on your startup disk.
    Full article:

    Last but not least, that's what the Linux Foundation says

    "Secure boot" is a technology described by recent revisions of the UEFI specification; it offers the prospect of a hardware-verified, malware-free operating system bootstrap process that can improve the security of many system deployments. Linux and other open operating systems will be able to take advantage of secure boot if it is implemented properly in the hardware. This document is intended to describe how the UEFI secure boot specification can be implemented to interoperate well with open systems and to avoid adversely affecting the rights of the owners of those systems while providing compliance with proprietary software vendors' requirements.
    Full article:
    Last edited by jwoegerbauer; 25-03-15 at 08:27 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lsemmens View Post
    Problem with that scenario tytower is that there are still enough programs out there that will not run on Linux. I have tried several times over the years to move into the Linux camp and have always found the need to revert to Windoze. One of the biggest deal breakers for me has been Open Office. It promises much, but is still not a mature enough product to provide for anything but basic functions. I wasted about two months attempting to set up a simple database using OO Base and eventually gave up! (The on line help was less than stellar, even the linux fora do not appear to be much better), the typical attitude was "unless you are willing to spend the time to learn how to do it our way, we cannot help you" which, to a point is true, but there seems to be a very pervasive condescension for newbies. Back to the database; I was past the stage I got to with base, using Access, in about two hours. (All I needed to do was to automatically return to the last edited record), a fairly simple, and basic task.

    As for other programs, I don't think that photo editing and movie editing are quite there yet, either. As for CAD, there may be some good ones, but I was not able to find anything remotely as user friendly as SketchUp. Sadly there are also some websites that do not play well with non m$ products.

    FWIW I also get ex-govt machines too. The advantage of them is that all still have the Licence attached to to them which makes it easy to set them up.
    Its always going to be that way of course . The programs you mention are not what I referred to . I meant basic bread and butter stuff that linux does well . The big point is its free and the source code is given to you .

    I have used base from Open Office too but I am not experienced with it . Berkley DB is free also and that is usually the source for Oracle and Access improvements anyway. LibreOffice it is now as Adobe bought Open Office I think.

    I use LibreCad but again I only dabble and I dont find it easy to use.
    SketchUp.I think is available in Mac and that can be run as Linux but I hav'nt tried.
    photo editing is strongly covered with Gimp - I Use it all the time
    movie editing I hav'nt really looked yet

    There are probably 85% of users stuck on Windows "control me and make me pay" type programs and only 15% using Linux but its coming up and the more the merrier . Most distibutions now have a live disk option which is a CD sitting in your drive you can boot from without affecting your windows install in any way. Of course programs are written for Windows and won't run on Linux .
    However you find now that many are writing for both systems.

    Where I find the more common problem is is in the hardware installations . Printers scanners and the like. The big manufacturers dont want to tick off Microsoft so they hide their Linux drivers away a bit and you have to go digging . They are always in my experience available but it can be a pain . Once you have done it once though it is easy next time . That applies to anything in Linux really . You only learn it once and no "Blue Screens"

    What I buy have always had the hard drive wiped professionaly and I have been given disks with the purchase to put on up to Windows7 so far so I do run windows on any windows only programs but I never put thos machines online.Example - Icom radio cloneing program. Obviously contractually tied to Microsoft . not available in Linux.

    I suggest you keep looking as Linux is pretty much up there now and is still the University choice
    Last edited by tytower; 26-03-15 at 09:11 AM.
    My Health , my Family and my Property are not Government business. Governments should do what they were designed to do . Govern the issues that are best done by a central body in the country to protect it from foreign invasion.State Governments and Local Councils should be abolished to stop the duplication and waste of funds.

    To defeat corruption in the public service , give them three times the penalty. Have them agree on hiring.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jwoegerbauer View Post
    Probably some guys - as the author of the in post #1 linked article - haven't understood what "Safe Boot / Secure Boot" mechanism Microsoft introduced with Windows 8 64-bit ( on UEFI machines !!! ) in fact is.
    I fall into that category . I wondered if you could explain it to me ? Save me all the bullshit reading .
    Does it mean that if I boot from a CD or USB stick it will no longer work ?
    My Health , my Family and my Property are not Government business. Governments should do what they were designed to do . Govern the issues that are best done by a central body in the country to protect it from foreign invasion.State Governments and Local Councils should be abolished to stop the duplication and waste of funds.

    To defeat corruption in the public service , give them three times the penalty. Have them agree on hiring.

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    I failed to mention the lack of compatibility with legacy hardware. Why should I have to stuff around with finding suitable distros to make my dual monitor setup work as I need it to? (I wasted months on that one.) A live CD only works if you are testing the waters. Networking was another issue. I'd set it all up and it would suddenly decide that my windoze machines were no longer accessible. Strangely enough, all my windoze machines could still talk to one another. (they were a mix of XP and W7). I'll probably investigate Linux again in another few years as is my wont. (I started playing with *nix back in the day when Red Had was a baby).

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    Quote Originally Posted by tytower View Post
    Does it mean that if I boot from a CD or USB stick it will no longer work ?
    If the CD/DVD/BD and/or USB-stick contains the UEFI-bootloader, then it works. Or (not recommended!) you disable UEFI's Secure Boot feature on the PC, means switch PC to Legacy Mode.

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