Nine HD in 2016 plus new Lifestyle Channel

[gordon_s1942]

It makes me wonder how this shemozzle came about when I presume the Broadcasters sat down with the Regulators to set the 'Standards', what were they drinking as they decided?
I dont care who the Government were at the time but its been shown many times that while Politicians enact the Laws, most have no idea when it comes down to technicalities.
From this current mess, it appears those in Power now are no better than those who were which doesnt suprise me one bit.

[Escape_from_Oz]

I think 10 since Murdoch junior control has gone so far backwards its not funny, obviously daddy was upset that ONE HD was a sports focused HD channel that was in competition against Fox Sports and well we cant have that because you know all the BS that happens.

I hardly watch anything that Ten does, and looking at ratings not many others do, I mean when your within 5% points of ABC it really says a lot about the incompetent management and some of the most stupid programming ever seen well since last time Murdoch owned Ten going back into the late 70's and early 80's, Murdoch had to sell Ten (and he also sold WIN to Bruce Gordon and that has come back to bite Nine and Ten in the backside with Southern Cross Broadcasting/ Austereo caught up in that fight as Nine Ent Co and WIN are not on good terms right now) to another dufus in Frank Lowe and Westfields Group who did nothing with it and almost bankrupted Ten which saw the Canadians buy it only to have the most awful restrictions ever placed on a media company ever seen, it still amazing that CanWest made any money from Ten, then Ten gets a few former Packer management (as did Seven) and all of a sudden they started to make money which was followed by ratings and they were the first to jump in to Digital broadcasting only for as I said above Murdoch to get really pissed off and get Packer Jnr to loan Murdoch junior the money to buy into Ten and take control by forcing out the management which turned Ten around ...

I kid you not that is what basically happened.

As for Seven heavily promoting 7 Sport in HD on 7mate, thats getting everyone ready for the return of CH 77, again Kerry Stokes and his management team are actually very smart and they saw MPEG4 as the future way back in like 2008 which is when everything was fast tracked for multi-channels to be allowed to do sports broadcasting, 10 went with ONE HD as a full on sports channels, 7 went with Mate as a channel which have sport and other content and Nine well Nine at the time were loosing so much money as Packer Jnr was selling his media and publication interests to fund his casinos and we ended up with GEM which eventually had sports content on it.

So I'll say it:
Seven will end Seven SD MPEG2 and make Seven HD MPEG as its only remaining MPEG2 channel while 7mate, 7two will go HD MPEG4 while 4ME and Racing (which btw also has a limited license deal with 7 until March 2016) will become MPEG4 SD channels, they have enough total bitrate if they go down this road

23.5Mbits
Seven HD (MPEG2 1440x1080i) 8.5Mbits
7two HD (MPEG4 1280x720p) 3.5Mbits
7mate HD (MPE4 1280x720p) 3.5Mbits
4ME SD (MPEG4 480x576i) 2.5Mbits
Racing SD (480x576i) 2.5Mbits

leaving 3Mbits for EPG stream, teletext, PID NIT scan and audio.

I mentioned above that those without MPEG4 devices is around 5% of the population, if Ten followed suit then people would quickly upgrade to MPEG4 devices, again all freeview devices are MPEG4 and nearly 100% compatible and even those that are not are probably 98% so it has to happen.

Nine in the meantime back themselves into a corner by jumping early.

[gordon_s1942]

Australia is a very small Pond populated by Fish who think they are 10 times bigger than they are and all trying to eat out of a plate smaller than their IQ's.
FREEVIEW, which is the Conglomorate of the FTA Broadcasters, only seemed to be interested in getting a fee from Manufactures to carry their logo, forgot to tell Joe Public that at a future date, formats like MPEG4, Data Casting were projected to be introduced and advising users to see what ever they bought complied with these standards to future proof their purchase.
Their advertising was such that it was considered misleading and had to be taken off air.
The Retailers in the mean time didnt give 2 hoots what they sold when they persisted in marketing both STB's and TV's with SD Tuners only, even after the current channel arrangement was known to put HD 'elsewhere'.

I have to say in my ignorance, in the last 4 years I have bought 4 TV's and not one of them is MPEG 4 compliant and I never checked because I neither saw or heard any details of its introduction right up until Racing DOT Com started and I try to keep informed about whats going on about me.

[peteramjet]

I mentioned above that those without MPEG4 devices is around 5% of the population...

Do you have any offical stats to back that claim, as my experiences would suggest it is closer to 25% without MPEG-4, possibly more. This is based in the number of calls I've had from friends/co-workers/relatives since the 26/11 wondering what they can't get 9HD after a rescan - and it's because their sets/boxes aren't MPEG-4 compatible. Most of these people won't go and by a new set or STB, they will just do without the channel.

Considering how many cheaper/junkier sets have been sold through retailers and supermarkets without MPEG-4 compatibility over the last number of years, broadcasters would be mad to switch their main channels soley to a format such so many people still can't watch.

