Topfield TRF-7150

[Bobby Slogger]

I thought I would post here in case anyone here has resolved similar issues with this box.

Background:
A Mate of fine told me his STB with HDD had died - couldn't record anymore - disk full message.

I switch the unit on and heard the tell-tale clicking sounds so replaced the 500GB sata disk. Put the new one in and the device has a HDD not found message. Easy I thought - must need pre-formatting to NTFS. Tried that - nothing. Tried ext 2 - Nothing. Tried ex Fat - nothing although it did eventually see it but show that the HDD was full even though it was empty.

I decided to measure the voltage out of the PSU as I had read the caps were pretty low quality. I started measuring the caps and the first 2 were greater than 10% tolerance so I decided to replace all 18. Prior to replacing I had measured the voltage on the output connector and it was meeting the stated voltages but the voltages on the output of the Molex had the 5v down to 4.3 and the 12v right on the money.

I eventually rigged up my own cable (noting that the cable assignments on a Topfield are different to the norm - otherwise you fry your HDD). The voltages now seem correct.

However- I'm still not having any luck getting the HDD to work. Curiously - the unit struggles to detect a USB at the front and even though it is FAT formatted, I keep getting a message that only FAT USBs are supported.

Any ideas (apart from throwing out as I hate sending stuff to landfill)? My only thought was to apply some hot air to see if that helps reseat components.

BS

[tristen]

I completely agree with your sentiments regarding landfill.

In the past, some STB/DVR's required the use of a particular brand and model hard drive and therefore did not recognise a "foreign" unit (or one of different capacity), i.e. the replacement HDD must be of the same brand, model etc.

Also, many units have utilised a proprietary formatting procedure and also use a proprietary (in-house) recording format.

I do not know if this applies to the unit in question, but it's worth considering.

Edit:

Additionally, FAT is not FAT, i.e. there are a number of FAT formats, so it's quite conceivable that an HDD formatted on a computer (if that is what you have attempted) will not be read in a PVR.

For more information regarding FAT see e.g. .

An owner's manual for the Topfield TRF-7150 can be downloaded from .

[Bobby Slogger]

Thanks Tristen.

The original drive was a Seagate and the replacement is also a Seagate - obviously a newer version but both at 7200 and both with the same voltage requirements.

The forums and info from topfield don't state the need to pre-format an internal HDD and I suspect the reason I can't see it is the same reason as to why I can't see the front USB - I suspect there is an issue somewhere around where the data cable connects from the board to the HDD.

Will keep trying tonight. Thanks for the links.

BS

[tw2005]

I wonder if you deleted all partitions and left it RAW if that would do anything? I've done a 7000, don't recall any dramas either

[Bobby Slogger]

tried leaving it Raw as well - no luck.

Read on one of the UL based forums that on the 5800 series, no HDD indicated an issue with the component labelled U51. As this is a differnet model, I can't find the corresponding component. I think the issue is with the Sata cable (and not power as there is 5V going to the unit).

Will keep searching.... All advice appreciated.

BS

[Gitch]

Clutching at straws, as I can't remember if it was actually my old Topfield that I did a HDD change in... But, as part of the process I had to reload the firmware - from memory it was to re-initalize the serial number of the HDD in the firmware. It was ages ago, and I think I had to do a forced firmware upgrade (i.e. not through the menu) as it was the only way to replace the whole firmware with a clean copy. Search back through my old post as I am 99% sure I posted how to reload the firmware from a bricked unit to somebody - it could be the same model, I've no idea now.

[tristen]

Firmware for the TRF-7150 can be found at .

[Bobby Slogger]

I managed to get the firmware from Topfield and have the March 2011 version (although the filename says Feb 14). You need to reboot the machine when you plug a USB in.

I went out and got some new SATA and power cables. Will rewire the power cable this weekend and see if that does the trick.

[Bobby Slogger]

just a further update. tried new power and sata cables - still no HDD. I did notice however that the power dipped back to 4.3v. Unplugged it from the HDD and it was back at 5v. Am now thinking that the new HDD may not be compatible even though it is a Seagate as per the old one. Could this drop the voltage enough for it not to run?

