usb install help

[Philquad]

ive buggered my little hp envy hybrid

it had a sluggish win 8 on it when i bought it so i usb'd a win 10 stick & put that on

now want to put win 8 on it but ive tried gpt by ufi, mbr by ufi, it boots to neither

f10 doesnt seem to work as i cant enter bios, f9 boot selection is only efi or <boot>
i geuss secure or fast boot is in bios & i cant change it
i use rufus

[jwoegerbauer]

At first glance it can be simply the fact that your USB installation media is booting in the wrong mode either UEFI or Legacy IDE/SATA. If your USB installation media is booting in one mode implying a certain disk format and you disk is formatted in the opposite mode than there will be a conflict.

If laptop has a 64-bit CPU, means it's an UEFI machine, to boot it in UEFI mode, you'll need to provide an USB drive formatted using the GPT drive format. The actual correct way to install Windows 8.1 is on GPT. Create a new GPT formatted USB installation media. As file system use NTFS.

[Philquad]

thats where im confused
in here
it says fat32 for gpt
& ntfs for mbr\legacy? on another usb tutorial

it may be deeper, f10 will not enter bios mode, f9 gives boot selection without showing any usb's, recovery=dead, boot anyway= corrupted

maybe i need to take usb out 1st, lack of hands sadly

[jwoegerbauer]

[...]
it may be deeper, f10 will not enter bios mode, f9 gives boot selection without showing any usb's, recovery=dead, boot anyway= corrupted
[...]

Try this:

1.
Hold down the Shift key and click Shutdown - this should prevent hybrid shutdown.

2.
Wait at least 10 seconds with the laptop off.

3.
When the laptop has shutdown, tap F10 continuously ( about 1 tap every half second ) as soon as you press the Power button and see if this enters the "UEFI" menu.
If this doesn't work: Press the Power button and then immediately press the ESC key on the upper left of your keyboard, about once per second. You will soon see a Recovery screen menu that instructs you to press the F10 button to go directly to your "UEFI" menu.


Pressing the ESC key is easy to remember; that way, you don't have to memorize the other F button choices. Easy!


Good luck!

[...]
it says fat32 for gpt
[...]

Neither formatting scheme FAT32 nor formatting scheme NTFS has something to do with partitioning scheme GPT, which is standard on "UEFI" machines. You are mixing up terms that in no way are related.

Yes, default formatting scheme for installation media to boot UEFI machines is FAT32. But if you use a NTFS formatted medium, the laptop can start depending on the hardware and firmware configuration without asking in the Legacy BIOS emulation. Thought that's what you want because you spoke of "BIOS".

[Philquad]

managed to get into bios, although F10 doesnt work, only from the F9 (boot menu) setup now appears after bios update
so its set to uefi usb boot 1st, only other relevant is secure boot which is disabled
i guess its my iso media? as i used rufus with win 10 demo without a problem
or could it be not x64 machine, never thought of that, will try 7 x86 & if not win 10 again

lesson = not broken, leave it be phill

[jwoegerbauer]

Have you ever verified the USB-stick you intend to use to re-install Windows 8 64-bit on a machine that boots in UEFI-mode contains the correct bootloader? Note: You can't use the bootloader that comes/is used with optical Windows installation media (DVD/CD/BD). You have to ensure that on the USB-stick in folder <usb-stick>\efi\boot file bootx64.efi is present.


Strongly believe the HP Envy hybrids have 64-bit CPU, because they are shipped with Windows 8.1 64-bit.

[Philquad]

no that makes sense
never have that trouble with custom desktops, im tablet unsavvy?
ive tried, win 8.1, win 7, x64 & 86, win 10 that i originally used?

it just boots to recovery (thats corrupt)
ive tried 2 usb & even a usb cd drive
kudos to you

[jwoegerbauer]

it just boots to recovery (thats corrupt)

Since your laptop is OEM manufactured, I'll assume (one of those) recovery partitions to be found on HDD contains HP's proprietary recovery software. Nothing else. In no case any Windows system you can restore from there will be found!

