Page 6 of 17 FirstFirst 12345678910111213141516 ... LastLast
Results 101 to 120 of 330

Thread: Turnbulls FTTN

  1. #101
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    1,265
    Thanks
    139
    Thanked 643 Times in 368 Posts
    Rep Power
    454
    Reputation
    10815

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by WhiteOx View Post
    The speed issues are actually lack of CVC.
    At present that is likely to be the cause, but once people start mass migrating to FTTN the 2 x 1Gb ethernet connections supplying the node is going to start to bite in a big way. Then it won't matter how much 'CVC' the RSP purchases, the average throughput of the node in peak times will be 5Mbit/sec/port.

    Despite the node hardware supporting 2 x 10Gb interfaces nbn is still only installing 1Gb cards, and 1Gb equipment at the other end too. There seems to be no plan to install 10Gb cards at present.



  • #102
    Premium Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    3,688
    Thanks
    1,938
    Thanked 2,104 Times in 1,050 Posts
    Rep Power
    967
    Reputation
    32468

    Default

    I knew Malcolm and his side kick Bob had the answers to the NBN and were not trashing the NBN at all, they have been waiting for this

    Note the expected speed requirement by 2025!!
    There is a fine line between "Hobby" and "Madness"

  • The Following User Says Thank You to allover For This Useful Post:

    tristen (17-02-16)

  • #103
    LSemmens
    lsemmens's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Rural South OZ
    Posts
    10,585
    Thanks
    11,868
    Thanked 7,061 Times in 3,338 Posts
    Rep Power
    3153
    Reputation
    132592

    Default

    Another big cost in installing such tech is the laying of the optical fiber cables to each household.
    That was Labor's policy, was it not? FTTP, not the current FTTN.
    I'm out of my mind, but feel free to leave a message...

  • #104
    Premium Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    3,688
    Thanks
    1,938
    Thanked 2,104 Times in 1,050 Posts
    Rep Power
    967
    Reputation
    32468

    Default




    Some reading material for those interested
    Last edited by allover; 25-02-16 at 08:23 PM.
    There is a fine line between "Hobby" and "Madness"

  • #105
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    1,265
    Thanks
    139
    Thanked 643 Times in 368 Posts
    Rep Power
    454
    Reputation
    10815

    Default

    VDSL2 over Telstra's rotten wires is hobbled from the start. Soneone on Whirlpool plotted sync rates over distance and whilst there was a general trend (ie further away from the node the slower you go) the speeds were all over the place with people on similar lengths having wildly differing speeds. One household might get 80Mbit/sec sync, the neighouring household might get 35. It really is that variable.

    Reuse of Telstra's network is nothing short of criminally bonkers.

  • The Following User Says Thank You to SpankedHam For This Useful Post:

    allover (25-02-16)

  • #106
    Administrator
    mtv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    19,893
    Thanks
    7,508
    Thanked 15,066 Times in 6,761 Posts
    Rep Power
    5647
    Reputation
    239305

    Default

    No surprises here!


    Malcolm Turnbull's cut-price National Broadband Network is facing mounting delays and rising costs, according to a damning internal progress report obtained by Fairfax Media.

    The report, marked "commercial in confidence" and "for official use only", sets out a litany of problems in delivering the Coalition's supposedly more budget-friendly fibre-to-the-node (FTTN) model.

    By the company's own assessment, the giant infrastructure project has fallen two-thirds short of its benchmark construction timetable. Connection costs to each house or business are also blowing out. The model had been marketed to voters as superior to Labor's NBN because it was "Fast. Affordable. Sooner".

    The "final design" process for connections - needed before construction can start - is running far behind schedule, according to the February 19 report.

    While 1,402,909 premises should have been approved at the date of the report, the figure was sitting at 662,665 - 740,000 fewer than planned.

    The snapshot says NBN Co has achieved 29,005 fibre-to-the-node "construction completions", while noting its internally budgeted target for this period was more than three times this at 94,273.