[tristen]

I'm rather puzzled about some of the things you have stated in your various posts.

...I think the issue is with the Sata cable (and not power as there is 5V going to the unit)...

What about the 12 volt rail? HDD's require supplies of 5 AND 12 volts.

Ahah! I see that you say "and the 12v right on the money" (post #1).

I suggest that it is time to go back to basics...

1/. With the HDD disconnected, load the PSU with suitable value resistors to approximate the current drain imposed by a typical hard drive. Do this to the 5 volt rail and also with the 12 volt supply rail (simultaneously).

2/. If the voltages hold up and there is negligible ripple evident, it is fairly safe to assume that the 5 and 12 volt rails of the power supply are O.K.

N.B. Faulty PSU filter capacitors can cause other components, e.g. resistors, voltage regulators, zener and other diodes to fail also.

(Are other power supply voltages correct, i.e. are there any markings on PCB's to indicate what voltages should be and are they as indicated?)

...I switch the unit on and heard the tell-tale clicking sounds so replaced the 500GB sata disk.

3/. Hard drives often make what some describe as "clicking", referring to the noise heard when an hard drive makes repeated "seeks" in an effort to read sectors which are unreadable for some reason or other.

4/. Did you connect the original HDD to another unit, e.g. computer in order to check it?

While connected to a computer, running suitable hard drive diagnostics can reveal existing problems.

Re-partitioning and formatting such an hard drive can often make it usable. In such case run suitable HDD diagnostics over an extended period in order to check the HDD's integrity.

In posts #1, #8 and #9 you refer to the HDD cables.

5/. What was wrong with the original cables to cause you to "rig" your own (post #1)?

If you ascertained that there was nothing wrong, why have you subsequently replaced said cables (posts #8 and #9)?

...The forums and info from topfield don't state the need to pre-format an internal HDD and I suspect the reason I can't see it is the same reason as to why I can't see the front USB - I suspect there is an issue somewhere around where the data cable connects from the board to the HDD...

USB has nothing to do with the on-board SATA hard drive and vice versa.

... I did notice however that the power dipped back to 4.3v. Unplugged it from the HDD and it was back at 5v.

6/. Are you sure that your "rigging" in post #1 did not damage the new HDD?

7/. Are you sure that your "rigging" in post #1 did not damage the PSU?

8/. Have you tried this HDD in another unit in order to check it?

... Am now thinking that the new HDD may not be compatible even though it is a Seagate as per the old one. Could this drop the voltage enough for it not to run?

Maybe it is not compatible.

Posting the model number of both the original and replacement hard drives will enable us to comment regarding compatibility.

[Bobby Slogger]

Thanks for the suggestions Tristen.

I haven't got time today (will try tomorrow) but as a summary to your points here is what I have done:

1) Will do this hopefully tomorrow
2) as per 1 (also all capacitors on PSU have been replaced)
3) Brand new drive - no clicking (old drive did click thus why the replacement)
4) Yes - works via a USB caddy on a laptop
5) The connections felt a little bit loose and had read online several people experiencing issues with PSU and HDD cables. Solved the USB issue - that's all good now
6) No damage as I can see drive in laptop - I am aware that they reverse the 5v and 12 v assignment on the MB
7) The unit still boots up and the outputs on the multi connector on the PSU all match the designated values printed on the side
8) I don't have another unit to check- I have this as a project and I enjoy the challenge

The drive is a

Seagate 3.5" Barracuda 500GB ST500DM002 SATA3 7200RPM 16MB HDD

BS

[joezep]

According to Topfield they recommend an AV HDD or you might have power problems as you are having. Don't know how old the article is or if it effects your unit. All is explained in the link below.

[tw2005]

do you have an external 5v source you could drive the 5v rail with and see if that does anything. I would think 4.3v is low, probably want it to hold at 4.8V at least.

[Bobby Slogger]

Managed to hook up an external supply and the HDD works. I started checking the continuity and managed to find the ferrite beads (really need to start using magnifying glass). of the 7, one was shorted - FB7 or at least was not supplying continuity.