[Escape_from_Oz]

Australia is a very small Pond populated by Fish who think they are 10 times bigger than they are and all trying to eat out of a plate smaller than their IQ's.
FREEVIEW, which is the Conglomorate of the FTA Broadcasters, only seemed to be interested in getting a fee from Manufactures to carry their logo, forgot to tell Joe Public that at a future date, formats like MPEG4, Data Casting were projected to be introduced and advising users to see what ever they bought complied with these standards to future proof their purchase.
Their advertising was such that it was considered misleading and had to be taken off air.
The Retailers in the mean time didnt give 2 hoots what they sold when they persisted in marketing both STB's and TV's with SD Tuners only, even after the current channel arrangement was known to put HD 'elsewhere'.

I have to say in my ignorance, in the last 4 years I have bought 4 TV's and not one of them is MPEG 4 compliant and I never checked because I neither saw or heard any details of its introduction right up until Racing DOT Com started and I try to keep informed about whats going on about me.

The key is research.

I have a 2 analogue TV (Panasonic 68cm) which are still very much in service and provide about as good a picture as you can get from CRT and accept RGB input (so max is 576p), I have purchased 2 STRONG HD set top boxes, these STRONG boxes do RGB output and also allow the user to control what level of PQ, in my case I set the boxes to 576p.

They do both DVB-T MPEG2 and DVB-T MPEG4 with ease so they are future proof.

They also have DIVX/XVID (MPEG4 h263), they also do VP60, VP70, VP8, VP9, MKV (MPEG4), also do WINDOWS MEDIA VIDEO V7/V8/V9 (which are h263) and who the hell uses WMV format for anything these days unless they encrypt (Digital Media Rights) the file, and if course it also does MPEG4 (part 10) basically these little stu's will play nearly everything barring 2K and 4K resolution content, audio wise they will easily do MP3, AAC, WMV, PCM (WAV) FLAC and even does of all things ogg format.

Also they provide PVR functions by connecting an external USB Mass Storage device and will record at the native input from the ariel signal with no encryption so they can be and then the box will either upscale or downscale.

They also can be made "on-line" by connecting an Ethernet line from a router to them so they can also do DLNA streaming and if the router has internet connectivity you can go online and get YouTube, DailyMotion and Netflix and Ustream.

Cost of each box? $49 each from retailer. For $99 these two Panasonic CRT analogue TV's have been saved for the trash heap, again research is the key, yes I know people are lazy or simply do not know where to start but they also can't complain that they are missing out when the options are there for them to be updated and future proof for at least the next 3 to 5 years.

[Escape_from_Oz]

Do you have any offical stats to back that claim, as my experiences would suggest it is closer to 25% without MPEG-4, possibly more. This is based in the number of calls I've had from friends/co-workers/relatives since the 26/11 wondering what they can't get 9HD after a rescan - and it's because their sets/boxes aren't MPEG-4 compatible. Most of these people won't go and by a new set or STB, they will just do without the channel.

Considering how many cheaper/junkier sets have been sold through retailers and supermarkets without MPEG-4 compatibility over the last number of years, broadcasters would be mad to switch their main channels soley to a format such so many people still can't watch.

Primary TV sets, the Government claimed 98% are SD/HD (MPEG2) and those that are MPEG4 would be at least 95%. They would not have changed the rules regarding primary TV channel being SD MPEG2 only and from January 1 2016 allow primary channel being HD based as long as its minimum MPEG2.

[Antennaman]

and those that are MPEG4 would be at least 95%.

With all due respect, I don't accept that.

Based on the 20-30 sets (& I am talking purely TVs, or the occasional CRT with an old STB attached) that I retune on a weekly basis, I would say around half are not MPEG4 compliant.



(I also find the claim that over 3 million people in Australia listen to DAB+ equally hard to swallow.)

[TVguy]

The key is research.

The key to???

They also have DIVX/XVID (MPEG4 h263), they also do VP60, VP70, VP8, VP9, MKV (MPEG4)...

Who cares about local playback capabilities in the ephemeral world of CODECS and containers? We are talking about broadcasting; with "BROAD" being the KEY.

...yes I know people are lazy or simply do not know where to start but they also can't complain that they are missing out when the options are there for them to be updated and future proof for at least the next 3 to 5 years.

Yet these "LAZY PEOPLE" should bend to your will and see the clarity of your vision? A utopia where a unilateral decree renders functional hardware obsolete.

..the Government claimed 98% are SD/HD (MPEG2) and those that are MPEG4 would be at least 95%. They would not have changed the rules regarding primary TV channel being SD MPEG2 only and from January 1 2016 allow primary channel being HD based as long as its minimum MPEG2.

Such trust is admirable. "Statistics" like these are gleaned from sales volumes and extrapolated to being representative of an "Average Household". Phone polling assumes the respondent speaks English and is willing to participate in the poll; the results are self-selecting.

...and those that are MPEG4 would be at least 95%...
With all due respect, I don't accept that.

I, similarly do not accept this assertion.

...I would say around half are not MPEG4 compliant.

Feedback from internal statistics at my work (a major manufacturer) reflect this empirical observation.

[Escape_from_Oz]

secondary devices, that could mean anything from:

- PVR/DVR devices like TiVO, Fetch, Foxtel, Telstra TV, Bigpond TV
- HD Set Top Units from 2009 onwards like all the ones that are freeview complaint, various HD set top unit like Topfield, UEC, Strong, Dick Smith, AWA

Primary devices are TV's.

The governments own review showed 98%, the switch off of analogue was fully done by December 2013, its now November 2015, so two years just how many don't get HD? 2%.

Of those that get HD only 5% are not MPEG4, the research came from Seven West Media in there submission to the Government to switch off primary SD, 5% of 7,000,000 homes is 350,000, again of these 350,000 homes they would primarily be region based getting crappy reception because they don't know they can get VAST.

Now if you told me the % rate was 15% of more then yes I would agree not a good idea but at 5% mostly regional I don't think 7 would worry to much if they go primary HD MPEG2 and the secondary multi-channels HD MPEG4, remember 7 have been wanting to do this since at least 2009 and have done testing with Bright Ideas and now Racing and Prime did it with the original TV4ME.

Again Nine jumped early because of the Cricket but at the same time rules are rules and have to continue with Nine SD as MPEG2, if you look closely at the bit rates they are playing a bad game with there multi-channels but I have yet to read an article of someone complaining that the quality has gone to crap with Go and Gem (especially Gem) just yet, so its not a major issues.

[gordon_s1942]

Although a side issue, for those without a MPEG4 compliant TV, 'Streaming' these channels may not be a viable option because of not a having a suitable devise, not using or having available an Internet service to do so or simply dont know how or afford to !!!

Antennaman, the comment made by the other member that DAB+ has 3 Million users could possibly be correct but only for those in Metropolitan areas which leaves some 19 MILLION (what % is that ((My maths are shit?) out of the 22 MILLION population.

Typical of the claims made by the Mobile Phone Carriers they cover 98% of the population but are very vague about the actual coverage AREA !!

[Escape_from_Oz]

without getting off topic:

Oztowers.com is a great resource to view how many base stations and what frequency they operate. example: While Telstra has a larger base station count in terms of 4G its split between 1800 & 700 and Optus have way more 700 4G in current use but of course are limited with there 4G 1800 to metro and a handfull of regional zones where they can get apparatus licenses use for 1800Mhz frequency.

The issue with DAB+ is range and the fact that Fm serious while not being that efficient works very well.

[mandc]

The issue with DAB+ is range and the fact that Fm serious while not being that efficient works very well.

The issue with DAB+ is the same as digital TV. They have dropped the bitrate to such a low setting to cram in more stations so that the quality is no better than FM and often worse so no wonder the uptake is low and I think even lower than the 'statistics' show.

[TVguy]

The issue with DAB+ is the same as digital TV. They have dropped the bitrate to such a low setting to cram in more stations so that the quality is no better than FM and often worse so no wonder the uptake is low and I think even lower than the 'statistics' show.

Off thread I know but DAB+ continues to disappoint me. Bit rates as low as 40 kbps (stereo) make even the worst MP3s sound appealing. The only reason I tolerate it is that my workshop has too much EMI for AM reception.
On my main system in the house a Rotel RT-850A outperforms any DAB+ system on FM. I only wish I could lay my hands on a Yamaha TX-1000; I had the pleasure of working on a few of these over the years and their performance is exceptional.

[gordon_s1942]

query removed.

[Escape_from_Oz]

The issue with DAB+ is the same as digital TV. They have dropped the bitrate to such a low setting to cram in more stations so that the quality is no better than FM and often worse so no wonder the uptake is low and I think even lower than the 'statistics' show.

I have access to DAB+ though work car but stick with good ol FM due to range, as for the AM stations going DAB+, there is a reason why only a handful of stations were AM Stereo

[Antennaman]

Off thread I know but DAB+ continues to disappoint me. Bit rates as low as 40 kbps (stereo)

I listen to 2CH when I can, although my ears are shot, it sounds exceptional when compared with the rest. I use a cheap radio, (cost me $29-00 on sale) with headphones.

No idea why 2CH get 128kbps.

[TVguy]

No idea why 2CH get 128kbps.

Go figure; I listen mostly to the ABC and even Triple J only gets 80 kbps! For a music station this makes no sense. 2GB (a talk station) gets 128 kbps and 2UE gets 96 kbps. A complete mystery to me.
I just tried 2CH and even though it's not quite my kind of music, it did sound better than the other music stations.

[Escape_from_Oz]

Go figure; I listen mostly to the ABC and even Triple J only gets 80 kbps! For a music station this makes no sense. 2GB (a talk station) gets 128 kbps and 2UE gets 96 kbps. A complete mystery to me.
I just tried 2CH and even though it's not quite my kind of music, it did sound better than the other music stations.

They pay for the enhanced bitrate.

If you use Tune In radio (via WiFi so you don't burn your mobile data allowance) you will see what the DAB+ channels are streaming at as its the same feed as DAB+.

Back on topic


Seven is making the making the move to HD MPEG2 for Seven with the other channels moving to MPEG4 sometime in January 2016.

[pheggie]

Channel Nine's transmitters are dead in Melbourne around 1.30AM today not a single nine bouquet channel working on all my devices all other channels are working well.

[pheggie]

They all came back again after about 5-10 minutes