    The report, which was never intended for public disclosure, reveals the extent to which the more than $46 billion project has drifted off course, mainly during the time when Mr Turnbull was in direct control as communications minister - the portfolio he held before replacing Tony Abbott as Prime Minister in September.

    Under the heading "Commercial in Confidence: Scale the Deployment Program", the report outlines a plethora of faults, including that delays in power approvals and construction are being caused by electricity companies which account for 38,537 premises or 59 per cent of overall slippages against the target.

    Another 30 per cent of delays are down to material shortages and a further 11 per cent are attributed to completion reviews.

    "Construction completions currently sits at 29K against the corporate budget of 94K," the report states.

    "Gap-to-target has increased from 49,183 to 65,268 at week ending February 12.

    "Construction completions gap can be attributed to 3 main issues: power, supply, and completions under review."

    Also noted in the report is a rise in the cost per connection of design and construction, which has now reached $1366, compared with the target price of $1114 - a 23 per cent increase.

    The NBN Co was the subject of a major political contest at the last election, with Mr Turnbull insisting Labor's FTTP (fibre-to-the-premises) model was needlessly extravagant and unaffordable at a projected off-budget price of $44.9 billion.

    Instead, he proposed the more modest mixed technology FTTN roll-out which, rather than connecting up each house or business, would connect in many cases to the old Telstra network in each street, and rely on the existing copper wire connections for the final hook up to each premises.

    It was originally intended to cost $29.5 billion according to the Abbott government, but costs have increased considerably since 2013 and it is getting close to twice that price tag.

    Yet the NBN Co's own documents show that for all that money, it remains bedevilled with problems from the slow design approvals by power utility companies (FTTP did not require electrical supply but FTTN does) and as a result of material and supply problems. Even expertise in dealing with the copper network is scarce.

    ​While the Coalition's pared-back version of the NBN was intended to deliver the system quicker and more cheaply, the company's snapshot suggests some of the design factors of FTTN are causing the bottleneck.


    Full story .

  • #107
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    1,265
    Thanks
    139
    Thanked 643 Times in 368 Posts
    Rep Power
    454
    Reputation
    10815

    Default

    It doesn't take much imagination to see how wrong things have gone when one compares the typical times that a block becomes 'ready for service' after construction commences. The period over which a FTTN block becomes RFS should be massively shorter than the period over which a similar sized FTTP block becomes RFS, but it isn't.

    Said before, but worthy of being repeated, NZ's current FTTP per drop average price is currently $2100, projected to fall to $1800 FY2016 and continuing to fall until the end of the project. Every other country that has rollout out or is in the process of rolling out, by either private enterprise or government, shows a similar price curve. Prices start high and over time as 'lessons are learned' it falls, significantly. NZ started at around $4300 per drop. Australia was following the same price point curve, until the Libs took the project 'out the back' and shot it in the head.

    Yet here we are rolling out a FTTN solution that at the end of the day is likely to cost more than the typical end point cost of FTTP rollouts (some are already running as low as AUD $1100) and is built on a decrepit copper network with 'wheel of fortune' style speed variations and similar levels of reliability.
    Last edited by SpankedHam; 29-02-16 at 07:21 AM.

  • #108
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    693
    Thanks
    4
    Thanked 217 Times in 139 Posts
    Rep Power
    262
    Reputation
    2138

    Default

    And the Liberal spin doctors are at it again with "all the NBN targets have been met" bullshit.