Now to find a small SMD ferrite bead.

[tw2005]

Managed to hook up an external supply and the HDD works. I started checking the continuity and managed to find the ferrite beads (really need to start using magnifying glass). of the 7, one was shorted - FB7 or at least was not supplying continuity.


Now to find a small SMD ferrite bead.

Nice, some progress. probably means ye old HDD could be OK? Could the ferrite bead just be jumpered if it's open as a fix?

[Bobby Slogger]

time for another update.

Received the Ferrite Bead and did some SMD work. Yes - the unit powers up and finds the HDD. It asks me to format and it flashes that formatting is complete after only 1 second.

If I then go to record, it tells me that there is insufficient space, even though the drive is empty.

This box is frustrating me.

[BCNZ]

They don't make these boxes easy. I agree with everything that's been said so far regarding drive size, type, manufacturer, format type and serial number,
which some manufacturers program the firmware to look for on start-up.
A means of stopping people from replacing the drive (especially with a larger one).
They want you to buy another unit!

As for Seagate drives, don't expect them to last. As an IT tech, I replace more Seagate drives than I care to think about. They're woefully
unreliable.

One thing that could be worthwhile is using a program like Parted Magic to determine what formatting the old drive had.
That's if you can get it to spin up and be recognised in a PC.

[Bobby Slogger]

All fixed (finally).

Once I got the power back up to 5volts, the new Seagate would not work in the pvr. Tried Disk part but nothing. Went and got another HDD and presto. Box works.

It's now good for another 5 years (or until the caps dry out again) and then I can do it all over again.

It was worth the exercise - helped me understand a bit more on how they work.

Thank you all for your advice.

Now - to work on a 110V DeWalt Drill battery charger from the US.......

[Jason Ibrahim]

All fixed (finally).

Once I got the power back up to 5volts, the new Seagate would not work in the pvr. Tried Disk part but nothing. Went and got another HDD and presto. Box works.

It's now good for another 5 years (or until the caps dry out again) and then I can do it all over again.

It was worth the exercise - helped me understand a bit more on how they work.

Thank you all for your advice.

Now - to work on a 110V DeWalt Drill battery charger from the US.......

Hi Bobby,
I am having a similar problem with my Topfeild TRF-7150.
My problem is similar but intermittent.
My original 500GB hard drive tests fine and I can confirm it is okay after running multiple tests with it from a PC.
Also using a standard multimeter, the 5V and 12V to the HDD measure perfect from the Topfield's power supply and at the HDD.
The problem is that if I leave the unit running for a while, especially in time shift mode or recording, the unit freezes on the channel its on and the hard drive becomes silent and I cant control anything, even with the remote control or the machines from panel, until I restart / repower the machine. After which it scans the HDD again and all is well for a little while again.
Note I have absolutely no problems with the unit if the HHD is disconnected. It's only when the hard disk is connected it will become problematic after a period of time. Note I still have the same problem when I have tested other similar hard drives in the unit.

I suspect that there might be a small power dip for a fraction of a second causing the hard drive to malfunction and in tern freeze the unit. (I don't have access to an oscilloscope to monitor this). When I restart the unit it scans the disk again and works fine until the machine decides to freeze again after a while.

Bobby, from your experience, which components do you think I need to replace please?

[tristen]

....
The problem is that if I leave the unit running for a while, especially in time shift mode or recording, the unit freezes on the channel its on and the hard drive becomes silent and I cant control anything, even with the remote control or the machines from panel, until I restart / repower the machine. After which it scans the HDD again and all is well for a little while again.
Note I have absolutely no problems with the unit if the HHD is disconnected. It's only when the hard disk is connected it will become problematic after a period of time. Note I still have the same problem when I have tested other similar hard drives in the unit.....

Your description suggests that the problem could be heat related.

1/. Check all electrolytic capacitors in the power supply (PSU) to see if any are bulging. If so, replace them with low ESR type.

2/. The hard drive could be drawing excessive current after being on for a while.