If you create with OEM's backup tool a recovery image - as this is always recommended if you first time use your PC/laptop, then in Windows's registry its location get stored. Typically such a backup will be stored in an extra partition on device's HDD, so it stays permanent. Windows's registry is the place where OEM's recovery software searches for the location of the backup made when OEM's recovery software is invoked. OEM's recovery software must be put on a Windows PE media (bootable DVD/USB-stick) too, of course.


BTW:

Instead of RUFUS try WiNToBootic, a freeware tool for Windows, to create a bootable USB-stick:



That's the tool I and my friends use. We never had problems with it.

[Philquad]

i tried wintobootic, still goes straight to recovery crap
its like its not seeing the usb at all
might try a bootable drive wiper

whats this guy mean?
Linux bootable USB Pendrive need to be FAT32.

ubuntu - Booting linux from usb using EFI - Unix and Linux


EFI firmware will search removable media for a FAT32 filesystem containing the file /EFI/BOOT/BOOTX64.efi (for both 32bit and 64bit systems). Make sure that you're using a FAT32 filesystem on the USB drive,

[lsemmens]

I may be stating the obvious, but have you actually set the BIOS to boot from a USB device?

[Philquad]

well it says it is, 1st usb, usb cd, os, network
although you can only get to bios from f9 which doesnt show the usb connected
im thinkin
win 10 has screwed it (as it just boots to the recovery & nothing else)
my usb drives no good (read that 1s with win 8 logo are no good to boot with)
about to try booting to a usb format program
as the ox0000 error code points to driver signing problems

[jwoegerbauer]

Your 64-bit HP by default is running in UEFI-mode, unless you switched it to Legacy-BIOS-mode. If the HP is running in UEFI-mode, then what I don't understand is, why you don't try to access the UEFI settings menu (Advanced Boot Options) via Windows's inbuilt UEFI tool you reach via Control Panel?






Is the current Windows 10 installation corrupted, means Windows 10 doesn't load?

[Philquad]

yes 10, & 10 is only 32 bit correct?
i cant boot to anything usb, they just dont show
secure boot is off, has no legacy mode or i would use that
all i get is stupid recovery page that says

driver is not verified ect
file system32\winload.efi

i checked my iso's for winboot.efi? win 10 & 8 has it

so, if i do another 10 usb(x86) in rufus, it should be mbr for uefi ?

[jwoegerbauer]

yes 10, & 10 is only 32 bit correct?
i cant boot to anything usb, they just dont show
secure boot is off, has no legacy mode or i would use that
all i get is stupid recovery page that says

driver is not verified ect
file system32\winload.efi

i checked my iso's for winboot.efi? win 10 & 8 has it

so, if i do another 10 usb(x86) in rufus, it should be mbr for uefi ?

Windows 10 comes as both 64-bit and 32-bit version. On a machine with 64-bit CPU (default comes with UEFI mainboard) you install the 64-bit version, on a machine with 32-bit CPU (default has BIOS mainboard) you install the 32-bit version. That's all. Don't know what you have installed.

Microsoft demands that the UEFI-secure boot is turned on: the bootloader by default only starts if Microsoft digitally signed it. Of course you can disable UEFI-secure boot. Even if you took the secure boot hurdle, UEFI computers often boot not from non UEFI ready media. They (stupidly) continue to boot in the UEFI mode. And not to forget: If computer boots in UEFI mode and you want to boot into a Windows installation media, then the boot partition must be necessarily on a hard drive or an SSD or an USB, that has a GUID partition table (GPT).

Again: UEFI based machines require the GPT partitioning scheme. Point. Whereas the MBR partitioning scheme is for BIOS based machines only.



This was my last contribution in current thread. No more ideas of what you additionally have to do ... Best would be you send the HP to me (Germany) ... Just a joke!

[Philquad]

pondering over a quiet beer while my new budgie stays off the keyboard
maybe its as im disabling secure boot from old bios habbits
never thought of that
its win 10 i installed 32 bit as its a 2gb ram lappy
frustrating as i have to wait for someone to walk past to transfer usb stick to my pc then to the laptop every time i try it
deffo thinking of sending it to you

na, same with secure boot on

[Philquad]

so its efi only by the look (bios) although i cant say that

so ill try gpt on efi although, when i put win 10 on it, arr, i upgraded, via usb as win 8 was working (i think)

all i know is it see's no usb media, even tried usb dvd rom, im not positive about it
i tried a usb hard drive formatter, even that didnt show

any suggestion on a hard drive wiper via usb ?

[lsemmens]

Another thought....Do you have a Linux DVD? Tried booting from a live version of Linux? You could try an Ultimate boot Cd or Hiren. They usually have utilities to wipe a drive before installing a new OS.

[jwoegerbauer]

[...]
any suggestion on a hard drive wiper via usb ?

Another thought....Do you have a Linux DVD? Tried booting from a live version of Linux? You could try an Ultimate boot Cd or Hiren. They usually have utilities to wipe a drive before installing a new OS.

1.
Why to run a HDD/SDD wiper? Each Clean Install of Windows does this automatically. And, each Clean Install of Windows does automatically repartition the disk, if necessary. You do not need to repartition the HDD/SSD. Also the Recovery process takes care of doing that.
BTW: If the laptop has a flashdrive (SSD) instead of a spinning HDD, it's important to know that each ERASE operation kills the SSD-cells which hold the data, so it should be avoided under all circumstances.

2.
OP never answered my question

Is the current Windows 10 installation corrupted, means Windows 10 doesn't load?

OP never told us here, whether his HP comes with an optical drive. I suspect NO, because all his efforts were to boot into USB-drive

If no optical drive present:

1. If current Windows 10 installation isn't corrupted, and Windows 10 also can't detect a USB-stick - which is plugged in, then 101% the USB-driver installed isn't compatible - if it's not a technical defect with the USB port, of course. OP has never reported whether he checked this, for example he had tried to boot another PC into the Windows 8 prepared USB-stick. Also OP never told us if 3.0 USB controllers present onboard, whether he tried to connect the USB-stick to one of the 2.0 ports. Also it's well known that some motherboards notice the USB drive as an actual hard drive. OP never told us whether he instead of changing the device boot order, he tried to change the hard drive boot order. And so on ... Of course, I assume that OP, here on AUSTECH since a decade well known as PC guru, all these tests has made.
2. If a plugged-in USB-stick can't be detected, then you simply can't boot into a Windows PE or Linux edition or whatever which is located on USB-stick.

3.
If no optical drive present:

1. OP should give up to try to install a Windows edition which is located on USB-stick ( boot into USB-stick ).
2. If the current Windows 10 isn't corrupted, he has access to the Internet, then he simply should download the Windows 8 edition of choice to the laptop, unzip the ISO into an extra partition, which he of course has to create before (shrinking the current primary partition by using Windows's Diskmanager utility, so he gets ~ 4 GB space for a new partition) , then in this extra 4 GB partition start the Setup.exe of Windows 8 unpacked. That's the method I use since years with all the desktops/laptops I have/had. Worked always like a charm. All my friends followed this method, too.

Addendum:

Wondering why Linux Live CD etc was mentioned. I made last year both a 64-bit and a 32-bit Windows PE:

The 64-bit version in between was more than 6,500 times downloaded. I'm proud of this... even if (some) AUSTECH members ignore it / don't make use of it - a fact I can very well live with.

[lsemmens]

I agree that a Windoze CD does do these things, however, I have found that there are times when they do not perform as they should, typically with recovery partitions on "name brand" machines. Whilst Windows PE is good, (I do use such a disk) sometimes, moving away from the M$ camp to perform a task allows you to get the job done without Windows "getting in the way". I've been caught in the past with a machine that would not let me load, repartition or format because of a Windows bootloader. Even my Windows PE Environment would not load for some reason. The Linux disk was the only thing that would boot reliably and with the tools loaded there I was able to low-level (rarely needed BTW) format the disk and wipe any vestige of the old OS. From there; booting and Loading Windows was a breeze.

[Philquad]

yes it should be
i just took hp's advice, d-loaded another win from his link(sumthin about the ms 1s dont work on pre-0installed)
usb'd it, now it shows like a iso file with folders in it (setup.exe would do lol )

im gunna try hirens