  • #109
    Administrator

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Newcastle, Nsw
    Posts
    4,604
    Thanks
    815
    Thanked 2,531 Times in 1,138 Posts
    Rep Power
    1178
    Reputation
    41376

    Default

    Here ya go guys,
    The actual leaked document


  • The Following User Says Thank You to WhiteOx For This Useful Post:

    mtv (29-02-16)

  • #110
    Premium Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Central Tablelands of NSW
    Age
    81
    Posts
    13,824
    Thanks
    1,242
    Thanked 3,806 Times in 2,525 Posts
    Rep Power
    1797
    Reputation
    56986

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jgm View Post
    And the Liberal spin doctors are at it again with "all the NBN targets have been met" bullshit.
    Dont be too critical because they never said exactly what the targets were or how many they had to met.
    They could have been as crucial as turning up to work each day then come Friday, piss off and 'Havagoodweekend'.............and they met those admiraly........
    I stand unequivicably behind everything I say , I just dont ever remember saying it !!

  • #111
    Senior Member
    LeroyPatrol's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    N.E. Vic
    Posts
    16,229
    Thanks
    3,528
    Thanked 4,710 Times in 2,797 Posts
    Rep Power
    1669
    Reputation
    46551

    Default

    So cost blowout to $60b !!! That would pay for 1.5 subs!!

    Leroy
    XCRUISER HDSR600HD twin sat and terrestrial receiver $OOS *
    XCRUISER HDSR385 Avant - sold out$OOS UltraPlus DVB-T and DVB-S2 tuners $49 Remotes $OOS

  • #112
    Senior Member
    Guiseppe's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    1,604
    Thanks
    1,057
    Thanked 413 Times in 279 Posts
    Rep Power
    366
    Reputation
    7224

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LeroyPatrol View Post
    So cost blowout to $60b !!! That would pay for 1.5 subs!!

    Leroy
    Forget the subs - the money would be much better spent on FTTP i.e. do the job once and do it properly.
    If Australia is a democracy why, then, is voting compulsory?

    "What has changed between the arrival of the First Fleet and today?"
    "Wearing leg irons is now not required."

  • #113
    Administrator
    mtv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    19,893
    Thanks
    7,508
    Thanked 15,066 Times in 6,761 Posts
    Rep Power
    5647
    Reputation
    239305

    Default

    A second leaked NBNco document reveals significant per premises cost saving following trials of new FTTP technology.


    NBN trials cheaper all-fibre option

    The company building the national broadband network has quietly trialled a new, low-cost fibre-to-the-premises technology that could achieve the speed and reliability of an all-fibre system to the home, as originally intended by Labor, but at a reduced construction price.

    But despite the promising results, NBN Co has so far declined to release them, as the government defends its preferred model, which relies principally on copper phone connections for the final link from the neighbourhood cabinet - or node - to the premises.

    The revelation has been described by Labor as an "extraordinary leak", which shows the government is deliberately overstating the costs of the full-fibre option, when it knows it can be done cheaper.

    A leaked internal NBN Co document - the second this week - reveals the company has successfully trialled a new "type-3" system or "MT-LFN" or multi-technology local fibre network, which uses cutting-edge, thinner optical fibres combined with flexible joints and other improvements.

    The technology advance, which allows the system to bypass the ageing Telstra copper wire network from the node to the home, was tested in two Victorian sites: Ballarat (July 7, 2014 to December 1, 2015) and the south-east Melbourne suburban site of Karingal (July 14, 2014 to December 1 2015).

    The results of that double trial are set out in the commericial-in-confidence document, "CTO Briefing: Multi Technology - Local Fibre Network (MT-LFN)".

    Its apparent success suggests that, at the same time as some construction costs of the federal government's cut-price fibre-to-the-node (FTTN) model have increased, according to a separate internal NBN Co assessment revealed exclusively by Fairfax Media on Monday, the costs of the alternative fibre-to-the-premises (FTTP) option preferred by the previous Labor government, may be coming down.

    Although the company expects that FTTN will always be cheaper and faster to roll out as well.

    A well placed source in the company said that a reduction in cost-per-connection, as a result of improved technology, had always been expected as the giant project proceeded.

    However, the trial suggests the savings could be significant, with a fall in the construction cost per-premises of the new approach from the current price of just over $1200 to around half that at just above $600.00

    .

