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Thread: Turnbulls FTTN

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    I'm certainly not an NBN hater, and I personally feel the entire network should be FTTH, not the second rate mix up we are going to get.

    However, I feel strongly that the taxpayer should only pay for the infrastructure and backbone, and it should be the individual who pays for their own connection if they want one - even if it is a nominal fee.



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    The individual DOES pay. It may not appear as a separate item on your contract with your ISP, as most bundle the connection cost with the usage. But the ISP pays the NBN for the connection, and YOU pay the ISP. Try and get a non-contract connection to the NBN & see what the costs are!

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    Quote Originally Posted by jgm View Post
    Try and get a non-contract connection to the NBN & see what the costs are!
    Funny you should mention that.
    I was just looking for one today for my daughter - $5 per month more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jgm View Post
    The individual DOES pay. It may not appear as a separate item on your contract with your ISP, as most bundle the connection cost with the usage. But the ISP pays the NBN for the connection, and YOU pay the ISP. Try and get a non-contract connection to the NBN & see what the costs are!
    No, the individual may pay a monthly connection fee, but they don't pay for the initial connection to their residence. The initial connection is made to their residence regardless of whether they intend to take up the NBN - and with only half of the people who are serviced by the NBN choosing to use the NBN there is a massive waste of resources that could be allocated to people who actually want to connect.

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    I dont know how they charge for the 'cable' version of the NBN but as far as I could tell, every ISP for SKYMUSTER have no contracts and are on a Pay-by-the-Month basis.
    However some do offer that if you do take on a term contract, they will supply you with a 'suitable' WiFi router for 'FREE'.
    I also paid no upfront connection fee for the supply and installation of the Dish and associated equipment.
    I stand unequivicably behind everything I say , I just dont ever remember saying it !!

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    Quote Originally Posted by gordon_s1942 View Post
    I also paid no upfront connection fee for the supply and installation of the Dish and associated equipment.
    I assume satellite/wireless connections are handled the same are cabled connections - no cost to the user, cost borne by the taxpayer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by peteramjet View Post
    .....However, I feel strongly that the taxpayer should only pay for the infrastructure and backbone, and it should be the individual who pays for their own connection if they want one - even if it is a nominal fee.
    I feel strongly that the taxpayer should pay for the infrastructure and backbone and​ the connection, and as a taxpayer I don't have an issue with that.
    Cheers
    Ted (Al)

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    I would pay if i was given assurances that speeds would be what they should be with no disconnects bla bla. Nz are already on the next step 1 gig speeds and we can't even connect to an amazing nbn of 25 mbbs if it works. How do this politicians get away with this crap.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Al Bundy View Post
    I feel strongly that the taxpayer should pay for the infrastructure and backbone and​ the connection, and as a taxpayer I don't have an issue with that.
    Reasons for feeling that way Al ??

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    Quote Originally Posted by watchdog View Post
    Reasons for feeling that way Al ??
    Because, the last time I checked we still lived in a free country, and we were still entitled to our own opinions, peteramjet voiced his, and I replied with mine.
    Cheers
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    I don't see why I should even pay tax if I don't get anything for it.

    Most infrastructure these days goes towards projects that mainly benefit property developers in some chosen city areas.
    I will never have a benefit from that.
    NBN provided to the home would be a benefit for all Australians(even if some haven't fathomed it yet), not just the wealthy.

    Of course a connection fee will always exist just like for power and telephone, either absorbed by a contract or upfront.

    I wonder if everybody bitched around so much back then when the invention of the telephone arrived in Australia and a taxpayer funded infrastructure was provided.
    That infrastructure was then stolen from the taxpayer when it was privatised and now NBN has to buy it back (either to remove it or as lately trying to patch it up) for hideous cost due to Telstra's stranglehold. Main reason why NBN got so expensive. All fat cats getting rich somewhere, basically at taxpayer's cost.

    That would be a real reason to bitch about, not giving the taxpayer actually something useful for their hard earned money!
    Update: A deletion of features that work well and ain't broke but are deemed outdated in order to add things that are up to date and broken.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al Bundy View Post
    Because, the last time I checked we still lived in a free country, and we were still entitled to our own opinions, peteramjet voiced his, and I replied with mine.
    Indeed, opinions are free. But it's nice to get some views though behind those opinions.

    Quote Originally Posted by nomeat View Post
    I wonder if everybody bitched around so much back then when the invention of the telephone arrived in Australia and a taxpayer funded infrastructure was provided.
    The original infrastructure was actually privately owned...

    However the taxpayer did end up paying for the infrastructure - poles, lines, switches, exchanges. The taxpayer didn't pay for individual connections nor internal house wiring. If they had, people may have well 'bitched' about it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by peteramjet View Post
    Indeed, opinions are free. But it's nice to get some views though behind those opinions.
    Why? Because my opinion doesn't match yours, I should explain myself? I don't think so. Who died and made you the king of debating?
    Cheers
    Ted (Al)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Al Bundy View Post
    Why? Because my opinion doesn't match yours, I should explain myself? I don't think so. Who died and made you the king of debating?
    Myself and others are interested in different views, this is a discussion forum after all, and a discussion requires you to exchange ideas - I guess we shouldn't bother asking for yours? And if this were a debate - well that would require you to outline your logic by discussing relevant facts and reasons...

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    So are they building more Mobile Towers with our Tax dollars as well?
    Or is this just money to stuff into an antiquated system of Location Fixed internet services?

    With exception of NBN wireless, which is off a tower, but only offers location locked (fixed) services.
    If u want to go on an expedition get a Land Rover, if u want to come home from an expedition get a Landcruiser!

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    Quote Originally Posted by oceanboy View Post
    So are they building more Mobile Towers with our Tax dollars as well?
    Or is this just money to stuff into an antiquated system of Location Fixed internet services?

    With exception of NBN wireless, which is off a tower, but only offers location locked (fixed) services.

    No it is premise based only, even if it has a wireless connection.
    We alraedy have mobile networks.

    Fixed location has nothing to do with being antiquated , unless you think living in a cosy home is an antiquated lifestyle.
    As for me I would find it difficult to carry my computer hardware 'park' and all the other tech connected to the internet always 'on the go'.

    The laws of physics still apply with wireless systems, of which most people are ignorant of. The amount of bandwidth(radio spectrum) that has to be shared with all the users 'on the air' is limited within the radius of the transmitter.
    Yet with a single fibre I can theoretically have that entire bandwidth on my own.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nomeat View Post
    I don't see why I should even pay tax if I don't get anything for it.
    I think we all feel the way nomeat does to paying Tax's that go to projects you seemingly get no benefit from but thats not always the case you get 'nothing' from the project.

    As an example, say Tax Dollars are spent on a Project (Tide Barrier for example) in far North Western Australia which would have absolutely no affect on a person living anywhere on the East coast you would think BUT it could as that project (Tide Barrier) may enable ships to dock there safely to load and carry some commodity elsewhere to be sold.
    This now has created jobs which means Tax's can be now collected from the wages earnt and sales made along with a multitude of other activities created by the project.
    The same applies to the NBN because it now enables companies to have better and faster communication facilities which would reduce their operating costs which is then reflected in them being more competitive and able to sell their product more cheaply.

    There's an old saying of 'Wheels with in Wheels' that very roughly means you cant always see how its working but it does and it keeps on working.
    I stand unequivicably behind everything I say , I just dont ever remember saying it !!

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    Gordon, no doubt there are other useful projects but do you think for example $200Billion (that will never be paid back) for 12 submarines is better invested than the $60Biillion (just guessing) that would have been required as a loan from the tax payer to complete a FTTH NBN?

    I know(always did) that Turnbull's copper system is a waste of money and will never be payed back because other systems will eventually have to replace it at further cost.

    Off-Topic Edit: For the cost of the subs you could get 20,000 cruise missiles hidden all around Australia's coast(but mostly north) that would REALLY protect OUR country from invasion and with that mass of missiles the chance of bringing down a nuclear weapon would also be highly likely.
    Last edited by Uncle Fester; 18-09-16 at 09:09 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nomeat View Post
    Gordon, no doubt there are other useful projects but do you think for example $200Billion (that will never be paid back) for 12 submarines is better invested than the $60Biillion (just guessing) that would have been required as a loan from the tax payer to complete a FTTH NBN?

    I know(always did) that Turnbull's copper system is a waste of money and will never be payed back because other systems will eventually have to replace it at further cost.

    Off-Topic Edit: For the cost of the subs you could get 20,000 cruise missiles hidden all around Australia's coast(but mostly north) that would REALLY protect OUR country from invasion and with that mass of missiles the chance of bringing down a nuclear weapon would also be highly likely.
    Nomeat, While I again agree with you and your thoughts of how that much money COULD be spent but can you 'Tell the Future'?
    Is there there the remotest possibility those Submarines may prove their worth in some way one day?

    The other side of the coin is that by buying them and what goes with maintaining them MAY spin off onto other areas not clear at this time.
    While its highly unlikely, can you or anyone say that one day we may have to retool up and maintain them ourselves ?

    I would not be surprised to see built into the arrangement that certain Trade Agreements such as buying Meat or Produce (we dont make anything else here now) even if its to another Country.

    I dislike the phrase 'Seeing the BIG Picture' but in some cases its a necessity.
    I stand unequivicably behind everything I say , I just dont ever remember saying it !!

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    I can not 'see' the future but with a bit of knowledge and research I can get a fairly good picture how to predict a likely future.

    I see the likelihood of positive spinoffs and flow-on effects much higher with a world class data network available to ALL Australians. This starts with education, through providing the ability to work at home with future technologies that you and I may not imagined yet and in the end monitoring and treating the aged citizens as I mentioned above.
    Not to mention the entertainment sector that is likely to take the biggest piece of cake in what can be earned here.

    I added that 'off-topic edit' to show how little use those few and slow submarines (only capable of carrying a few missiles) would be in defending the vast coast of our country compared to the enormous amount of missiles or armed UAVs we could purchase for that $200Billion.
    Now imagine the flow-on effects of that. Possibly building and designing and maintaining our own UAVs(hell, I wish I could be working on that), training people to 'fly' them, building dugouts or bunkers in the bush and forest to hide the at least 10,000 missiles, surely more jobs created than installing some imported tech in a few welded metal tubes.

    BTW we already have heaps of overseas buyers for our meat. We just can't keep up with delivery and we eat so much ourselves. Agriculture is only 2% of our GDP.
    Last edited by Uncle Fester; 19-09-16 at 03:35 PM.
    Update: A deletion of features that work well and ain't broke but are deemed outdated in order to add things that are up to date and broken.
    Compatibility: A word soon to be deleted from our dictionaries as it is outdated.
    Humans: Entities that are not only outdated but broken... AI-self-learning-update-error...terminate...terminate...

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