  • The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to mtv For This Useful Post:

    Guiseppe (03-03-16),SpankedHam (03-03-16),tristen (03-03-16)

  • #114
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    1,265
    Thanks
    139
    Thanked 643 Times in 368 Posts
    Rep Power
    454
    Reputation
    10815

    Default

    It really makes me wonder just how much longer the Libs are actually going to be able to keep a straight face. Sooner or later one of them is going to crack and double over laughing at the sheer scale of the joke they have lumped us with. Even the most strident copper-reuse proponent would have to be privately questioning their own sanity by now.

  • #115
    Premium Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Central Tablelands of NSW
    Age
    81
    Posts
    13,824
    Thanks
    1,242
    Thanked 3,806 Times in 2,525 Posts
    Rep Power
    1797
    Reputation
    56986

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SpankedHam View Post
    It really makes me wonder just how much longer the Libs are actually going to be able to keep a straight face. Sooner or later one of them is going to crack and double over laughing at the sheer scale of the joke they have lumped us with. Even the most strident copper-reuse proponent would have to be privately questioning their own sanity by now.
    Unfortunately any good Politician will be quite able to stand and look you in the eye and using the mantra of 'FTTN is Cheaper and Faster to Install' most likely will add 'That was based on the Information available using the best industry practices at the time'.

    Using FTTN is rather like using retreads on your vehicle instead of buying new because they are cheaper and will do the job but not as good as new ones will do.
    I stand unequivicably behind everything I say , I just dont ever remember saying it !!

  • #116
    Premium Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    3,688
    Thanks
    1,938
    Thanked 2,104 Times in 1,050 Posts
    Rep Power
    967
    Reputation
    32468

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gordon_s1942 View Post
    Unfortunately any good Politician will be quite able to stand and look you in the eye and using the mantra of 'FTTN is Cheaper and Faster to Install' most likely will add 'That was based on the Information available using the best industry practices at the time'.

    Using FTTN is rather like using retreads on your vehicle instead of buying new because they are cheaper and will do the job but not as good as new ones will do.
    Why buy retreads when you can get a new one for the same price??
    There is a fine line between "Hobby" and "Madness"

  • #117
    Administrator
    mtv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    19,893
    Thanks
    7,508
    Thanked 15,066 Times in 6,761 Posts
    Rep Power
    5647
    Reputation
    239305

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by allover View Post
    Why buy retreads when you can get a new one for the same price??
    Actually, in this scenario, new higher-speed rated tyres are even cheaper than retreads!

  • #118
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    1,265
    Thanks
    139
    Thanked 643 Times in 368 Posts
    Rep Power
    454
    Reputation
    10815

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mtv View Post
    Actually, in this scenario, new higher-speed rated tyres are even cheaper than retreads!
    ... and are a 'maintenance free' design that doesn't require weekly attention.

  • #119
    Premium Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Central Tablelands of NSW
    Age
    81
    Posts
    13,824
    Thanks
    1,242
    Thanked 3,806 Times in 2,525 Posts
    Rep Power
    1797
    Reputation
    56986

    Default

    The last time I bought a Retread they were at least 1/3 rd cheaper than new from memory which is what I was basing my comment on.
    This price variance between the 2 today is based more on the retailers not wanting to sell them because of warranty problems to replace them if they fail than anything else.
    Also no matter how well they are made, they are not as good or wear as long as a New Tyre.
    I stand unequivicably behind everything I say , I just dont ever remember saying it !!

  • #120
    Administrator

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Newcastle, Nsw
    Posts
    4,604
    Thanks
    815
    Thanked 2,531 Times in 1,138 Posts
    Rep Power
    1178
    Reputation
    41376

    Default

    Can we please stick to the topic we have seperate section of the forums if ya wanna talk about tyres.

  • Page 6 of 17 FirstFirst 12345678910111213141516 ... LastLast

    Bookmarks

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •